Why the wiki is managed the way it is

[Thebluedash]

I been itching to close the thread for a bit now, seeing as it's gotten out of hand. Ant and Kav can open this up again if they want to continue the disscussion, but I'm closing the thread for now.

 

[Antvasima]

@Arigarmy

I and Kavpeny were both extremely tired when writing those posts. I am usually trying to be much more nice and reasonable, but my judgement turns bad when I am thoroughly exhausted, and potential threats to the stability of the wiki is a major trigger issue that makes me extremely worried.

Please understand that I have devoted myself full time to the wiki's welfare for a few years at this point. I am heavily committed to its wellbeing, but given its chaotic nature, it does require more work than virtually any other wiki in existence.

I was definitely not referring to you or everybody who are using Discord. I was referring to a small group of members that I have previously been informed have been repeatedly antagonising Matthew, and harrassed Sera's family. But you are correct that I may have been too quick in perceiving patterns.

You are also probably correct in that I have been getting more worked up over this than I should, and agree that LordXcano most likely did not intentionally attempt to harm the wiki, but regardless of this, I think that what he is encouraging is extremely dangerous, and causes instability and dissent that may take much time and work to heal.

Anyway, I am still very tired and not well-rested, so I will close this thread again. Kavpeny may respond when he has woken up later during the day.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Sorry for opening this but i want to give my two cents.

I wasn't going to get involved in this but seeing how badly it was handled i'm forced to defend Xcano.

First let's address Xcano's retirement letter.As Arigarmy said he wasn't trying to force anything, he had the best interrest in mind and spoke of things he found wrong so let's stop treating him like he is a ******* terrorist or troll (yeah this post is going to contain a lot of bad language).

Too many staff members is something that has been bothering me quit some time now and i've already talked to Ant about it, though he didn't listen.

Monitoring edits isn't that hard at all, when i have time i usually monitor edits on pages for hours with very few actually suspicious things going on.The actual work comes with the content revision threads (which let's be honest even staff members usually reply to only verses they care about) but forum activity shouldn't justify an admin position.Take for example CinCameron20, he is frequently asked for help regarding One Piece but he isn't a staff member, he is just a regular member who likes a verse and helps out when he can.Why can't we have more of this people?

Not to mention that there are plenty of staff members that don't do their jobs appropriately (myself included, i like doing calcs and editing pages but i never liked checking calcs and discussions seem less and less appealing) so yes from a logical perspective demoting inactive staff members or staff members, that although active haven't actually helped the way the should, seems like the best thing to do.

Staff elitism is another thing.Even if we don't speak for it directly and we don't like to thing we are part of it, unfortunately it is in our minds wether we like it or not and this situation kinda proves this.I catch myself thinking that way most of the time when dealing with new members that fail to understand things that i find simple.Also replying to Sera: Yes i do know Calculus and Physics so yes i do believe myself to be smarter than a member that can't solve an 8th grade math problem.

I have used the Staff board many times myself though the main reason being is that i wanted to avoid discussions with people i believe to be wankers so i'm also guilty of that.So i don't think it's that necessary that we can't live without it.

Anyway, i have to leave now but i'll be back soon to cover the more important and controversial stuff.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

What i'm about to say may get me demoted and banned judging from what has been said here, but wtf, i'll say what i believe is right.

First of all @Kavpeny and @Antvasima and @the rest of the staff that took part in this thread or saw it and decided not to respond

If i was in your place i would be ashamed for the things that were said against Xcano and the fact that no one thought of actually defending him , possibly fearing that they will get banned or lose their "precious" positions.

1.Let's talk about Xcano's proposition of getting Kav and Ant demoted from Bureaucrats to Admins.

A Bureaucrat is the key position of any wiki and a wiki like ours needs level-headed people that can be here on a daily basis to manage threads/edits and be sure that everything works perfect.

While Kavpeny fits the description of a level headed person, he also has a history of inactivity.Nothing wrong with that, everyone has a life outside the wiki and it's perfectly understandable that some of us have more important things to focus like getting a job, studying, watching over our families etc.But if you have absolutely no time to manage the wiki then why should you keep such an important position and not hand it over to two members who have proven their worth multiple times and are always active and ready to help?

Antvasima on the other hand has been by far the most hard working member of the wiki and is still one of the most active members (with only Ryukama having similar levels of activity).So Ant doesn't have a solid reason to quit his position.That being said over the 2 years i've been on this wiki i've seen Ant's judgement and mental stamina diminish to the point that it affects the way he handles threads.Which results in two things, first the "cease and desist" policy Xcano talked about and secondly the fact that Ant constantly tries to be divine voice of reason oftenly actively taking sides in threads without adding something to the convertation and the side that has Ant's favor wins no matter the evidence/arguments.

That is both Ant's and the Staff's fault.

All of the staff should try to participate more in Content revision threads in general (don't worry i don't exclude myself), and Ant should stop trying to do everything.

@Ant Instead you should focus on the verses you know just like most people do.

2.Is what Xcano's letter what everyone descibes it to be?

No.He didn't try to throw the wiki into complete chaos, he saw problems that do exist and decided to actually write something about it, without bad mouthing anyone and actually being extremely reasonable and honest.

He said that Prom and Ryukama should be the Bureaucrats, two people that were already going to be promoted into the position.So where exactly is the chaos?

And he also suggested that both Kavpeny and Antvasima could keep their Admin status, which means that they could do whatever they can do now minus the absolute authority over all users.

3.All in all, a smaller amount of staff consisting only of members who are active, participate in content revision threads and do some kind of management work, a very small change in leadership and a more democratical approach to things wouldn't result in the chaos that is described above.

 

[VenomElite]

I'm not gonna feel sorry for anyone after seeing how certian people acted. So what if Xcano was just giving tips or suggestions and not trying to overthrow the wiki? He publicly told Ant and Kav to give up their positions, something people have said in the shadows for an even longer time. "Ant should just retire" just so they can have their way. Seriously. Gwyn, I respect you a lot but you don't even know the full story or the magnitude of it all. Even if Xcano himself is just peacefully retiring, the whole thing turned out to be a chaotic mess, something the people that back him (not all, but some) don't seem to give a shit about, seeing as they have caused utter chaos on the wiki before, are known for being intimidating and harassing others, yet when are confronted about it deny all responsibility. When I was being accused, hated, shunned, etc. yet Ant confronted me about my "behavior" I took responsobility anyway. because I'm an adult. When Sera, my wife was accused of being me on another account, harassed on Discord, and then some, I STILL took responsibility for "causing chaos in the wiki, even though I didn't do anything. What's even funnier is that my sister made a blog about how she was going to leave the wiki due to all of the above yet didn't criticize the wiki in any way or its management. However that blov was deleted due to chaos "utter chaos and disharomy" among the wiki. So now we're all gonna be hyporcirtes and defend Xcano because his intention wasn't bad? How hypocritical. Btw, I STILL took responsibility even for Tsubaki's blog that SHE made and not me. And she's an adult too. So these guys can't just own up to responsibility like I did about four freaking times?

 

[Antvasima]

@Gwynbleiddd

In order:

You do have a good point about that my extremely tired state made me go into stressed out paranoia mode. My apologies to LordXcano for overreacting.

I do agree that we should probably demote a few staff members that have not helped out at all for a long time later on.

Monitoring edits actually usually takes several hours of hard work for me to handle every single day, given that I monitor almost all of the ones made by regular members, and attempt to correct any structural errors, or ask for clarifications about statistics changes.

I do not mind regularly asking very reliable non-staff members for input regarding various verses, but it is hard to find, try to evaluate, and constantly remember them.

Regarding the staff elitism, all that I really want is that the staff should help to try to evaluate all content revision threads in an openminded and levelheaded manner. An awful lot of threads would go unresolved othervise.

I still think that the staff forum is useful to keep around.

You will definitely not get demoted and banned. You are a highly trusted and competent staff member, that has contributed a lot to the wiki.

Again, my apologies for getting out of hand. It was in the middle of the night where I live, and I had worked for 13 hours straight with the wiki two days in a row, not slept well at all, and when I think that there is a potential threat to the wiki I tend to get very worried and stressed out.

As you say, I am consistently working far harder than anybody else in the wiki, considerably more so than what is reflected in my edit count, given that a large part of my work is simply to overview other people's edits, and lock pages. I have also made extreme efforts in recruiting staff, and long-time organising the overall building of a coherent structure for the wiki.

However, as I am the first to admit, I am autistic, very stressed out regarding the overall situation in the world, and also very overworked, so although I am consistently doing my best to be as helpful and reasonable as I can, I definitely have my limitations.

I do however not think that I deserve to be demoted, or that this would solve any long-term problems for the wiki, and Kavpeny has likevise set much of the structure in place that has made the wiki so popular in the first place, and is an invaluable help with input during our private consultations. He is usually doing a lot of work behind the scenes.

As for taking sides in threads and not contributing much input, I usually try to be as reasonable as I can and to bow down when somebody else has better arguments. I am simply trying to help out, usually by doing my job in attempting to evaluate explanations from regular members, and inform the people I know are knowledgeable about the franchises about the threads, so they can go ahead with their edits. If I did not, a large part of all content revisions would never take place, as only the most popular franchises would get any input. The downside, as you say, is that I am trying to do everything at once, and as such cannot afford much time for arguments and discussions.

I do not mind promoting Ryukama, and after a cleared staff survey, Promestein as well (LordXcano only suggested Ryukama btw), but as I mentioned earlier, I think that we should complement, not replace, each other. For example, I am pretty good at managing gradual structural improvements to the wiki, overseeing edits, forgotten content revision threads, managing new staff surveys, and doing a lot of other hard work, Azathoth is good at rational evaluations, Ryukama is hardworking, and good at keeping the staff happy and peaceful, and Promestein is mature, levelheaded, and should be able to keep conflicts in order better than I can.

So basically, although I seem to have overreacted, and feel sorry about it now, I do not believe in that some kind of quick fix among the management would change everything for the better. To be quite honest, this place was mostly a dump when I first came here. Me and Kavpeny have managed to help organise the wiki into an over 30 times more popular site than it was back then, and I am constantly trying to keep track of all potential improvement projects, so the wiki can get better, including your own upcoming Bleach and Naruto revisions, but I try to keep track of lots of them at once, and patiently wait for gradual improvements.

It should also be noted that what mainly made me react is that I thought that LordXcano wanted to abolish our regulations, that keep the site in order.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@Ant That's my point you don't have to monitor everything because in the process you are harming both yourself and the smooth flow of the wiki.

@Venom I really really don't understand where you're coming from.

This isn't about you or the drama that involved you and your family and yet both you and Sera don't stop mentioning it in something totally unrelated.

Also you are implying that there is some sort of vendetta going on against Ant?Created by people who would have reasons to want Ryukama and Prom as the "leaders" of the wiki but Ant is a problem to them????

That makes no sense.

"So now we're all gonna be hyporcirtes and defend Xcano because his intention wasn't bad? How hypocritical. "

Actually you know what is hypocritical?

Not defending Xcano when Kavpeny called him a fool, insulted him and threatened to ban him.And instead play the victim card for something totally unrelated just to further antagonize him.

 

[Antvasima]

LordXcano only suggested Azathoth and Ryukama to run the wiki instead. I was the one who mentioned Promestein. I think that the idea is that they would not be as strict as me or Kavpeny with upholding the rules.

VenomElite's analysis is probably due to the same reasons that I noted in my initial post. I had received various complaints about that we cannot have staff members repeatedly behave as badly as regular members that are banned for the same offenses, so after a long time of attempting to desperately mediate with all parties, I mentioned that I was also tired of this behaviour, and would ask Kavpeny to investigate the matter, in the infamous Pokemon thread, the day right before LordXcano wrote his post.

Some of the members of the Discord group that had been a problem for Matthew, Sera, VenomElite, and their family for quite a long time (Remember that conflict that I PMed everybody in the staff about a while back, and took a lot of extreme effort to sort out?), also immediately responded to and gave thumbs up to LordXcano's suggestio, and as such my paranoia-sensors took notice in the very bad state that I was in yesterday.

 

[Sera_EX]

This is not unrelated. That's what you fail to realize. To explain this would take a damn novel's worth of posts. Xcano has nothing to do with the drama from back then. Duh. I never said he did. But that changes nothing. What Ventus meant was you are quick to defend Xcano from Kavpeny who insulted him (and yes I know that was wrong and Kav later admitted it was).

What you fail to understand is that their antagonism towards Matthew Schroeder which led to the chaos and disorder in the wiki came from Matthew defending Ven and myself a long time ago. That's how it's comnected. You don't know where he's coming from, of coursre you don't. No one's playing the victim card. But where were you to defend Matt all the times he was being ganged up on by Xcano and others? Or before when Grudge swapped his avi to mine on Discord and called himself "Drama Queen". How about the so called "Ven Dynasty"

So do NOT call me a hyprocrite for not "sticking up for Xcano" after what he and his friends have been doing for months now.

"Kav threatened to ban Xcano". Well maybe that was quite harsh but he has made memes of people, intimidated an admin for months now and constantly gangs up on others he doesn't agree with. Yeah...what do you expect?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Please don't jump on me for this but...

To be honest, all parties are wrong here. One one side of the coin, it was unfair for some to just jump against Xcano for his suggestions, and if you don't like them (and let's face it, most don't), just wish the guy farewell and postpone them indefinitely. At the very least be respectful about addressing the stuff, and not then it into what would be a national crisis if it was a country instead of a wiki. Seriously, think of it like that. If someone left suggestions on how to improve say, America, rather than VSBW, would it be like this? Probably a bad example, but my point still stands.

And on the other side, Xcano (and those supporting), this was very poorly handled on your part, and was a really bad decision to post this in the first place, whether you're trying to harm the wiki or not. You have to think proactively. Tensions in the Wiki are high, especially after my Pokémon thread. How you responded was also bad. I'm sorry to be blunt and mean, but you came off as a smug a**hole who believes he's always right and always knows best, whether you wanted to or not. Most of your responses were clearly built in the way that even the average person would be pissed off. That's the epitome of baiting someone, and it's Kav and Ant being baited. And that's not the first time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're the only one. Not in the slightest. Frankly, I'm probably a smug a**hole occasionally. But still. That's something you have to work on. If you really wanted to help this wiki, you would've realized that it would put us in the situation we're in right now. And the argument that this couldn't have been foreseen is poor, as even some tweenage kid with enough time here could see that this would be the most likely turn of events. If you really couldn't foresee this, then that's something else you have to work on.

Keep in mind, I'm trying to remain neutral here, even if I only agree with the staff elitism part of the infamous post.

 

[VenomElite]

How the hell is not defending Xcano hypocritical when he's done so much antagonizing? You don't even know... I was not bringing up that drama to play the victim card. Come on now...I was using myself as an example because I was confronted about my behavior before even though I didn't do anything yet stil took responsibility. You guys are defending Xcano who, despite his intention, caused a schism in the wiki. What? I can't use myself as an example? Fine. How about Matthew Schroeder. Same principle. Confronted about his behavior and more or less took responsibility for his actions even though he was purposefully being baited. I got a multitude of examples so no...don't call me a hypocrite when I was in the same shoes and no one outright defended me now did they?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I tried to defend you and your family Ven. However, I also tried to mediate as much as I could in fear of a massive staff conflict. My apologies for being bad at handling complicated interpersonal drama. I am just an obsessive-compulsive autistic perfectionist. Not exactly built for handling that kind of situation.

 

[Sera_EX]

Regardless, I agree with Cal and what he said is exactly how I feel about this. So yes, it was wrong for Kav to insult Xcano and for everyone to think he did this on purpose but at the same time he did cause a massive problem and could've worded and handled this situation better. To disagree is basically to be biased on his side.

Now then, let's move on, as Arigarmy said, it's been over with. This should've never been reopened to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. It would have been much better if he had simply contacted me, Kavpeny, and Azathoth in private, as our wiki rules require.

I will close this thread until Kavpeny gets the chance to provide a final reply.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

"But where were you to defend Matt all the times he was being ganged up on by Xcano and others? Or before when Grudge swapped his avi to mine on Discord and called himself "Drama Queen". How about the so called "Ven Dynasty"

When was Matthew being ganged up by Xcano and others?

For what i know Matthew is usually the one ready to insult when you argue against him so "ganging up" agaist him is something to be expected.

I don't use Discord nor the chat or anything else, i'm only active on this wiki and on hours most staff members aren't (due to time zones) so how exactly am i supposed to defend everyone?

"Kav threatened to ban Xcano". Well maybe that was quite harsh but he has made memes of people, intimidated an admin for months now and constantly gangs up on others he doesn't agree with. Yeah...what do you expect?

These are some extremely bold claims (without evidence) trying to defend something outrageous.

"So do NOT call me a hyprocrite for not "sticking up for Xcano" after what he and his friends have been doing for months now."

So now it was Xcano that was behind all the drama and the problems?

Also just to get things straight Ven called me a hypocrite first, because i defended Xcano. (!?)

"don't call me a hypocrite when I was in the same shoes and no one outright defended me now did they?"

Still holding on on things unrelated and playing the victim card.

And i don't remember a Bureaucrat publicly insulting you and threatening to ban you.What i actually remember is a lot of mods and admins being extremely nice and ready to defend you against the people that caused the drama.

 

[VenomElite]

Sera would never make any bold claim without evidence. We have evidence (screenshots) we've had them for the longest time but why go back and reveal them now? All that's in the past. Ask Colonel Krukov, Promestein, Byakuya, Redgrave, etc. She's not making that up. Nor am I calling you a hypocrite, I'm saying it would be hypocritical to defend Xcano without acknowledging that he messed up like Cal pointed out and used myself as an example.

Also, a bureacrat didn't threaten to ban me, two discussion mods did and yeah they went as far as to insult me too. Worse, they told TISSG7Redgrave and HimikoWreckmeister not to defend me. So yeah...whatever. This is done and I don' care anymore.

I am not playing the victim card. I'm not holding onto it either. So stop saying that. I have nothing against anyone. I'm tired of being bothered about this mess so I'm letting it all out here. That every afternoon I have to wake up to be messaged by Matt about these guys. Only to see them using bully-mentality. It's not his fault, nor Xcano, Aizen, or anyone else's. I just want people to grow up and get along. Even still I don't have anything against any one of them. Not in the slightest. So how the **** am I holding onto anything? Last time, I was merely using myself as an example.

 

[Tsubaki_Blue]

Enough! Please stop reopening this thread. Therealcalhoward already summed up this entire mess. So there's no need to keep going back and forth. For the record, my brother is not playing the victim card. I know him better than anyone. He's simply using the past as an example because he was in the same position and he is not holding onto anything. That's called a grudge and we do not hold grudges. Ever. Unless you were there on Hangouts following this nonsense since January, you don't and cannot understand so arguing is meaningless.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Perhaps Kavpeny should make his reply before closing this thread.

Although I mostly agree with what KKapoios has stated within this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, considering all of the ridiculous amount of work that I and Kavpeny have spent building the structure of this wiki from the dump that it was when I first came here to the extremely popular place that it is today, I would definitely have appreciated more community support.

It is not fun at all to spend over 7000 hours attempting to build something worthwhile, and to generally be as nice, helpful, and reasonable as you can, and then when you actually do need support and appreciation, due to being attacked together with the very fundaments of what you have attempted to build up, most of what you publicly receive for the time and effort is severe criticism, and demands of demotion.

Oh well, I will continue to try to help this community as best as I can, and definitely don't think that it would be better off without me, given just how many different things that I have continuously done to help it, but I am definitely feeling demoralised right now. I also would not be able to handle my responsibilities well at all without Kavpeny's guidance and support.

For the record, I also still maintain that abolishing our rules and all staff authority to evaluate content revision threads would be an extremely bad idea, as most of the reason for our success is that we have strived for order, structure, cooperation, and a peaceful atmosphere. That a few of the staff members likely need to make an effort to behave better is an entirely different issue.

 

[Ryukama]

Apologies for reopening this. Just wanted to say:

I'm very sorry to hear that you feel that way, Ant. Though I can assure you, the great majority of the users here, especially myself, tremendously appreciate what you've done for this site. And do not want to see you demoted or gone in the absolute slightest.

Thank you for the immense help, effort, improvement and care you brought to the wiki. It certainly would not be anywhere near where it is without you.

And while there is always room for some betterment, I overall respect and agree with many of the management decisions you've made

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you Ryukama.


Also, my apologies for being too paranoid/attentive to patterns. LordXcano showed me a screencapture of that he simply posted a link to his thread in the Discord chat, which is the reason for why certain members responded very quickly. There was apparently no conspiracy, or anything of the sort.

 

[Kavpeny]

My apologies for reopening this thread one (preferably final) time. I would like to state a few things to explain my stance and the reasoning for it. Please note that I don't wan't to revisit this matter, since it has been concluded/left dormant.

The first thing that came to my attention is that members have spoken up in LordXcano's defence by stating that his original intent was not malicious, and as such, he is not to be blamed, and our treatment of him has been unfair. That is your personal opinion, and you have every right to have one.

Nonetheless, I would like to state for the record, that in my personal opinion, I strongly disagree with Xcano being blameless in this affair.

• For starters, I entirely disagree with the premise accepted by Arigarmy and Gwynbleiddd about "suggestions being harmless". Let me state an extremely important rule of communication:
  "What you say is just as important as how you say it."
  A suggestion is not simply it's content, it also involves the context and manner in which it is presented. For instance, one does not "suggest" that a professor not teach a subject "because he is an incompetent moron".
  I am NOT saying that the bureaucrats are above reproach. Hell, I myself have criticized Antvasima at times, and vice-versa. However, both me and Antvasima have always ensured that these criticisms were levelled in a manner and setting where they would indeed be harmless.
  Publicly suggesting (on a highlighted thread, no less) in your retirement post that the community's senior leadership is incompetent and should step down is by no means what I would consider a "harmless" setting, and by proxy, a harmless suggestion.
  Furthermore, its setting in a highlighted thread also forced our hand, and given the nature of the suggestion (including its context), the reply to LordXcano's post was a strong one as well.
• Regarding "intent devoid of maliciousness", I would like to remind everyone that:
  "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
  My interpretation of the above is that in the end, it is actions that matter, far more so than intentions. LordXcano had no malicious intent in his post. Maybe, or maybe not. Since the people speaking up in his defence know him better, I will believe their assertions to be true.
  However, my point stands, that being that the intent behind LordXcano's post, malicious or otherwise, is irrelevant.
  As a member of the community, I care about his actions far more than his intentions. And his action remains unchanged; typing a post which was polarizing to say the least, which in turn caused a great deal of drama, stress, misunderstandings, accusations and arguments among the community, all of which could, and ideally should, have been avoided. He may not have been trying to throw the wiki into chaos, but in the end that's exactly what he accomplished, in an indirect manner.
  The fact remains:
  Regardless of LordXcano's intent, his actions caused a great deal of harm to our community as a whole, escalating tensions and resulting in fierce clashes of opinion. And at the end of it, our strength as a community was left with even greater cracks, and diminished as a whole.

I am not asking everyone to adhere to my opinion. However, I do hope that everyone, after reading this post, understands my point of view, even if they don't agree with it.

I am not so petty as to take offence to a member expressing a difference of opinion, or even preferring a change in leadership. However, it is the consequences of expressing aforementioned opinion in an extremely irresponsible manner, which inevitably resulted in severe consequences for the community, which led to me dealing with LordXcano with a heavy hand.

I am not going to apologize for reacting strongly to the LordXcano's initial post, or in his subsequent interactions.


However, there are three things in which I was in the wrong, and for all three of them, I apologize sincerely, and unreservedly:

• Insulting LordXcano's intelligence: I called LordXcano a short-sighted fool for his suggestions. I am sorry for doing so, LordXcano. I have seen your contributions to the site, in particular, your calculations, and it was both unfair and wrong of me to label you a fool.
• Asking LordXcano to refrain from trolling, or being banned instead: Again, I would like to apologize for this. My attempt was to ask LordXcano to desist from any further rhetoric and seemingly senseless argument, and get the discussion back to the thread's main issue. However, I phrased it incorrectly, and upon re-reading my post, rectified it immediately. Nonetheless, it should not have happened in the first place, and for that, I am sorry.
• Misunderstanding LordXcano as an anarchist: I misunderstood your desire for a massive change for attempts at establishing an anarchy. My deepest apologies for misunderstanding your character so thoroughly.

@Gwynbleiddd: You don't ever have to hesitate about getting banned for expressing your difference of opinion, Gwyn (is it fine if I call you that? Your complete username is too long). I cannot speak for every person in the community, but as far as I'm concerned, I trust you. Even if we are at odds on an issue, I will respect your opinion all the same.

P.S.: As I said at the start, the community seems to have decided to put this issue to bed, and I do not wish to resuscitate it. I wished to share my perspective, is all.

P.P.S.: I know that it is a very long post, but I would appreciate it if everyone could read it patiently, to hopefully understand my opinions on the matter.