- 33,405
- 8,417
And with this, either Lucemon dies or they tie...
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
YHVH vs Lucemon
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
- Start date
- Status
- 4,178
- 1,471
This is weird, YHVH has no Acausality in his profile...
- 33,405
- 8,417
That should have longed been added. I made the thread for that...Matt just never performed changes. He's been too busy downgrading shit. ovo
- 40,457
- 12,924
There. Done.
- 33,405
- 8,417
Well, at least I can say that if Lucemon loses, at least it took YHVH to actually work his ass off to do so...Cal lacks that luxury, so that's a plus and a win in my book.
- 10,687
- 6,334
No matter what way I look at it, I can't help but think they just took Mr.Clean head and fused it with that of a goblin and just dipped that shit in some yellow paint.
- 32,344
- 20,269
I am typing a giant post. With links and proof.
- 33,405
- 8,417
Cool...but for what? Also YHVH for Matt's reasons below.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 40,457
- 12,924
YHVH is an anagram. It stands for YMatt Hfor Vreasons Hbelow
ovo
I...I'm sorry for that. I'll leave now...
ovo
I...I'm sorry for that. I'll leave now...
- 33,405
- 8,417
You deserve 7777 Voice of Gods and Phantom Pains for that.The real cal howard said:
- 40,457
- 12,924
I deserve 70*7 Voice of Gods and 666 Phantom Pains ovo
- 33,405
- 8,417
That's in addition to the other 7777 you get before hand.The real cal howard said:
- 4,178
- 1,471
bald power
- 33,405
- 8,417
Now while we wait for Matt to tell us why Mr.Clean wins, who wants cake?
At least I won't die like that Llama.
At least I won't die like that Llama.
- 33,405
- 8,417
- 10,687
- 6,334
I have other ideas.Dragonmasterxyz said:
- 4,178
- 1,471
- 32,344
- 20,269
Short Answer:
So, remember how it is a literally universal agreement here that Lucifer = Lucemon? Lucifer is a mere discarded fragment of YHVH which is played by him like a fiddle. Lucemon loses.
Long Answer:
So, let's talk powerscaling for a bit.
First we have Kagutsuchi who maintains a multiverse with infinite universes, of which billions are created every second, and every universe has an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth; rinse repeat. Furthermore, Kagutsuchi maintains the Universe's Sangai, which is a Buddhist concept for the three aspects of time - Past, present and future.
So he is simultaneously in all points of time maintaining the existence of infinite universes, each of which have infinite iterations due to their cycle of conception.
Also, in the Vortex Worlds which is where the conception occurs, the "Demon World" and "God World" which exist in parallel to the real world, are merged with it.
If you are keeping count. That is (infinite universes * 3 ) * infinite iterations of each of these.
And what happens when the Demi-Fiend kills Kagutsuchi? The multiverse, alongside the very concept of time, freaking dies.
Other Avatars which should be at least comparable to Kagutsuchi are Elohim, Shaddai, Sabaoth, and the Ancient of Days.
Then there is Metatron, who is in the same game recognized as explicitly above Kagutsuchi, as it is "The strongest warrior of light". And its mere voice is compared to the Amala Universe, which is the infinite multiverse that Kagutsuchi maintains.
This same Metatron is held up as pathetic by the Demiurge, another Avatar of YHVH. To the point where Metatron is described as YHVH's mind and the Demiurge as YHVH's power in the same game.
Which brings me to the Mother Goddesses, which sealed Metatron and Demiurge in the first place after YHVH was split.
The Mother Goddesses include Ouroboros Maia, Tiamat, Maya, Kali Ma, Anahita & Maria (I think), and potentially Amaterasu and Mother Harlot.
Of this it is worth pointing out that Mother Harlot is generally considered to be the most powerful of the Fiends. Who are Lucifer's enforcers.
And Ouroboros, the first Mother you fight in the game, is the embodiment of Infinity & Eternity, making it a Kagutsuchi-level entity.
All the Mothers are aspects of Mem Aleph, the Primordial and Archetypal Earth Mother Goddess.
Why is all of this important. Well, after you defeat the Demiurge in Strange Journey, if you are allied with Law it will absorb Metatro, and will claim it regained a portion of the Creator's power and it won't be long til it returns to its "True Form, full of Light"...
But if you are allied with Chaos, a Female Voice (Almost undobtedly Mem Aleph) intervenes and seals this empowered Demiurge casually.
This same Mem Aleph, btw, is comparable to the Shekinah, another Avatar of YHVH. Namely, its female aspect.
Lucifer is more powerful than Mem Aleph, as it is outright stated to be the "Strongest power of Darkness", and the Embodiment of all Chaos, and Mem Aleph is a Chaos-aligned deity. However, Lucifer outright states that he is nothing but an aspect of YHVH as well.
He also dismisses the Demiurge as worthless, "a mere Godly Spirit".
Indeed, if Lucifer is the Embodiment of all Chaos, then YHVH is the Embodiment of all Law:
In fact, everything is a part of YHVH, as all Creation is a manifestation of the Creator.
Here's a transcript of a scene from SMT II (Couldn't find it on Youtube):
Zayin: Why...me...To save the people...to save as many as possible...isn't this what God wanted...? Where...is God? Is he nowhere to be found...? Or is this...his will...? The center abandoned those that believed in God and worked for his sake...the Elders...Did God choose them...and abandon me...? God...
Voice: There is no God!
Zayin: !? Who's there!?
Voice: If God will not interfere no matter what happens to you, then God will not interfere no matter what you do, either.
Zayin: !?
Voice: Don't force yourself to obey. Were you not born in the name of God?
Zayin: ...Well...
Voice: By definition, is not whatever you do God's will?
Zayin: ...Whatever I do...
Voice: Do not try to obey something. Do not try to obey someone. Do not think of God as having just one face. God is not good. God is everything. Everything is God. You too can become a face of God.
Zayin: Become...a face of God...
Voice: You are not one to be judged and punished. You are the ultimate Temple Knight. As the one closest to God, obey his commands and become the one to mete out the judgment and punishment.
Zayin: The judge...and punisher...
Voice: Fulfill your role, as the one closer to God, closer than the Center and closer than the Elders.
Zayin: My...role...Punisher in God's stead...
Also stated by YHVH himself.
As further proof of this? Look no further than what YHVH does in SMT Apocalypse: When going through YHVH's Universe, you fight Beelzebub and Lucifuge, and then Lucifer. Stephen explains that as he works through the Observation of humans, YHVH can recreate anything observed by human eyes as many times as he wants.
What is Observatio? Well, to make a long story short, in SMT all reality is subjective and defined entirely by the shared Observation of humans. Humans observe a phenomena, and assign an answer to it, be it scientific or supernatural, and through this Observation it is real. The more something is collectively Observe, the more "real" it is.
For example, let's take the phenomena of rain. People in our modern world will Observe it as a natural phenomena, and explain it scientifically. But in Ancient Greece people would assign Zeus as their answer to it, while in Ancient Scandinavia people would assign Thor as their answer to it. Because of this, rain will be a phenomena that is simultaneously caused by the natural laws of physics, but also by supernatural entities like Zeus and Thor. All are real at the same time, and yet neither are real.
YHVH can control the Observations of humans and use it to his favour.
Oh, and in Apocalypse YHVH also spams infinite Metatrons through the same principle.
I could also talk about YHVH is pretty much nigh-impossible to be killed due to how Observation works. But I think you get the gist of it by now.
There IS a reason why YHVH is considered the undisputed, absolute King of the 2-A Tier and why you should never, never make matches against him. It's not just favoritism and hype. It's fact.
So, remember how it is a literally universal agreement here that Lucifer = Lucemon? Lucifer is a mere discarded fragment of YHVH which is played by him like a fiddle. Lucemon loses.
Long Answer:
So, let's talk powerscaling for a bit.
First we have Kagutsuchi who maintains a multiverse with infinite universes, of which billions are created every second, and every universe has an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth; rinse repeat. Furthermore, Kagutsuchi maintains the Universe's Sangai, which is a Buddhist concept for the three aspects of time - Past, present and future.
So he is simultaneously in all points of time maintaining the existence of infinite universes, each of which have infinite iterations due to their cycle of conception.
Also, in the Vortex Worlds which is where the conception occurs, the "Demon World" and "God World" which exist in parallel to the real world, are merged with it.
If you are keeping count. That is (infinite universes * 3 ) * infinite iterations of each of these.
And what happens when the Demi-Fiend kills Kagutsuchi? The multiverse, alongside the very concept of time, freaking dies.
Other Avatars which should be at least comparable to Kagutsuchi are Elohim, Shaddai, Sabaoth, and the Ancient of Days.
Then there is Metatron, who is in the same game recognized as explicitly above Kagutsuchi, as it is "The strongest warrior of light". And its mere voice is compared to the Amala Universe, which is the infinite multiverse that Kagutsuchi maintains.
This same Metatron is held up as pathetic by the Demiurge, another Avatar of YHVH. To the point where Metatron is described as YHVH's mind and the Demiurge as YHVH's power in the same game.
Which brings me to the Mother Goddesses, which sealed Metatron and Demiurge in the first place after YHVH was split.
The Mother Goddesses include Ouroboros Maia, Tiamat, Maya, Kali Ma, Anahita & Maria (I think), and potentially Amaterasu and Mother Harlot.
Of this it is worth pointing out that Mother Harlot is generally considered to be the most powerful of the Fiends. Who are Lucifer's enforcers.
And Ouroboros, the first Mother you fight in the game, is the embodiment of Infinity & Eternity, making it a Kagutsuchi-level entity.
All the Mothers are aspects of Mem Aleph, the Primordial and Archetypal Earth Mother Goddess.
Why is all of this important. Well, after you defeat the Demiurge in Strange Journey, if you are allied with Law it will absorb Metatro, and will claim it regained a portion of the Creator's power and it won't be long til it returns to its "True Form, full of Light"...
But if you are allied with Chaos, a Female Voice (Almost undobtedly Mem Aleph) intervenes and seals this empowered Demiurge casually.
This same Mem Aleph, btw, is comparable to the Shekinah, another Avatar of YHVH. Namely, its female aspect.
Lucifer is more powerful than Mem Aleph, as it is outright stated to be the "Strongest power of Darkness", and the Embodiment of all Chaos, and Mem Aleph is a Chaos-aligned deity. However, Lucifer outright states that he is nothing but an aspect of YHVH as well.
He also dismisses the Demiurge as worthless, "a mere Godly Spirit".
Indeed, if Lucifer is the Embodiment of all Chaos, then YHVH is the Embodiment of all Law:
God says, "I am Alpha and Omega." This is the beginning and end, in other words, everything in the world is God's work. Lucifer, the king of the dark, embodies all of the dark side of the world. If creation is the work of God, destruction is the work of Lucifer. The two may be related to each other like personas. So the concept was an intellectual-looking child seeing from the beginning to the end (the future), an old man who views the present in a considerate manner, and, depending on the player's choice, a sinister demon. In the game he is there to tempt the player and give him trials to test him. I previously called him the king of the dark, but that was just to make explaining him simpler. In the world of the Megaten series, I don't consider him as evil; he is just a character that tests the player. So visually I portrayed him as elegant and gentleman-like. According to one theory Lucifer is said to look like a beautiful angel with 12 wings, but in this game he is portrayed as demonic with 6 wings. This is the style I picked to represent the dark side. In Megaten 1 and 2, he appears as an angel with 6 wings, so combining them you'll get 12 wings. Throughout the series, he has appeared as a child, and old man, a gentleman, an angel and a demon. This is to show that he is omnipotent. I believe there will be a time when he will reveal his true form, a combination of all his other forms, to the player. | ||
~ Kazuma Kaneko on Lucifer |
Here's a transcript of a scene from SMT II (Couldn't find it on Youtube):
Zayin: Why...me...To save the people...to save as many as possible...isn't this what God wanted...? Where...is God? Is he nowhere to be found...? Or is this...his will...? The center abandoned those that believed in God and worked for his sake...the Elders...Did God choose them...and abandon me...? God...
Voice: There is no God!
Zayin: !? Who's there!?
Voice: If God will not interfere no matter what happens to you, then God will not interfere no matter what you do, either.
Zayin: !?
Voice: Don't force yourself to obey. Were you not born in the name of God?
Zayin: ...Well...
Voice: By definition, is not whatever you do God's will?
Zayin: ...Whatever I do...
Voice: Do not try to obey something. Do not try to obey someone. Do not think of God as having just one face. God is not good. God is everything. Everything is God. You too can become a face of God.
Zayin: Become...a face of God...
Voice: You are not one to be judged and punished. You are the ultimate Temple Knight. As the one closest to God, obey his commands and become the one to mete out the judgment and punishment.
Zayin: The judge...and punisher...
Voice: Fulfill your role, as the one closer to God, closer than the Center and closer than the Elders.
Zayin: My...role...Punisher in God's stead...
Also stated by YHVH himself.
As further proof of this? Look no further than what YHVH does in SMT Apocalypse: When going through YHVH's Universe, you fight Beelzebub and Lucifuge, and then Lucifer. Stephen explains that as he works through the Observation of humans, YHVH can recreate anything observed by human eyes as many times as he wants.
What is Observatio? Well, to make a long story short, in SMT all reality is subjective and defined entirely by the shared Observation of humans. Humans observe a phenomena, and assign an answer to it, be it scientific or supernatural, and through this Observation it is real. The more something is collectively Observe, the more "real" it is.
For example, let's take the phenomena of rain. People in our modern world will Observe it as a natural phenomena, and explain it scientifically. But in Ancient Greece people would assign Zeus as their answer to it, while in Ancient Scandinavia people would assign Thor as their answer to it. Because of this, rain will be a phenomena that is simultaneously caused by the natural laws of physics, but also by supernatural entities like Zeus and Thor. All are real at the same time, and yet neither are real.
YHVH can control the Observations of humans and use it to his favour.
Oh, and in Apocalypse YHVH also spams infinite Metatrons through the same principle.
I could also talk about YHVH is pretty much nigh-impossible to be killed due to how Observation works. But I think you get the gist of it by now.
There IS a reason why YHVH is considered the undisputed, absolute King of the 2-A Tier and why you should never, never make matches against him. It's not just favoritism and hype. It's fact.
- 4,178
- 1,471
Holy sh*t...
- 33,405
- 8,417
Y'know what's funny about all this? I can still actually very much argue why Lucemon is actually still comparable in AP. Give me some time here.
- 4,178
- 1,471
@Dragon
DO IT
DO IT
- 3,052
- 2,627
Wait HM, With more evidence about Servers this will be easier to do.Dragonmasterxyz said:
- 32,344
- 20,269
If you think the reason YHVH wins is solely through AP you missed the entire point of my rant above.
- 33,405
- 8,417
Never said that. I just said I would match the AP. Nothing more. Don't assume just yet. There is more than that....Matthew Schroeder said:
- 3,052
- 2,627
All I have to say is that doing this fight is a sin and in the end we will all become one with Lucemon and suffer in the Dark Area OvO
- 4,464
- 1,095
- 1,254
- 141
YHVH for Matt's reasons
- 63,522
- 8,487
Digimon fails to take the crown FRA.
- 33,405
- 8,417
You assholes actually think I'm gonna debate that? I don't know enough about Decode to even try. However, I guess I need to type something down since you all waited so long.
Powerscaling
Chronomo
Chronomon's entire goal is to completely destroy everything in the Digital World, i.e an infinite multiverse. Well to be more specific, that's what he was going to do once he woke up, but he was immediately returned from his "Destroy Mode" to his "Holy Mode" stopping his destructive plans.
This is in truth our 2-A baseline.
Digimon World: DS Seven Great Demon Lords
These guys are our weakest SGDL. But it should be noted that despite knowing the protagonist defeated Chronomon, they were still confident in facing him one on one. Even after their allies were being defeated one by one. Of course these guys suck and no one cares about them.
Digimon Multiverse size
Let's take a break real quick and go over how large the 4-D portion of the Digimon Multiverse is. First off we all know there are infinite universes. That much has long been proven. Infinite branching worlds and mes.
Aaaaand now to conclude everything by saying that seeing as Hacker's Memory has yet to be released...I can't prove one thing with scans...The fact that each EDEN server is another infinite universe. As such it would raise the series to have multiple different infinite universes...cuz **** my life right?
Either way, I wish YHVH was High 2-A or True Lucemon was still 2-A....Then I could easily say Lucemon wins. YHVH for reasons above.
Powerscaling
Chronomo
Chronomon's entire goal is to completely destroy everything in the Digital World, i.e an infinite multiverse. Well to be more specific, that's what he was going to do once he woke up, but he was immediately returned from his "Destroy Mode" to his "Holy Mode" stopping his destructive plans.
This is in truth our 2-A baseline.
Digimon World: DS Seven Great Demon Lords
These guys are our weakest SGDL. But it should be noted that despite knowing the protagonist defeated Chronomon, they were still confident in facing him one on one. Even after their allies were being defeated one by one. Of course these guys suck and no one cares about them.
Digimon Multiverse size
Let's take a break real quick and go over how large the 4-D portion of the Digimon Multiverse is. First off we all know there are infinite universes. That much has long been proven. Infinite branching worlds and mes.
Aaaaand now to conclude everything by saying that seeing as Hacker's Memory has yet to be released...I can't prove one thing with scans...The fact that each EDEN server is another infinite universe. As such it would raise the series to have multiple different infinite universes...cuz **** my life right?
Either way, I wish YHVH was High 2-A or True Lucemon was still 2-A....Then I could easily say Lucemon wins. YHVH for reasons above.
- Status
Similar threads
