Skypiea Arc Lightning Feats

While this discussion was done in the past, i think that it was never properly debated or even ended with a definite debunk or confirm.

So i have decided to rewatch the Skypiea Arc and i have concluded that there where indeed plenty of lightning dodging feats during the arc, too many for be just outliers or a case of inconsistency.

Here all the feats i have found and chronologically listed.

1)Luffy perceive and reactEnel's El Thor whilesaving Conis's life, although the lighting bolt was too big to Luffy to dodge.

2) Luffy perceive and reactEnel's sneak attack from behind while in his Logia Form, aka while he was moving a lightning speed.

3/4) Nami react and dodge Enel's lighting bolts in two different occassions, one where she was kinda off-guardas she hasn't start to fight Enel yet.

While the other case she was usingher knowledge to predit the path of Enel's attack, this doesn't disprove Nami's speed since she would still need to move fast enough to avoid Enel's lighting bolts.

And it is kinda consistent since the Enies Lobby arc we see Nami keep up with Kalifa, who can too react to lighting bolts, even when off-guard.

5/6) Zoro and company react and dodge amassive lighting bolt coming from Enel's Raigo.

And again Zoro do the same thing in the very next chapter, specifically in the middle of the scan where Zoro say Wow!.

7) Luffy react and block a lighting bolt coming from Enel's Raigo, while he had the giant ball of gold in one of his arm.

While i haven't done any math, most of this feats would still requid High Hypersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic speed for be performed, way above the current Hypersonic speed for Skypiea Arc characters (which come from feat done with ease by Yama, someone of a fodder in the Arc).

And before someone bring in the argument, Enel be faster than anyone else in the Arc (in his Logia Form) doesn't debunk anything, you don't need to move as fast as lightning to dodge lightning.

Even the lowest lighting dodging/reacting feats i know in the site, the one of Revolver Ocelot im MG3, was calculated to be Hypersonic+, where lightning speed is Massively Hypersonic+.

This definitely looks intriguing

bump

I actually meant that you should ask in the discussion thread for the series, but I've asked there already.

I feel some can be debunked as aimdodging but overall id like to see this looked into

Dodging and reacting to lightning is nothing impressive unless we actually see it frame-to-frame that each character dodges lightning point-blank (as in less than a meter away). The only one to react even close to this extent was Kalifa of CP9.

Also, how many times must I debunk this argument? 1 = Luffy wasn't able to dodge it in the first place and only moved x meters when the lightning bolt traveled dozens to hundreds of meters at the same time. 2 = Luffy wasn't the one to even notice it, and he only saw Enel after he had traveled dozens of meters to get behind him. Not even Hypersonic reaction speeds at that point. 3 = Aimdodging. And even if it isn't, she was still over a dozen meters away and only moved around a meter in the same time-frame. Questionably High Hypersonic at most, if not for the aimdodge argument. 4 = She was anticipating where it was going and altered its patch preemptively. This is even brought up. 5 = Same as case #1. They moved x meters in the time it took cloud-to-ground lightning to hit. 6 = Same as case #1 and 5. 7= Same as cases #1, 5, and 6. There's not even a time-frame established, so you can't exactly make an argument here for Luffy matching the bolt.

I'm done here. L8er.

CinCameron20 said:

Dodging and reacting to lightning is nothing impressive unless we actually see it frame-to-frame that each character dodges lightning point-blank (as in less than a meter away). The only one to react even close to this extent was Kalifa of CP9.

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That nonsense, a lot of lightning dodging feats in this site do not involve neither dodging lightning at point-blank and/or having be show frame-to-frame and they were still accepted.

Marth didn't dodge the lightning bolt at point blank, but the feat is still accepted.

Meliodas didn't redirect the the lightning bolt at point blank, but the feat is still accepted.

Or what about Pokemon put at Massively Hypersonic+ because they can react Magnemites's lightning attacks, regaldess of the fact that in any battle the Pokemons are put in front of each others from a few meters away, by your logic that scaling should be unvalid.

And about frame-to-frame, that untrue since most feats listed are show in frame-to-frame, just look at the first lightning dodging feat of Luffy try to save Conis, the feat didn't happen in just one panel.

CinCameron20 said:

1 = Luffy wasn't able to dodge it in the first place and only moved x meters when the lightning bolt traveled dozens to hundreds of meters at the same time.

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The only reason of that was because the lightning bolt was too massive, he had still perceive it and even moved a little before it could hit the surface.

If the lightning bolt was a standard one, then he would had dodge it without trouble.

CinCameron20 said:

2 = Luffy wasn't the one to even notice it, and he only saw Enel after he had traveled dozens of meters to get behind him. Not even Hypersonic reaction speeds at that point.

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And what about the part where Luffy turns himself to avoid and block Enel's staff from hit him while the latter was still in his Logia Form?

CinCameron20 said:

3 = Aimdodging. And even if it isn't, she was still over a dozen meters away and only moved around a meter in the same time-frame. Questionably High Hypersonic at most, if not for the aimdodge argument.

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Dodge a lightning bolt from a dozen meters away would still requid speed much greater than Hypersonic speed, and i'm quite sure that the distance between Enel and Nami is less than 10 meters.

And this isn't aim dodging either, Nami hasn't start to move until Enel fired the lightning bolt and she hasn't start to fight and/or anticipate Enel's attacks, so no it was a valid feat.

CinCameron20 said:

4 = She was anticipating where it was going and altered its patch preemptively. This is even brought up.

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She would still need to move fast enough to redirect the lightning bolt, just because she knew the paths of the attacks it doesn't mean that she can react them in time.

She doesn't have precognition via Haki and even that she would still need to move fast enough to block the lightning bolt.

Or then Rayleigh's feat of stopping Kizaru in the middle of executing his light-movement ability should be invalid as well, since Rayleigh knew there Kizaru was going.

CinCameron20 said:

5 = Same as case #1. They moved x meters in the time it took cloud-to-ground lightning to hit. 6 = Same as case #1 and 5.

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You only explain the feats, you haven't give a reason why they shouldn't be valid, say the feats are cloud-to-ground lightning mean nothing.

CinCameron20 said:

7= Same as cases #1, 5, and 6. There's not even a time-frame established, so you can't exactly make an argument here for Luffy matching the bolt.

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Never say Luffy was moving as fast as the lightning bolt, only that he moved fast as enough to block and redirect the lightning bolt, which would requid speeds higher than Hypersonic.

It's clear you're ignoring me at this point (Again).

You're pulling lightning dodging feats from VERY different sources. Not to mention, I literally said "Dodging and reacting to lightning is nothing impressive unless we actually see it frame-to-frame that each character dodges lightning point-blank (as in less than a meter away). The only one to react even close to this extent was Kalifa of CP9." Dodging lighting can be literally anything. ANYTHING in terms of speed. Sub-sonic to FTL depending on the time-frame/distance traveled. A lot of our lightning dodging feats have characters moving about 1 meters in the time it takes lightning to travel 200. That's Hypersonic, for example. Of course many other cases would be Massively Hypersonic as there are calculations such as Marth dodging lightning from a few meters away. Skypeia has nothing of the sort.

1 = Luffy ran, what, a few meters in the time for the lightning to travel from cloud-to-ground, which is a vastly larger distance in comparison. That's the point I'm making. It would still be low results. Can't even calc it because there's no clear time-frame.

2 = No established time-frame, and besides, Luffy barely moved a few centimeters by the time Enel reached him.

3 = Like I literally said first: "Aim-dodging", and the bolt was already well past Nami's original location by the time we see her move. Enel showed a single spark, and Nami instinctively moved

4 = She doesn't need to move fast enough if she is moving BEFORE the bolt is even discharged... Unfortunately, looking at the scans, there's no way to argue one way or the other. Undefined. Therefore unable to be discussed.

5/6 = Uh, Cloud-to-ground can be hundreds to thousands of meters. They moved up to 4 meters in the time-frame. That can be Supersonic to Supersonic+ on a low-end scale.

7 = All he has to do is touch the bolt to deflect it. His rubber body absolutely negates the electricity from that Logia. Same as case 5/6.

If you are still persisting after this, you're not paying attention to the points I am trying to make.

I'm finished with this discussion. No upgrade in speed.