- 4
- 0
Scaling via compositon
Ok so, with the fraud layer update, and the 8-3 secret book that came along with it, we can rightfully say that the cosmology is Pretty big to say the least. Which should put it at low complex multiversal bare minimum and pretty casually outerversal or even higher if y'all accept that.
We know what characters guarantee scale to this, those being God since he created the cosmology, and hell itself because even god Couldn't unmake it. One request i have is that they both should have their own pages in this Wiki so please make them if y'all can.
However, in this thread i'd like to argue that there are other characters that scale to the cosmology.
Firstly demons should scale to this, because they are literally Made of hell's flesh and mass itself. (50:26) in turn this would scale them to hell's ontology and by the rules of outerversal and qualitative superiority outerversal cannot be broken down into lower tiers. Thus demons would literally scale to hell due to material compositon. And we know that they wouldn't be avatars at all. There is zero things suggesting or confirming such thing. It's likely that hell doesn't Really have a true form other than the literal realm itself being it's true form. Tho for the low complex multiversal end i ain't top sure about this. I think it does apply still because and uncountable infinite difference is literally between finite numbers and zero. And demons would have to be scaled down to zero twice to be 3D.
Secondly even if it was somehow accepted with no proof that demons are simply avatars, it wouldn't really matter because Angels literally withold The holy light belonging to god himself. It's even described as "the might of god" meaning rather than just being one of god's powers it's literally god's powers themselves. So no "avatars" this time.
Thirdly now this one is a bit controvertial but, in the code poem (literally just search it up) which is implied to be about how V1's systems operate, it involves manipulating Prima materia which is the formless basis that makes up absolutely everything from material to the metaphysical as said with "as above so below" (don't mistake this for the arestotalean version which only makes up all matter rather than the spiritual and metaphysical, in opposed to alchemy which ultrakill follows) More on it here. in the poem V1 can reify it (turning and abstract object to something tangilable) and deify it (pretty much the opposite) to make materials out of this material basis of pure potential to likely repair and heal itself. (Also likely make ammo from it too as the nailgun ammo is confirmed to be made from rest of the metal stuff in V1's way like iron in the blood, V1 is stated to use this to make bullet ammunition with the same likely applying to the rocket launcher too as it's made from raw materials) Pretty much just scaling V1 to the cosmology since it's literally what the cosmology is made out of.
Fourth and last argument it that mirror reapers are literally a byproduct of the punishment of the fraud layer, which i've talked about in the cosmology blog to operate on the 39 states of existence which is literally what the cosmology is upscaled off of in the first place. And since the mirror reaper can manipulate/bend/fold the spaces that make up the fraud layer itself and interact with the portals (also attack from it with the hands) it quite literally should have scaling to it.
Scaling via majorly affecting hell rather than just material compositon
Now i think these will be less valid than the compositon ones but it's bigger in scale so o will be arguing these too.
Firstly Minos was able to turn the entire lust layer into one big City and i think we all know that. So what im arguing is that if Minos can fully influence and affect an entire layer of hell into it being an utopia devoid of punishment, and even destroyed said City as a corpse later on stated by Minos prime's terminal entry. Idk why this would scale him to the layers of hell at all (to note layers of hell aren't smaller bigger or the same size as eachother, as when hakita was asked about this he simply replied: "hell doesn't abide by the laws of physics and space from our world so don't worry about that" meaning layers should be pretty equal in terms of scaling) to also note is that hell's layers as established aren't concrete 3 dimensional flat planes it's literally an abstract existence that is "all shapes at the same time but not really any of them" basically making it formless. (see cosmology blog) and Minos somehow managed to make a City and a functional society out of this without anything had of mysterious noted to happen to it. Which wouldn't make sense if it wasn't given a set form for the society to function. This is consistent with the fact that it's not the first time we see husks manipulating the space within hell as ferryman literally do that in order to send sinners into their punishment and minos' insides are already a spatial anomaly with gluttony being both: inside and outside Minos at the same time. So Minos can make a layer wide change thus scaling to the layer itself.
Secondly sisyphus (or the insurrection as a whole) unleashed A warcry so fierce it shook the foundations of hell. (1:13:30) Which is pretty straight forward in terms of scaling. However, the main argument i see about this is that it was "simply hyperbole or metaphor" which isn't the case, because the terminals are source of pure data and information. And this was literally written in the data section of the terminals. This means that the terminals view this as an historical event, rather than just flowery language to make sisyphus and the army look Cool. This is supported by the fact that the terminal doesn't just call this a "fury" it calls this "a FORCE and fury" meaning it wasn't just big Anger to sound angry, it was a literal force that shook hell itself. This is also supported because the only other mention of the term "the very foundations" was used in a sense of place in the 1-4 book, rather than just feeling. So yes, in turn this would mean that sisyphus or the insurrection shook hell itself.
Thirdly, a hell ton of (literally) sinners in the wrath layer literally shifted the current of a river that stretches across the layers of hell for ferrymen to travel to and literally turned the wrath layer into an unfathomable ocean. (5-2 book states these) So they literally majorly affected a layer of hell meaning they would scale to it.
Fourthly the machines are quite literally destroying hell and it's layers. (When hakita was asked about this he said he didn't really know because it didn't matter, only that all life in there was gone. So by interpretation we could say that they indeed destroyed those layers.) Gabriel literally says that they are "gone" in 6-2 in a way that the layers are gone rather than just the people and his terminal entry literally says that hell is ending. Literally hakita himself not knowing it May pretty much imply that it's up to interpretation rather than just only life being destroyed in the first place.
Now y'all might be thinking: these are all done in quantities rather than just a single character, (which literally wouldn't matter because they aren't uncountable infinities in size or that this wouldn't matter because of qualitative superiority) so how do they singlehandedly scale to it? Simple prime souls are a threat to heaven and heaven is the strongest faction in all of ultrakill. They view the machine invasion as something unimportant to heaven that Gabriel himself could handle, and the husks are literally stuck in hell all because of the Angels. The insurrection literally fried fighting an army of Angels and lost. So prime souls and above scale to all of this.
Now speaking of prime souls sisyphus prime literally says: "before i tear down the cities, and crush the armies of heaven." Meaning prime souls are pretty much narratively capable of destroying heaven. (see heaven in the cosmology blog) Because the layers of hell themselves are literally called "cities" (like minos' City of lust, the City of dis in heresy, and "City of the dead sun" in the fraud layer" so i don't see why same shouldn't apply to a literal Good version of hell where god used to sit in. (This would already pretty much scale heaven to hell.) So prime souls are capable of destroying heaven.
And that's it. That's all the arguments i have for the characters scaling to the cosmology. Have a good day.
Ok so, with the fraud layer update, and the 8-3 secret book that came along with it, we can rightfully say that the cosmology is Pretty big to say the least. Which should put it at low complex multiversal bare minimum and pretty casually outerversal or even higher if y'all accept that.
We know what characters guarantee scale to this, those being God since he created the cosmology, and hell itself because even god Couldn't unmake it. One request i have is that they both should have their own pages in this Wiki so please make them if y'all can.
However, in this thread i'd like to argue that there are other characters that scale to the cosmology.
Firstly demons should scale to this, because they are literally Made of hell's flesh and mass itself. (50:26) in turn this would scale them to hell's ontology and by the rules of outerversal and qualitative superiority outerversal cannot be broken down into lower tiers. Thus demons would literally scale to hell due to material compositon. And we know that they wouldn't be avatars at all. There is zero things suggesting or confirming such thing. It's likely that hell doesn't Really have a true form other than the literal realm itself being it's true form. Tho for the low complex multiversal end i ain't top sure about this. I think it does apply still because and uncountable infinite difference is literally between finite numbers and zero. And demons would have to be scaled down to zero twice to be 3D.
Secondly even if it was somehow accepted with no proof that demons are simply avatars, it wouldn't really matter because Angels literally withold The holy light belonging to god himself. It's even described as "the might of god" meaning rather than just being one of god's powers it's literally god's powers themselves. So no "avatars" this time.
Thirdly now this one is a bit controvertial but, in the code poem (literally just search it up) which is implied to be about how V1's systems operate, it involves manipulating Prima materia which is the formless basis that makes up absolutely everything from material to the metaphysical as said with "as above so below" (don't mistake this for the arestotalean version which only makes up all matter rather than the spiritual and metaphysical, in opposed to alchemy which ultrakill follows) More on it here. in the poem V1 can reify it (turning and abstract object to something tangilable) and deify it (pretty much the opposite) to make materials out of this material basis of pure potential to likely repair and heal itself. (Also likely make ammo from it too as the nailgun ammo is confirmed to be made from rest of the metal stuff in V1's way like iron in the blood, V1 is stated to use this to make bullet ammunition with the same likely applying to the rocket launcher too as it's made from raw materials) Pretty much just scaling V1 to the cosmology since it's literally what the cosmology is made out of.
Fourth and last argument it that mirror reapers are literally a byproduct of the punishment of the fraud layer, which i've talked about in the cosmology blog to operate on the 39 states of existence which is literally what the cosmology is upscaled off of in the first place. And since the mirror reaper can manipulate/bend/fold the spaces that make up the fraud layer itself and interact with the portals (also attack from it with the hands) it quite literally should have scaling to it.
Scaling via majorly affecting hell rather than just material compositon
Now i think these will be less valid than the compositon ones but it's bigger in scale so o will be arguing these too.
Firstly Minos was able to turn the entire lust layer into one big City and i think we all know that. So what im arguing is that if Minos can fully influence and affect an entire layer of hell into it being an utopia devoid of punishment, and even destroyed said City as a corpse later on stated by Minos prime's terminal entry. Idk why this would scale him to the layers of hell at all (to note layers of hell aren't smaller bigger or the same size as eachother, as when hakita was asked about this he simply replied: "hell doesn't abide by the laws of physics and space from our world so don't worry about that" meaning layers should be pretty equal in terms of scaling) to also note is that hell's layers as established aren't concrete 3 dimensional flat planes it's literally an abstract existence that is "all shapes at the same time but not really any of them" basically making it formless. (see cosmology blog) and Minos somehow managed to make a City and a functional society out of this without anything had of mysterious noted to happen to it. Which wouldn't make sense if it wasn't given a set form for the society to function. This is consistent with the fact that it's not the first time we see husks manipulating the space within hell as ferryman literally do that in order to send sinners into their punishment and minos' insides are already a spatial anomaly with gluttony being both: inside and outside Minos at the same time. So Minos can make a layer wide change thus scaling to the layer itself.
Secondly sisyphus (or the insurrection as a whole) unleashed A warcry so fierce it shook the foundations of hell. (1:13:30) Which is pretty straight forward in terms of scaling. However, the main argument i see about this is that it was "simply hyperbole or metaphor" which isn't the case, because the terminals are source of pure data and information. And this was literally written in the data section of the terminals. This means that the terminals view this as an historical event, rather than just flowery language to make sisyphus and the army look Cool. This is supported by the fact that the terminal doesn't just call this a "fury" it calls this "a FORCE and fury" meaning it wasn't just big Anger to sound angry, it was a literal force that shook hell itself. This is also supported because the only other mention of the term "the very foundations" was used in a sense of place in the 1-4 book, rather than just feeling. So yes, in turn this would mean that sisyphus or the insurrection shook hell itself.
Thirdly, a hell ton of (literally) sinners in the wrath layer literally shifted the current of a river that stretches across the layers of hell for ferrymen to travel to and literally turned the wrath layer into an unfathomable ocean. (5-2 book states these) So they literally majorly affected a layer of hell meaning they would scale to it.
Fourthly the machines are quite literally destroying hell and it's layers. (When hakita was asked about this he said he didn't really know because it didn't matter, only that all life in there was gone. So by interpretation we could say that they indeed destroyed those layers.) Gabriel literally says that they are "gone" in 6-2 in a way that the layers are gone rather than just the people and his terminal entry literally says that hell is ending. Literally hakita himself not knowing it May pretty much imply that it's up to interpretation rather than just only life being destroyed in the first place.
Now y'all might be thinking: these are all done in quantities rather than just a single character, (which literally wouldn't matter because they aren't uncountable infinities in size or that this wouldn't matter because of qualitative superiority) so how do they singlehandedly scale to it? Simple prime souls are a threat to heaven and heaven is the strongest faction in all of ultrakill. They view the machine invasion as something unimportant to heaven that Gabriel himself could handle, and the husks are literally stuck in hell all because of the Angels. The insurrection literally fried fighting an army of Angels and lost. So prime souls and above scale to all of this.
Now speaking of prime souls sisyphus prime literally says: "before i tear down the cities, and crush the armies of heaven." Meaning prime souls are pretty much narratively capable of destroying heaven. (see heaven in the cosmology blog) Because the layers of hell themselves are literally called "cities" (like minos' City of lust, the City of dis in heresy, and "City of the dead sun" in the fraud layer" so i don't see why same shouldn't apply to a literal Good version of hell where god used to sit in. (This would already pretty much scale heaven to hell.) So prime souls are capable of destroying heaven.
And that's it. That's all the arguments i have for the characters scaling to the cosmology. Have a good day.
