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Will vs waine
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
- 8,959
- 3,543
So it reflects magic attacks, huh?
AP obviously goes to Waine, while speed goes to Will. Durability goes to Waine, but Will has much better regen and can spam shields.
Will has a bit of a conundrum. He's at at least a x2 AP disadvantage, likely higher with the shield. He's an incredibly potent fighter, and will likely attempt to make the best of it all. To start the battle, he would employ self buffs and debuff Waine's speed. He'll launch some offensive attacks, which will be reflected. Will will realize he'll have to figure out ways to get around to shield. He'll use AoE attacks, considering the shield is small, to bypass and slowly chip Waine down. If Waine gets close, Will can catch him by surprise with surprisingly high skill in melee combat, plenty of melee spells, and Soulblade. Vote Will Hohenzollern.
By the way: Will downscales pretty heavy from 643 tons. However, he has one hell of a range advantage and has plenty more versatility, plus often surprises enemies. (Enemies rarely expect the priestly, ranged mage to be adept and powerful in melee combat.)
AP obviously goes to Waine, while speed goes to Will. Durability goes to Waine, but Will has much better regen and can spam shields.
Will has a bit of a conundrum. He's at at least a x2 AP disadvantage, likely higher with the shield. He's an incredibly potent fighter, and will likely attempt to make the best of it all. To start the battle, he would employ self buffs and debuff Waine's speed. He'll launch some offensive attacks, which will be reflected. Will will realize he'll have to figure out ways to get around to shield. He'll use AoE attacks, considering the shield is small, to bypass and slowly chip Waine down. If Waine gets close, Will can catch him by surprise with surprisingly high skill in melee combat, plenty of melee spells, and Soulblade. Vote Will Hohenzollern.
By the way: Will downscales pretty heavy from 643 tons. However, he has one hell of a range advantage and has plenty more versatility, plus often surprises enemies. (Enemies rarely expect the priestly, ranged mage to be adept and powerful in melee combat.)
- 8,959
- 3,543
Surprisingly, I think Will has the experience and intelligence advantage, even at close range. As well, Will has both amps and debuffs, so Will can certainly maneuver around the shield both in melee and at a range.
Also yea, Mid-Low is a helluva lot worse than Low-Mid.
Also yea, Mid-Low is a helluva lot worse than Low-Mid.
- 1,632
- 140
That's around 807 tons.
- 8,959
- 3,543
Hm, well then it's close to a x2 advantage.
Now, x2 isn't insurmountable, but it's not good. Waine clearly has an advantage in a fair fight. However, it's worth nothing that Will can heal off most of what Waine could deal to him.
While Waine has an AP advantage, Will has basically everything else. Much higher speeds, spammable shields and regen, much more range, better skill, a sword that can damage his soul, and AoE that can't be easily reflected by the shield. Unless someone can provide an argument for how Waine can not only get into close range, but keep Will there despite his skill and speed, there's no way Waine can really win.
Now, x2 isn't insurmountable, but it's not good. Waine clearly has an advantage in a fair fight. However, it's worth nothing that Will can heal off most of what Waine could deal to him.
While Waine has an AP advantage, Will has basically everything else. Much higher speeds, spammable shields and regen, much more range, better skill, a sword that can damage his soul, and AoE that can't be easily reflected by the shield. Unless someone can provide an argument for how Waine can not only get into close range, but keep Will there despite his skill and speed, there's no way Waine can really win.
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That's about it, though. Meanwhile, Will received training from his incredibly skilled brother and can even keep up with people who had trained their entire lives in melee, using surprise attacks by defying expectation to beat them down.
The shield and AP is literally Waine's only advantages.
The shield and AP is literally Waine's only advantages.
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His regen isn't that great nor close to Will's regen. As well, the AP difference is x2, not x5.
Their combat skill isn't remotely equal. Will has gotten training from people comparative to Valev in skill. And anyone close to Valev in skill would very much outclass Waine.
Their combat skill isn't remotely equal. Will has gotten training from people comparative to Valev in skill. And anyone close to Valev in skill would very much outclass Waine.
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The Regenerationn helps, but not enough to no-sell.
Smashtwig, that is the definition of burden of proof. Not only that, but Spinoirr literally already stated on the profile his skill, and the difference is tremendous. Could you stop throwing around 'assuming' when I'm really only using what's been said?
It means Waine will have a lot of trouble landing a hit against a faster and more skilled opponent, and just as you said, damage Waine deals can be healed off. Except far more easily.
Smashtwig, that is the definition of burden of proof. Not only that, but Spinoirr literally already stated on the profile his skill, and the difference is tremendous. Could you stop throwing around 'assuming' when I'm really only using what's been said?
It means Waine will have a lot of trouble landing a hit against a faster and more skilled opponent, and just as you said, damage Waine deals can be healed off. Except far more easily.
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You haven't really stated how Will is incapable of damaging him. With the speed buffs, it'll be rather easy to hit him.
As well, Waine's regen is... rather bad. If Will simply range spams, Waine's regen would be easily overwhelmed.
Remember, it's Mid-Low. Waine's going to be taken down eventually, take real damage, and he won't be able to heal it back.
As well, Waine's regen is... rather bad. If Will simply range spams, Waine's regen would be easily overwhelmed.
Remember, it's Mid-Low. Waine's going to be taken down eventually, take real damage, and he won't be able to heal it back.
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Smashtwig, Mid-Low doesn't make someone invincible.
Oh, he throws the shield? Then he loses, badly. Will will simply tank a hit and grab the shield, then refuse to give it back. Without the shield, Waine really, really can't win.
So yea, Will wins decisively after Waine throws the shield.
Oh, he throws the shield? Then he loses, badly. Will will simply tank a hit and grab the shield, then refuse to give it back. Without the shield, Waine really, really can't win.
So yea, Will wins decisively after Waine throws the shield.
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But it's not about thinking, it's about how strong the attack actually is. Mid-Low only regenerates scars and large cuts. Are you claiming Will will, throughout the entire battle, be unable to do enough damage to even cut off a single finger?
Since that's what you are saying, which is extremely incorrect.
Also, view the above about the shield.
Since that's what you are saying, which is extremely incorrect.
Also, view the above about the shield.
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If it's objectively incorrect, as you admitted, then you're admitting your reasoning is objectively wrong.Smashtwig said:
Since you clearly stated your reasoning is objectively wrong, and you have not countered or addressed a single point, your vote can not be counted.
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Effectively, either argue your point or it really can't be counted. Saying "I believe it" doesn't make it true. Even if I personally believe Saitama could beat The One Above All, that's obviously not a valid vote if I don't argue it.
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Considering Valev was able to outsmart Death, a literal ageless entity, and Will was taught by someone comparable to Valev, Waine really can't hold much of a candle.
Will has regen and shields, plus stays at a range and has a skill advantage, plus his sword can do massive damage to Waine with only a few strikes.
Is the magnetism magical, if it only targets the shield and nothing else? Since that's not on the profile.
Will has regen and shields, plus stays at a range and has a skill advantage, plus his sword can do massive damage to Waine with only a few strikes.
Is the magnetism magical, if it only targets the shield and nothing else? Since that's not on the profile.
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To TLDR:
Waine has AP and the shield as his only advantages. Will has much, much higher speed via debuffs and amps, far better healing and Regenerationn, better skill via being taught by people comparative to Valev, and having a soulblade that destroys Waine in close-quarters combat.
At a range, Waine can't hit Will, so Will wins. In melee, he can use speed, amp, skill, and Soulblade to take them down.
Waine has AP and the shield as his only advantages. Will has much, much higher speed via debuffs and amps, far better healing and Regenerationn, better skill via being taught by people comparative to Valev, and having a soulblade that destroys Waine in close-quarters combat.
At a range, Waine can't hit Will, so Will wins. In melee, he can use speed, amp, skill, and Soulblade to take them down.
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I wouldn't call it blitz, but it's a big advantage. I don't know what speed advantage would qualify as blitz, but you could still reasonably fight someone 10ish times faster than you, with some difficulty.
Not saying that's what the gap is, though.
Also, Smashtwig, I would like to point out that every single point you made has been countered (Regen is too small, durability gap isn't that large, he throws his shields often and Will can simply take the hit, grab it, shield up and run the hell away with it, hide it, then come back and fight before BFR is up).
Basically, you're saying that the speed advantage isn't enough until it's in blitz range, in which it's a stomp? So it jumps from a loss to a stomp like that?
Not saying that's what the gap is, though.
Also, Smashtwig, I would like to point out that every single point you made has been countered (Regen is too small, durability gap isn't that large, he throws his shields often and Will can simply take the hit, grab it, shield up and run the hell away with it, hide it, then come back and fight before BFR is up).
Basically, you're saying that the speed advantage isn't enough until it's in blitz range, in which it's a stomp? So it jumps from a loss to a stomp like that?
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I already clearly stated how Waine can certainly do more damage than one finger's worth. And unless you can debunk that, your point loses meaning.
Waine literally tosses the shield forward, you know. Have you answered this point at all? Will can simply grab it, run away, bury the shield, then come back.
That's all I'm going to say to you, Magno. You're clearly not interested in a debate, nor backing up your points, and thus there is no productivity in this.
Waine literally tosses the shield forward, you know. Have you answered this point at all? Will can simply grab it, run away, bury the shield, then come back.
That's all I'm going to say to you, Magno. You're clearly not interested in a debate, nor backing up your points, and thus there is no productivity in this.
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