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like, wtf.
also, does that logic also applies to IRL profiles here? Because we literally can't assume it
also, does that logic also applies to IRL profiles here? Because we literally can't assume it
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Why everything is assumed to have a soul here?
- Thread starter Bernkastelll
- Start date
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Common sense
Since soul manipulation is an ability, it must be proven that a specific character is immune to it. To prove you don't have a soul is like proving you have a resistance, I believe.
Otherwise it would break a lot of things
Since soul manipulation is an ability, it must be proven that a specific character is immune to it. To prove you don't have a soul is like proving you have a resistance, I believe.
Otherwise it would break a lot of things
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- #3
thats not common sense, thats appealing to fantasy in a wrong scenario, while the wiki says that it is a ''indexing site''
That's not even a thing, let's take the Lion, you cannot prove that a IRL Lion have a soul, so, Soul Hax should not work in lions, unless it's proven that a IRL lion have a soul, and the problem is, we do have IRL profiles here, and we cannot assume that IRL have souls
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Real world profiles are another case in point. Just as in fiction we accept that kinetic energy is inconsistent we accept that in the real world it is perfectly correct to use (For obvious reasons)
As far as I know the site has always differentiated between cases in fiction and cases in the real world
As far as I know the site has always differentiated between cases in fiction and cases in the real world
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- #5
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It is more like you can not disprove nor prove a soul can exist in a being or not.
In additional to that, the soul concept originated from discussions in philosophy and certain other circles: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul
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- #7
So, it cannot be assumed to be a thing, that's just, the logic behind of an indexing site
it is not proved, it mainly comes from religion stuff and all, but that's also, not proved either
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To being fair, this is more subjective rather than objective as objectively speaking, we don’t have proof that souls exist yet we also don’t have proof that souls don’t exist as in a way, forms a logical contradiction.
Also you kinda technically make a assumption tbh.
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"It is not proven that they exist"
Just as it is not proven that they do not exist
Proving that there is no soul in a character is like proving that he is resistant to something, since soul manipulation is a common abiliy
Common sense in these cases is correct
Just as it is not proven that they do not exist
Proving that there is no soul in a character is like proving that he is resistant to something, since soul manipulation is a common abiliy
Common sense in these cases is correct
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- #10
but what is even the point of assuming it if there is no proof? it should be a thing only in verses that does states that souls exist, because we have no proof of it, meanwhile, burden of proof
which
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- #11
Yeah, we are not sure if they exist or not, that's why it shouldnt be assumed that it exist, because this is an indexing site, well, I can say that a magical elephant with rainbow wings are a thing, despite no proof of it, so, are we going to assume that it exists?
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Because souls are a common concept in fiction, most stories you read might make references to souls, either it be ghosts, people reincarnating, or afterlife being a thing, is basically a widespread acceptance that everyone has a soul, either it is right or wrong.
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The part with the soul not existing or not as the soul is usually treated as something not physical to begin with and more akin to the spiritual side rather than the physical aspects.
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So, these verses works with souls, cool, doesnt means that souls exist in other verse, as you will need to prove it, and my question was mainly to IRL cases, as we do have IRL profiles, how do we treat it then?
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- #16
but i did not made an assumption? I said that it is not proved, because it isnt
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The assumption that other verses having all beings being soulless is simply not a good idea as you technically have to prove they are in fact actually soulless rather than lifeforms having a soul.
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Also you can make the same argument that irl profiles has never once make the assumption they are a soulless being as well tbh.
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Majority of the people in the world believe in souls / are still religious. While I don’t personally believe in souls I think it should still be the default assumption and will stay that way for a very long time (plus verse equalization means that unless the verse brings it up, they would be applying under the verse saying all living beings have souls. Since the other verse would need to counter that statement to not have souls).
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- #20
I did not assumed that these verses does not have a soul, I said that souls are not proved in the verse, so, you just can't assume that they have souls, as we have literally nothing that shows that it exist, and funily enough, the whole ''Souls exist'' thing comes from literally tales of thousand years ago, like mythologies, and again, mythologies are not proved either
I did not said it, I am literally asking about how we treat the IRL profiles, because different than fiction, which I can understand the soul argument there, IRL is IRL
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think you missed the part of the majority of verses agreeing souls are a thing, if it is a widespread concept, it is accepted because majority matters here for the most time, this isn't even a case of "like 10 verses agree on it", you'll have a hard time finding a single fictional work that doesn't have souls unless they are super IRL-ish.
Doesn't help that majority of the world believes in souls, just like we believe in the big bang and other theories, yeah we have evidence that it might have happened but we don't have proof that it truly did.
IRL profiles are under IRL laws and proven concepts, fictions agrees souls are a thing, IRL has to prove they are.
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"why do we assume everyone to have concept"
"Why do we assume everyone to have a mind"
"Why do we assume everyone to Life force"
Its a endless rabbid whole of metaphysical stuff working to make this hobby of versus debating fun. Some things are simply meant to be accepted, in order for things to work.
"Why do we assume everyone to have a mind"
"Why do we assume everyone to Life force"
Its a endless rabbid whole of metaphysical stuff working to make this hobby of versus debating fun. Some things are simply meant to be accepted, in order for things to work.
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- #23
Cool? it doesnt means that it exists
Yeah, I also asked about it before, iirc, why do we assume it? I can even understand about Mind if people treats Minds as Brain or whatever
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At the same time, we have no evidence it doesn’t exist irl since the soul is being treated as non physical and thereby make it impossible for it to exist or not exist to begin with.
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- #26
And? I do belive that a magical pink elephant with rainbow wings exist, does it means that it exist? As I said, there is no evidence to it, so, why do we assume that it would work?
thats a reverse burden of proof, which just doesnt works
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It does when quite frankly we have no reason to deny or accept the existence of the soul because the lack of evidence rather than just purely burden of proof to begin with.
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Your not the majority of humanity. And souls aren’t something that are really objectively wrong. I, and a lot of people, don’t believe in them. But we are not necessarily correct and majority of people would think we are wrong.
This, again, isn’t a factual debate, it’s entirely based in opinion.
This, again, isn’t a factual debate, it’s entirely based in opinion.
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99% of that thread is because the dude doesn't accept things like common sense or standard assumptions
****, the entire Tier 1 is almost purely assumption
If we have no proof that it exists and it doesn't, what are we going to do? "Deku has immunity to soul manipulation because that concept wasn't explored in the manga", but then someone else says "But at the same time it's never been proven that souls don't exist"; it's simply a cycle without an acceptable assumption
****, the entire Tier 1 is almost purely assumption
If we have no proof that it exists and it doesn't, what are we going to do? "Deku has immunity to soul manipulation because that concept wasn't explored in the manga", but then someone else says "But at the same time it's never been proven that souls don't exist"; it's simply a cycle without an acceptable assumption
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Wait 3000 years, science probably will shift greatly
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Tbf, Tier 2 and Tier 1 did came from the scientific theories that involved the multiverses and other things.
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- #34
if we have no reason to assume that something exist, why are we assuming that it does works in verses that NEVER stated that these things exists are real? look, Atoms exist, we can proof it, so, Atom Manipulation (matter hax) can work, however, Concepts, we have no proofs that concepts exist, so, Conceptual Hax is literally a fantasy, at least for now, unless someone proves it existence
why is it related? does something exist just because majority of humanity or a single person of humanity belives in?
what they think doesnt even matter, as they have 0 proofs of their claims
So, we are assuming that a thing that is not proven and is mainly from fantasy of thousand years ago are real because people wants it to be real?
Assumption is Assumption, so, lols, and I do belive in common sense, but only when the sense is common, such as if someone loses the head, they die, thats a common sense and also proved, but hey.
Nothing
actually, MHA works with life essence, souls of previous heroes or whatever helping them, like what happens to one for all ability, so, it's safe that these things exist in MHA, so, Deku cannot have immunity to soul manip based in these things, but if we take a verse that is totally a human verse, assuming that souls exist is literally reversing the burden of proof
until it, not proved, I legit have no idea of why it is the standard assumption
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- #36
it does comes from math/physic stuff, well, the verses with tier 1 are literally STATED to have these higher dimensions, so, as they stated in the verse, it does exist, I don't see how this is the case of souls
thats actually, the best thing that we have currently
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Tier 1 comes from mathematical models from Set Theory
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It... Really dosnt matter wether or not those concepts are real or not. Its common in fiction, therefor a standard. and it works against IRL because we, as a site whole, agreed to it.
I mean, do we grant IRL profiles immunity to time travel paradoxes because in real life, traveling back to the past is impossible? Are FTL characters now capable of time travel if they fight in the real world universe because physics work like that?
I mean, do we grant IRL profiles immunity to time travel paradoxes because in real life, traveling back to the past is impossible? Are FTL characters now capable of time travel if they fight in the real world universe because physics work like that?
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Not entirely as there are scientific theories and all the stuff.
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so concept hax shouldn't work on verses without concept hax? please do not try to downgrade/upgrade verses based on irl theories unless they are proven to apply without a doubt, don't even touch irl
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