What ability is this (part 97383738th)

[MSahla]

What abilities for governing the foundational laws of reality in the entire universe besides just Law Manipulation? This includes the fundamental principles of perception and the natural order that governs common sense itself.

 

[Bobsican]

Logic Manipulation or Causality Manipulation, depending on the details of how it works and has been applied.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Perception Manipulation and potentially Logic Manipulation, depending on how 'Reason' is described.

 

[MSahla]

Perception Manipulation and potentially Logic Manipulation, depending on how 'Reason' is described.

It described as these:

the fundamental principles of perception and the natural order that governs common sense itself.

And it can even erase the rationale that sustain one's entire existence.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Then yeah this sounds like Logic Manipulation.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Then yeah this sounds like Logic Manipulation.

You need explicit contradictions to happen for logic manip. Getting rid of rationale behind someones existence doesnt really qualify. It feels like logic manip has been slowly misunderstood and washed down over time from what DT originally proposed and got accepted.

 

[MSahla]

You need explicit contradictions to happen for logic manip. Getting rid of rationale behind someones existence doesnt really qualify. It feels like logic manip has been slowly misunderstood and washed down over time from what DT originally proposed and got accepted.

Well, is it always about contradictions? Sounds more like Paraconsistent instead, cmiiw. In this context though, it is rejecting the logical basis upon which that being is recognized by reality. In other words, reality itself no longer accepts that being as a valid existence because the governing principle of Reason has denied it.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Well, is it always about contradictions? Sounds more like Paraconsistent instead, cmiiw. In this context though, it is rejecting the logical basis upon which that being is recognized by reality. In other words, reality itself no longer accepts that being as a valid existence because the governing principle of Reason has denied it.

Yes you need to clearly violate the three laws of thought. Manipulating logic even as a governing force does not qualify. DT was very adamant about needing to clearly show logical contradictions being made rather than manipulating some force a verse calls logic.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yes you need to clearly violate the three laws of thought. Manipulating logic even as a governing force does not qualify. DT was very adamant about needing to clearly show logical contradictions being made rather than manipulating some force a verse calls logic.

Logic Manipulation Addition Thread

So, Logic Manipulation is a thing now. Hence, for a limited time only, say if you want it added in this thread and, if it's sufficiently obvious, we can approve it right here. Might take the best suggestions as an example for the page as well. If any other staff feel like helping with the...

vsbattles.com

DT literally prefaces the thread saying a rule of logic must be broken (contradiction) in order to get it

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

You need explicit contradictions to happen for logic manip. Getting rid of rationale behind someones existence doesnt really qualify. It feels like logic manip has been slowly misunderstood and washed down over time from what DT originally proposed and got accepted.

I don't know; they seem to match this part about deductive reasoning.

Logic is defined in the real world as the study of correct reasoning. Translating this to fiction, manipulation of logic would essentially involve manipulating the rules governing deductive reasoning.

Plus, one of the use cases for Logic Manipulation is Logic Deletion.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I don't know; they seem to match this part about deductive reasoning.

Plus, one of the use cases for Logic Manipulation is Logic Deletion.

The ability has to be done through contradictions/work off logical contradictions.

Also an example example of requiring contradictions

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/page-7#profile-post-107868

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

The ability has to be done through contradictions/work off logical contradictions.

Also an example example of requiring contradictions

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/page-7#profile-post-107868

So Logic Manipulation is less about actually manipulating Logic, and more about contradicting established Logic.

That's odd.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So Logic Manipulation is less about actually manipulating Logic, and more about contradicting established Logic.

That's odd.

Yea its meant to be a lot stricter than other metaphysical aspects where you can simply just mention them to qualify.

 

[Mbpoops]

So Logic Manipulation is less about actually manipulating Logic, and more about contradicting established Logic.

That's odd.

Everyone thinks its odd but thats why only anos has it (idk any other verse that does)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yea its meant to be a lot stricter than other metaphysical aspects where you can simply just mention them to qualify.

Huh.

Well, is it always about contradictions? Sounds more like Paraconsistent instead, cmiiw. In this context though, it is rejecting the logical basis upon which that being is recognized by reality. In other words, reality itself no longer accepts that being as a valid existence because the governing principle of Reason has denied it.

So I guess you could get AE, because they are talking about Logic, but not in the way that would garner Logic Manipulation.

Everyone thinks its odd but thats why only anos has it (idk any other verse that does)

YTSY does.

 

[Mbpoops]

YTSY does.

its chinese ofc it does

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Everyone thinks its odd but thats why only anos has it (idk any other verse that does)

this does

Getting logic manip and a few out of the way for a verse to come in the distant future (Godclads/Deathless)

So I just wanna get this accepted since it's quite a broad ability or power system. There's no question about the verses notability since it is officially published by multiple publishers. Profiles are planned for the future. So first I'll start with logic manip. Gods and Godclads are able to...

vsbattles.com

 

[MSahla]

So I guess you could get AE, because they are talking about Logic, but not in the way that would garner Logic Manipulation.

AE? As in Abstract Existence?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

AE? As in Abstract Existence?

Yes, you can have Logic/Reason based AE, since, as I said, this does seem to be logic, just not in the way of Logic Manipulation.

 

[MSahla]

Yes, you can have Logic/Reason based AE, since, as I said, this does seem to be logic, just not in the way of Logic Manipulation.

You mean for the being whose rationale got erased, right? Is that Type 1 or 2

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

You mean for the being whose rationale got erased, right? Is that Type 1 or 2

Having your rationale/logic erased would either be Resistance or Immunity to Logic Manipulation. But if any characters embody reason, or are those laws themselves they could gain AE.

 

[MSahla]

Having your rationale/logic erased would either be Resistance or Immunity to Logic Manipulation. But if any characters embody reason, or are those laws themselves they could gain AE.

Ahh, I get what you mean by AE, I thought you're referring to those whose rationale got erased.

 

[Kavliaris]

The ability has to be done through contradictions/work off logical contradictions.

Also an example example of requiring contradictions

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/page-7#profile-post-107868

If that the case, nomological concept just concept with weird law on it?