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I think my brain is about to bust after seeing the recent downgrade thread of PMMM generally about reality-fiction transcendence. (As for higher tiering, I think this is were my confusion was when I had asked all those 1-A questions in the previous forum)
Oh and this is my first thread in the new forum (I do apologize if I am making it wrong, or if it's incoherent but I am asking a question so I would like if this would get dismissed as a rookie mistake if it is one, and I am apologizing if I am wasting your time).
Let's begin.
Qualitatively Superior I think means in this wiki is "Higher Dimensions that are so superior to the lower one that it's impossible to compare it in any way". But what makes it so that higher dimensions are superior to lower ones that they can't compare? Oh and idk if this is changed so please mention this to me if it has changed.
Usually being Qualitatively Superior is definitely the way to qualify for higher tiers. Or I generally see someone say "are the Dimensions qualitatively superior to one another" or "does the higher plane demonstrate qualitative superiority in relation to this lower plane " generally something synonymous to establish wether something is higher tiered.
Now let's have a brief review of the ways to qualify for higher tiers. According to the FAQ :
A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
I can understand this (like the relation of just a mere infinitesimal 3D snapshot compared to uncountably infinitely many of those snapshots, 4D) but then here is the other way to apply.
Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni.
According to the FAQ, However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-case-by-case.
Which I think IS referring to higher dimensional Aliens viewing lower dimensional Humans as something akin to fiction doesn't mean it's Infinitely more powerful then lower ones.
But higher dimensional characters should at least be stronger in relation to lower ones right?
But the thing is, they may not be stronger according to :
(With the reasons already provided) a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.
So to me (clear this up if I am wrong), a character in a higher plane may still be weaker even if it does look at a lower one as fiction.
But then we go on to mentioning "Transcendence".
Now, one of the most common scenarios where this question might arise is when dealing with cosmologies involving "higher planes of existence" or similar structures. In such cases, it's very important to note what exactly being a "higher plane" entails in the context of the setting: For instance, it's very common for Heaven and Hell to be defined as higher and lower planes of existence respectively in relation to the normal universe, in which case, "higher" and "lower" tends to simply indicate their position in a cosmology, as opposed to any kind of existential status, which is obviously not enough for anything remotely Tier 1.
They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.
Does simply being higher dimensional that perceives lower realms as fiction yet can still weaker mean it's qualitatively superior?
- I mean to me, I can definitely understand if a higher world is more real in nature, like the difference of fire we see in fiction and fire in real life. Well you can't REALLY compare what's real and what's fake and what's real can clearly affect one rather than that's fake. Like how a flamethrower fire in real life would pretty much burn someone here as opposed to a fictional one. And if this is the case, I can accept this as being Qualitatively Superior to lower ones.
TL;DR
Now going through all of this, I think the only ways of being Qualitatively Superior is by being Explicitly Infinitely Above power and/or Existential wise or VERY LARGE in comparison to lower (that lower worlds are infinitesimal "subsets").
But I think I've recently seen
Merely being higher dimensional that views lower stuff as akin to fiction can still mean you are weaker yet it does mean you are touching tier 2 and above? - Maybe as what's fake can't affect what's real in comparison and that it is superior to something that's not even existent.
What does it mean to be Qualitatively Superior? Is it literally what I just described it to be or if it is something else, please elaborate.
Oh and this is my first thread in the new forum (I do apologize if I am making it wrong, or if it's incoherent but I am asking a question so I would like if this would get dismissed as a rookie mistake if it is one, and I am apologizing if I am wasting your time).
Let's begin.
Qualitatively Superior I think means in this wiki is "Higher Dimensions that are so superior to the lower one that it's impossible to compare it in any way". But what makes it so that higher dimensions are superior to lower ones that they can't compare? Oh and idk if this is changed so please mention this to me if it has changed.
Usually being Qualitatively Superior is definitely the way to qualify for higher tiers. Or I generally see someone say "are the Dimensions qualitatively superior to one another" or "does the higher plane demonstrate qualitative superiority in relation to this lower plane " generally something synonymous to establish wether something is higher tiered.
Now let's have a brief review of the ways to qualify for higher tiers. According to the FAQ :
A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
I can understand this (like the relation of just a mere infinitesimal 3D snapshot compared to uncountably infinitely many of those snapshots, 4D) but then here is the other way to apply.
Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni.
According to the FAQ, However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-case-by-case.
Which I think IS referring to higher dimensional Aliens viewing lower dimensional Humans as something akin to fiction doesn't mean it's Infinitely more powerful then lower ones.
But higher dimensional characters should at least be stronger in relation to lower ones right?
But the thing is, they may not be stronger according to :
(With the reasons already provided) a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.
So to me (clear this up if I am wrong), a character in a higher plane may still be weaker even if it does look at a lower one as fiction.
But then we go on to mentioning "Transcendence".
Now, one of the most common scenarios where this question might arise is when dealing with cosmologies involving "higher planes of existence" or similar structures. In such cases, it's very important to note what exactly being a "higher plane" entails in the context of the setting: For instance, it's very common for Heaven and Hell to be defined as higher and lower planes of existence respectively in relation to the normal universe, in which case, "higher" and "lower" tends to simply indicate their position in a cosmology, as opposed to any kind of existential status, which is obviously not enough for anything remotely Tier 1.
They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.
Does simply being higher dimensional that perceives lower realms as fiction yet can still weaker mean it's qualitatively superior?
- I mean to me, I can definitely understand if a higher world is more real in nature, like the difference of fire we see in fiction and fire in real life. Well you can't REALLY compare what's real and what's fake and what's real can clearly affect one rather than that's fake. Like how a flamethrower fire in real life would pretty much burn someone here as opposed to a fictional one. And if this is the case, I can accept this as being Qualitatively Superior to lower ones.
TL;DR
Now going through all of this, I think the only ways of being Qualitatively Superior is by being Explicitly Infinitely Above power and/or Existential wise or VERY LARGE in comparison to lower (that lower worlds are infinitesimal "subsets").
But I think I've recently seen
Merely being higher dimensional that views lower stuff as akin to fiction can still mean you are weaker yet it does mean you are touching tier 2 and above? - Maybe as what's fake can't affect what's real in comparison and that it is superior to something that's not even existent.
What does it mean to be Qualitatively Superior? Is it literally what I just described it to be or if it is something else, please elaborate.
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