World of Darkness upgrade

[Udlmaster]

Also again to put into context, God's power was too great to create creation himself, he needed proxies so he wouldn't auto destroy creation upon conception.

Then to further put into context that God's mere plans are so great that only the most powerful Angels couls even hear it, the others would literally get EE'd

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Udel

Do not become unreasonable about this as it is possible for an multiverse to be finite in size. At the very least, the individual worlds may be infinite in terms of space, but that doesn't mean there can be infinite number of 6D universes. The fact from one of the quotes is it has the phrase "theoretically infinite number of realms" is suggesting it is only in theory rather than it straight up saying it is indeed infinite numbers of realms. Not only that, but that is giving me the impression of the cosmology being an finite 6D multiverse at the very least

 

[Udlmaster]

I do have more than just that, but I can't get to it because I'm not on my laptop,so I'll give you them when I get back home

As for the Low ball, I don't mind the low ball, He'll is stated to be beyond places and timeless time. And infinite Hells is vastly below Heaven and maybe below the 6-D multiverse.

There then exists the infinite Heavens which 1 is incalculable when compared to the 6-D multiverse, then the Angels are above the infinite Heavens and God is (I'll say possibly to low ball) possibly infinite infinities, with the very lowest being infinitely above the Angels.

 

[Udlmaster]

At the very least this would make him multiple infinities above 6-D

 

[Udlmaster]

Okay, I am now Home, so let me quickly dispel some of the skeptism you have:

>Do not become unreasonable about this as it is possible for an multiverse to be finite in size.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable, to be honest, that's why I kept the lesser ball of 6-D, because of there is a just in case.

But anyway, infinite Realms:

1 Multiverse is called the Great labyrinth in Exisence.

Just to note this one here, it called Heaven a world, obviously, Heaven isn't a Planet, obviously, it's using the word "World" to mean Universe.

Another statement about Infinite amount of Realms

I think I've proven my point.

Infinite sized Universes:

It's stated here

Stated here

Here

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Udel


Hmmm I not sure about this as some of the images didn't even bother citing the original sources that involved the World of Darkness series.


Your point regarding infinite sized universes seem to stem from different sources. One of them coming from a wikia apparently.


In addition to that, the third scan is the same in the OP.


Not sure about the first scan regarding the "infinite numbers of connected realms" statement considering how the first statement from your first scan seems to contradicts the one mentioned in the third scan (the phrase of "theoretically infinite number of realms).

I will prefer if you also give citations for each one as this is certainly puzzling to say at least.


Also worlds can mean planets or universes depending on the context for that matter.

 

[Udlmaster]

>Hmmm I not sure about this as some of the images didn't even bother citing the original sources that involved the World of Darkness series.

Um, are you actually serious?

Okay then, let's go:

1 Multiverse is called the Great labyrinth in Exisence.

Mage, the Ascention 20th Anniverary Edition, Page 97

Just to note this one here, it called Heaven a world, obviously, Heaven isn't a Planet, obviously, it's using the word "World" to mean Universe.

Mage, the Ascention 20th Anniverary Edition, Page 474

Another statement about Infinite amount of Realms

Infinite sized Universes:

It's stated here

Mage, the Ascention 20th Anniversary Edition, Page 81

Stated here

Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition Page 428

Here

Mage, the Ascention 20th Anniverary Edition, Page 474, the Chapter itself is literally called "The Otherworlds"

Better yet on my way through searching I've found more evidence:

Stated to be Infinite

Mage, the Ascention 20th Anniversary - Book of Secrets Page 193


>Your point regarding infinite sized universes seem to stem from different sources. One of them coming from a wikia apparently.

Exuse me?

Um, NO. NOT AT ALL.

>In addition to that, the third scan is the same in the OP.

So that means it's wrong? What is this Non-Sequiter.

>Not sure about the first scan regarding the "infinite numbers of connected realms" statement considering how the first statement from your first scan seems to contradicts the one mentioned in the third scan (the phrase of "theoretically infinite number of realms).

Did you read? They obviously don't contradict themselves, they both come to the same conclusion.

Do you know what contradict means?

>Also worlds can mean planets or universes depending on the context for that matter.

Dude, are you actually serious right now, did you bother to read what it says afterwards, it's talking about Heaven and Hell, 1 of which is stated to be incalculable compared to Infinite Multiverses and the other, Hell, is said to be beyond place and Timeless time.

This is a non-argument because you're ignoring the context that it gives literally after that part, I even say this in my post, and you still chose to ignore it.

 

[Udlmaster]

To further my point:

Correspondence Magic is beyond the realms of convential reality

Before Heaven was destroyed (During the Age of Astrosities) there was infinite levels of Meaning.

Infinite possibilities exist and they stare back.

Heaven contains infinite souls, it's not planet sized

Additionally, there are realms outside Time and Space

Yes, the Universe is infinite

 

[Udlmaster]

Eight Dimensional!

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It would be much, much more credible if you posted the actual page rather than a tidbit that from the looks of it seems to be nothing but flowery language

 

[Kaltias]

Another statement about Infinite amount of Realms

No, the infinite amount is theoretical

It's stated here

Feels infinite =/= It's infinite

Stated to be Infinite

It seems to be theoretical as well.

The other scans are fair game however, so they are an infinite amount of infinitely big worlds.

As for the "scaling" in the OP, most of it seems fine, but God being called "Infinity of Infinities" =/= Infinity^2 stronger. It could easily be a honorific title or something

Oh and 6-D, not 7-D

 

[Udlmaster]

>No, the infinite amount is theoretical

There are multiple statements about infinite Universes

https://i.imgur.com/GB9Z7RP.png

(I'm going to say when it says there's infinite levels of existence, I'll assume Universes, it could mean Dimensions, but I don't think it is.) https://imgur.com/wkqJ3m1

While it does say at that it is "theorized" that's because WoD is heavily Story based, and doesn't enforce rules very often, but I think I've stated my point, it's just which ever you feel suits it best.

>Feels infinite =/= It's infinite

There's a lot more than just that.

>

It seems to be theoretical as well.

The other scans are fair game however, so they are an infinite amount of infinitely big worlds.

As for the "scaling" in the OP, most of it seems fine, but God being called "Infinity of Infinities" =/= Infinity^2 stronger. It could easily be a honorific title or something


Awesome, I'm glad we agree! ^_^

 

[Udlmaster]

It would be much, much more credible if you posted the actual page rather than a tidbit that from the looks of it seems to be nothing but flowery language

The book and the page number are listed either below the link or if on imgur, below the image on imgur.

 

[Udlmaster]

>As for the "scaling" in the OP, most of it seems fine, but God being called "Infinity of Infinities" =/= Infinity^2 stronger. It could easily be a honorific title or something

The reason why this is notable is because the Angels are just the smallest fragments of God herself, it becomes notable when you think they call her the Infinite of Infinites when they are parts of God herself.

It seems to suggest that her being is infinite infinites greater than the portions given to them, that her total is exactly that, infinite infinities.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, it could mean that, but the point is that for something as big as "two orders of infinity above" you'd need foolproof evidence, not a simple "it could mean that"

 

[Udlmaster]

I mean, it could mean that, but the point is that for something as big as "two orders of infinity above" you'd need foolproof evidence, not a simple "it could mean that"

Yeah, I agree with you, similarly why I had disagreed with 8-D until I found evidence for it.

I have found evidence for it, in the form of the Negation Men, which are considered, even for White Wolf, Extremes for Anti-Mage fluff.

Why do I note that it's extreme? Well, the last time they noted something being extreme, it had the power to control the Fate of everything in the verse.

The Negation Men are said to either be Mages that deny their Awakening and it messes with them, or Humans that are in denial of Magic so hard that they negate magic around them.

One of the most notable, (to the point that he's given a name, which is high praise considering they almost NEVER give named characters out) of these is stated to Marshal the powers of Chaos across a 8th Dimensional chess board.

Now, why is this notable?

Well, firstly, Humans are stated to have the potential to become Equal to God herself. More tha once.

The Technocrats, the organization that uses the Negation Men have a form of "magic" (it's not really magic but it kinda is a the same time) called "Dimensional Science", so there isn't any misconception.

Does 8-D support anything?

Yes, actually, Atlantis is stated to have existed several Metaphysical dimensionsand it's not saying Universes at it states after that they very well could have perseved Several layers of Reality simultaniously, what leads them to this conclusion is that there were finding that were stating these.

This is also what leads me into thinking that "Infinite Number of layers of existence" could mean dimensions with the same way it was used for Atlantis. But I will leave that conclusion up to you, I personally believe it should be something to add to the "possibly Much Higher" section.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ever sent me and Ultima this:

• First up why is God listed as female? The text repeatedly uses male pronouns
• Quantum Manipulation, Immortality (Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8) and Mid-Godly have no justifications
• Hellfire Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation and Death Manipulation all stem from "Created XYZ that can do this", *Causality Manipulation by creating causality is also pretty flimsy
• Type 5 Acausality has no backing
• Type 1 Abstract Existence has really lackluster justifications, and Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation has no justification at all
• Gives Type 9/10 Large Size based on God being called an "infinite existence"
• "Immortality and Regenerationn negation (Mid-Godly and Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8)" and Resistance Negation, all absurdly high-end powers with no justifications
• Data Manipulation comes from absolutely nothing. Seriously, the scan says nothing about it
• Resisting Time, Soul and Spatial Manipulation by existing before these elements, time for all creator gods to resist ALL powers
• Planck Length Matter Manipulation doesn't mention planck... or matter... or even God
• Resisting various other powers from entities "infinite infinities" (See below) weaker really doesn't count for anything
• The Avatars key seems superfluous because nothing in the scan mentions avatars
• The 6 dimensions thing is both listed twice for different justifications for the same tier, and really just seems like technobabble
• The "infinite infinities above angels" thing is utter nonsense, it's only that the Angels call God the "Infinite of Infinities" as a title
• Infinite multiverses are never mentioned, and the infinite Heavens is explicitly just theoretical
• A single mention of quantum physics does not warrant the "possibly far higher", and the "may contain many more dimensions" bit only mentions four dimensions

You might as well delete the page from how terrible it is.

 

[Udlmaster]

Wow, Matthew, this is new levels of Toxic, not even allowing any explainations, lovely. But allow me to show you that what you put was wrong:

>First up why is God listed as female? The text repeatedly uses male pronouns

Days of Fire specifically calls God she, she is never called anything else throughout the entire book. The Picture on her profile is her. God is a she.

>Quantum Manipulation, Immortality (Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8) and Mid-Godly have no justifications

Quantum Manipulation: https://i.imgur.com/Sg27dK3.png https://imgur.com/Bhj5JX0 https://imgur.com/nygRUca

Type 1, 2 and 3 are basic and I assume you understand that God would have these, I hope you have the common sense for it.

Type 4, You're right, Type 4 should't be on there.

Type 5,Angels are Deathless beings, Angels are just fragments of God.

Type 8, God is one with Creation to destroy God, one must destroy Creation. Creation is literally made upon God.

Mid-Godly: Already went over in this thread here .

>Type 5 Acausality has no backing

Went over this here .

>Type 1 Abstract Existence has really lackluster justifications, and Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation has no justification at all

Angels created all Concepts in reality, Angels are just fragments of God.

Here's God creating the Concept of Death directly.

>Gives Type 9/10 Large Size based on God being called an "infinite existence"

Everything is created on God, God is stated to be all creation etc.

>"Immortality and Regenerationn negation (Mid-Godly and Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8)" and Resistance Negation, all absurdly high-end powers with no justifications

Again, I hope you have the common sense to understand that 1, 2 and 3 would be a given for the Angels and Demons.

Type 4 is being able to completely ignore this .

Type 5, God has killed Type 5s, additionally, the Angels do this, as they are able to inflict Death upon the Demons. This is shown over the Age of Astrosities.

Type 7, Undead, God can ignore Undeath of Liches, from Archmage. And naturally Caine and his Vampires. After all, he gave Caine his Undeath.

Type 8, same thing, she can neg Liches.

>Data Manipulation comes from absolutely nothing. Seriously, the scan says nothing about it

Went through this in this thead...again.

>Resisting Time, Soul and Spatial Manipulation by existing before these elements, time for all creator gods to resist ALL powers

I'm not sure what you're trying to put here? But God is also immune to the attempts at harming him from the Archmages, who can do all of the above.

>Resisting various other powers from entities "infinite infinities" (See below) weaker really doesn't count for anything

Actually, we've consider that more so just Infinitely above instead of Infinite infinities, as it seems much more like the former and the latter being flowery talk for the former.

>Planck Length Matter Manipulation doesn't mention planck... or matter... or even God

See above.

>The Avatars key seems superfluous because nothing in the scan mentions avatars

This was one of the things I was going to cover in a Respect thread I was going to make when I had the time, because it is constantly stated that in Days of Fire that God's infinity cannot touch Finite, this is also backed up by the statement that God is too powerful to even create Creation and has to use the smallest fragments of his power to create the Angels.

>The 6 dimensions thing is both listed twice for different justifications for the same tier, and really just seems like technobabble

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove with this? If you want more, there's Atlantis which is stated to have be in Several metaphysical dimensions, low-balling to 3 (Several meaning more than 2) then Atlantis exist in 6 dimensions.

>The "infinite infinities above angels" thing is utter nonsense, it's only that the Angels call God the "Infinite of Infinities" as a title

Wait, why did you use this as justifications for him not to have powers but then say that the statement shouldn't be used? That's very depicidous. And see above.

>Infinite multiverses are never mentioned, and the infinite Heavens is explicitly just theoretical

See my comments above this one.

>A single mention of quantum physics does not warrant the "possibly far higher", and the "may contain many more dimensions" bit only mentions four dimensions

See above.