Why is Asriel's true power at least High 2-A?

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Azathoth Their profile lists their defense as offense as if they are equal, and you suggested otherwise, that their offense is 4-D while their defense is 5-D.
As for the fight, I'll be looking more into it.

Frisk's profile lists their offense as 2-B and their defense as 2-A. I'm not sure where you're getting otherwise, as I also explicitly listed that their stats come from determination, as well.

Edit: This is what I wrote in the very first line of Frisk's stats (their tier). I think I made it pretty clear how everything is based off Determination.

Low 10-B physically, Up to at least 7-A when filled with enough Determination, Likely 2-B with immense amounts of Determinatio

 

[SpecN]

"2-B: Multiverse level

Characters who can create and/or destroy 1001 to 10^500 universal space-time continuums. 10^500 is the scientifically theorized number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums within our own multiverse."

You got that from Chara destroying time-lines. So 2-B for offense.

"2-A: Multiverse level+
Characters who can instantly create and/or destroy 10^500 to an infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums. "High 2-A" includes 5-dimensional characters."

If their defense is 5-D it should be listed as High 2-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Since I just posted their tiering, this is exactly what I wrote for their defense.

At least Wall level+ normally (Fell down Mount Ebott and into the Underground without any noticeable injuries, Moved around the inner area of Hotland, the outer area of which was hot enough to turn a styrofoam cup to vapor, instantly), Up to at least Mountain level+ when filled with enough Determination (Took numerous blows from Asgore), Likely Multiverse level+ (Took many hits from Asriel, who was unable to kill them even when their soul was destroyed), the ability to SAVE and LOAD makes them nearly impossible to kill by conventional means

 

[Antvasima]

I slightly adjusted the wording of the 2-A category to avoid further misunderstandings. I thought that it was obvious that High 2-A included infinite timelines.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I slightly adjusted the wording of the 2-A category to avoid further misunderstandingx. I thought that it was obvious that High 2-A included infinite timelines.

As did I, though I didn't realize it wasn't listed as such.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I'm pretty sure characters will only be High 2-A for being able to destroy infinite timelines, fiction rarely goes to such a high number without just calling it "infinite".

 

[SpecN]

@Azathoth

Alright, I couldn't find much on the stat change. So I concede, Asriel is 5-D for his stats being listed as "infinite" when Frisk fought him. Although, I still have issues with the following:

1- Why he powers up when showing his true form. (Because a fraction of infinity is still infinity so he shouldn't become more powerful because of the transformation.)

2- The argument from last night on whether Chara was destroying universes or not. Though I won't take it any further, for now, at least, until we get more info from Toby.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. Because being higher than infinity is still infinity, just to a greater degree (which is why there was the "at least" in the first place). When he went full power, Asriel was so powerful, existence collapsed from his presence and Frisk couldn't even do anything but struggle.

2. I'm 100% positive they were, as Prom said, there is absolutely no reason to assume these weren't full fledged continuums, as Occam's Razor leans strongly towards them being so.

 

[SpecN]

@Azathoth So you're saying True Form Asriel is 6-D? Because that would create an issue. Frisk could take hits from TF Asriel, meaning their defense is 6-D, but if that was the case, then all attacks from Asriel should have been no sold as he was only in 5-D in that form. Which did not happen.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, I'm saying we have literally no idea how much stronger full power Asriel was compared to his earlier self, hence why the "at least" was there. We have no frame of reference whatsoever other than "he became immensely stronger".

 

[Antvasima]

I also do not think that full power Asriel is warranted to be assumed to be 6-D. A thousand times 5-D/infinite timelines is still 5-D/infinite timelines.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also do not think that full power Asriel is warranted to be assumed to be 6-D. A thousand times 5-D/infinite timelines is still 5-D/infinite timelines.

Hence why he is still High 2-A. Don't we usually just use "at least" when we know a character is stronger, but to an unknown extent and it is unlikely they break into the next highest tier?

 

[SpecN]

But then that means he didn't power-up. Infinity*100000000000000000000000000000 = Infinity, there's literally no difference, unless he ascended to 6-D.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But then that means he didn't power-up. Infinity*100000000000000000000000000000 = Infinity, there's literally no difference, unless he ascended to 6-D.

Technically, infinity*anything-that-isn't-infinity is still higher, yet still infinity. There's a difference, but from our perspective, it's pretty much meaningless. The problem here is that Asriel's power up was clearly incredibly substantial, but we have zero frame of measurement, for it.

 

[Antvasima]

"At least" heavily implies it being infinitely higher though. Perhaps "Likely" would be better?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"At least" heavily implies it being infinitely higher though. Perhaps "Likely" would be better?

"Likely High 2-A"? Doesn't that make it sound like less than just "High 2-A", though?

 

[SpecN]

Not really, infinity isn't a number it's a concept, multiplying it by anything doesn't really affect it, unless we're talking in relation to our world, in which case, infinity * infinity = adding a dimension. (maybe.)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not really, infinity isn't a number it's a concept, multiplying it by anything doesn't really affect it, unless we're talking in relation to our world, in which case, infinity * infinity = adding a dimension. (maybe.)

It does, but as you said, only in relation to our world, not conceptually. However, that is the problem here, as we have no frame of reference.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Man, is pinpointing Asriel's Power level really hard to do here...

 

[SpecN]

Sooo, what now?

TF Asriel: "High 2-A, Likely Higher."?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Cross

Tell me about it.

@SpecN

Possibly? I don't know. I wonder what Ant thinks of that.

 

[SpecN]

@cross

Blame the creator of the game, he left so many details in the dark.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@cross
Blame the creator of the game, he left so many details in the dark.

Probably his intent. He is used to working with Andrew Hussie, after all.

 

[SpecN]

Who?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The guy who made Homestuck.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, to me "likely" simply means that it is the most likely extent of a character's power. It is a neutral term othervise. Just "High 2-A" also sounds fine, but I am not certain. Maybe you are right, and we should stick with "at least"?

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

Is it still a thing? Some stuff here just don't make too much sense.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Some stuff here just don't make too much sense.

I was about to say the same thing, but you came first...