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Warrior of light revision FF14

Npc170

Npc170

241
63
Alright, this bullshit has gone on long enough. the profile has been abandoned for some time and no one has come and fixed it yet so I just gonna leave a few words. Warrior of light and anyone he scales to him in FF14 is neither 2-C nor 2-A but instead, 7-B in ARR scaling from various Primal who could cause natural disasters like earth wake, tsunami, storm, etc higher in each following expansion then 7-A by shadowbringer scaling from Vauthry who rip a huge mountain from the ground and levitate it in the air and then finally unknow higher than before in Endwalker scaling from Zodiak and hydaelyn. Then even higher when empower by dynamis during the final boss fight.

The reason for this is while FF14 characters may have the same name as another character in another game that does not mean they are the same character. We have learned that in FF14 the source and its reflection/shard including the void in FF14 are planets, not universes. Gilgamesh is never proven to be the same Gilgamesh in ff5 and the Exdeath fight takes place in Omega simulation which means its power should be weaker or equal to how powerful FF14 Omega is.

Also, to whoever wrote the thing in the talk section I just want to clear something up the endsinger is not an abstract entity or the manifestation of despair she is simply an entelechy which is a creature made entirely of Dynamis. Dynamis is simply just energy that reacts to and can be manipulated by strong emotion.
 
We have learned that in FF14 the source and its reflection/shard including the void in FF14 are planets, not universes.
Click to expand...

Why?

Prove that Gilgamesh in FF14 is a different Gilgamesh, he's shown to be the same person as the one from other games so it'd be weird for him to just not be the same in this game

The Exdeath the Warrior fought still has the power of all creation, so it should be worded as "defeated a clone of Exdeath that has the power to control all creation and the full power of the Void which can destroy all dimensions and existence"
 
Final Fantasy profiles are being worked on, but I believe @HST_Master is one of our biggest Final Fantasy experts who tackled this kind of stuff.
 
There's a lot more evidence for him being the same Gilgamesh from the rest of the franchise than there is for him being his own Gilgamesh. The guy has the verifiable ability to traverse the Interdimensional Rift, and as of Endwalker outright left the XIV universe to go after someone in another world entirely. Likely Bartz considering the whole thing with Enkidu earlier and what his general overall story mythos tends to be, but that part is kept a little vague.

Even if you disregard statements on Omega being able to recreate entities from both myth and reality with the power that it believes they have and it having zero belief that they're weaker in any way, its defeat caused the Interdimensional Rift to collapse to begin with. It also seems pretty capable of recreating things such as the effects of the void as well to some extent. That's not Tier 7. Recreating Chaos at all and having any faith in any ability that it's even somewhat similar is still Tier 2. And we do know that Omega has been able to observe at least some other Final Fantasy universes, as he outright references the Chocobo Mystery Dungeon series by creating Alpha who is based off of another Chocobo that defeated a different Omega that it stated was its equal.

"But Cid said that he didn't understand them so they couldn't reach their full power!" Yeah sure. That's why their non-Savage selves didn't have their super forms. That's definitely true. The capability of beating the Savage fight is still arguable to be canon enough for this wiki (or else we just remove every superboss that has even any sort of link to any sort of main story), but even without that, Chaos still exists and you still beat him. And even without that, you beat Omega twice and its second defeat causes the Interdimensional Rift to collapse on itself. (I do think that the 'stronger than canon versions' of the various characters is kinda bull though)

The Warring Triad also have multiple infinite power statements to begin with. I don't know why they do, but they do, so they're definitely not Tier 7 even as of Heavensward.

Also, while we've definitely learned things about the Source and its reflections in that they're decently interlinked, they're still kinda vague on it being the universe or the planet plus a bit more, since each planet does have its own moon, and we know that a verifiable Dragon Egg was found on the first shard which shouldn't have been able to happen if it was just a planetary thing (We know Midgardsormr came after the Sundering). I'm not gonna fully say that it's confirmed to be one way or the other, but saying that it's verified to just be a planet isn't fully accurate by this point. Likely, but inaccurate.

Either way Hydaelyn heavily affected space-time when sundering the shards.

I do agree that we need to find a better rating than 2-C for base ARR, pre-Gilgamesh, but lord knows I don't know how to calc Garuda's storm which would be the best feat pre-Greg. Also the 2-C scaling in base ARR should just be Gilgamesh (2 universes), not Cloud of Darkness (12 universes). So I don't mind a downgrade on the level of 2-C that the Warrior of Light has starting at that point.

Also, the Warrior of Light doesn't even really have anything from Endwalker to begin with yet, honestly. That being said, while the Endsinger isn't literally a manifestation of despair, she does still get reality warping via emotional manipulation which is one of the funniest ability interactions I've seen.
 
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ZetaMarishi said:
Also, the Warrior of Light doesn't even really have anything from Endwalker to begin with yet, honestly. That being said, while the Endsinger isn't literally a manifestation of despair, she does still get reality warping via emotional manipulation which is one of the funniest ability interactions I've seen.
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Why would the Endsinger get reality warping via emotional manipulation
 
Because her ability is effectively to give her emotions to others and to recieve emotions from others. That's just how she works and is how she can talk to people without using her voice. It just so happens that it interacts with dynamis very effectively.
 
ZetaMarishi said:
Because her ability is effectively to give her emotions to others and to recieve emotions from others. That's just how she works and is how she can talk to people without using her voice. It just so happens that it interacts with dynamis very effectively.
Click to expand...
Lets collab on an endwalker crt
 
Zeta already responded to the more important stuff, so I'll handle the "before fighting Gilgamesh" key scaling stuff.

The reason WoL's tier in his first key hasn't been changed yet is because until real ******* recently (if this response even counts) I haven't been able to find anyone willing to calc Garuda's feat of creating the Eye of the Storm, alongside other more notable feats (read; the Susano LS feat), and also because I'm planning to downgrade that key once I finally get off my lazy arse and publish the major Endwalker CRT.
 
Shmooply said:
Zeta already responded to the more important stuff, so I'll handle the "before fighting Gilgamesh" key scaling stuff.

The reason WoL's tier in his first key hasn't been changed yet is because until real ******* recently (if this response even counts) I haven't been able to find anyone willing to calc Garuda's feat of creating the Eye of the Storm, alongside other more notable feats (read; the Susano LS feat), and also because I'm planning to downgrade that key once I finally get off my lazy arse and publish the major Endwalker CRT.
Click to expand...
What evidence is there that this scales to physicals or durability?
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Why?

Prove that Gilgamesh in FF14 is a different Gilgamesh, he's shown to be the same person as the one from other games so it'd be weird for him to just not be the same in this game

The Exdeath the Warrior fought still has the power of all creation, so it should be worded as "defeated a clone of Exdeath that has the power to control all creation and the full power of the Void which can destroy all dimensions and existence"
Click to expand...
Prove to me without a shred of doubt that FF14 is the same Gilgamesh then the burden of proof is on anyone who claims that he is.

The Exdeath line is a classic textbook villain monologue boasting about how powerful they are and it literally proves nothing and provided no quantifiable feat.

Let's take in the full context of the fight. Omega is trying to create a powerful opponent to test itself and become more powerful, Omega then creates being from myth and legend or just fantasy of Etheirys. So what he is Simulating is the Etheirys version of the character not the original and thus whatever he creating can not be stronger than FF14 Omega.
 
Npc170 said:
Prove to me without a shred of doubt that FF14 is the same Gilgamesh then the burden of proof is on anyone who claims that he is.

The Exdeath line is a classic textbook villain monologue boasting about how powerful they are and it literally proves nothing and provided no quantifiable feat.

Let's take in the full context of the fight. Omega is trying to create a powerful opponent to test itself and become more powerful, Omega then creates being from myth and legend or just fantasy of Etheirys. So what he is Simulating is the Etheirys version of the character not the original and thus whatever he creating can not be stronger than FF14 Omega.
Click to expand...
You're the one trying to say that he's not. Prove to us without a shadow of a doubt that he's not the same Gilgamesh despite there being evidence of him being so. That is what's currently accepted on the site.
 
ZetaMarishi said:
The Warring Triad also have multiple infinite power statements to begin with. I don't know why they do, but they do, so they're definitely not Tier 7 even as of Heavensward.
Click to expand...
Yeah no that's just a bunch of statements that shouldn't be taken literally. Primal get stronger base on how much aether is provided to them and their is a finite amount of aether in the universe as we have learn in Endwalker.
ZetaMarishi said:
they're still kinda vague on it being the universe or the planet plus a bit more, since each planet does have its own moon
Click to expand...
It is a single planet Hydaelyn just cast each shard into a separate dimension that already existed. That Cutscene with Emet in shadow bringer clearly shows that it is a single star and Endwalker just cemented it further.
 
ZetaMarishi said:
You're the one trying to say that he's not. Prove to us without a shadow of a doubt that he's not the same Gilgamesh despite there being evidence of him being so. That is what's currently accepted on the site.
Click to expand...
If something is unable to be proven either way then it shouldn't be used as evidence then that is just common sense. I just read the profile and saw no justification proving that he is the same Gilgamesh and thus the scaling should be null.
 
Npc170 said:
Yeah no that's just a bunch of statements that shouldn't be taken literally. Primal get stronger base on how much aether is provided to them and their is a finite amount of aether in the universe as we have learn in Endwalker.

It is a single planet Hydaelyn just cast each shard into a separate dimension that already existed. That Cutscene with Emet in shadow bringer clearly shows that it is a single star and Endwalker just cemented it further.
Click to expand...
Zurvan literally controls the endless expanse of infinity as per the databook. I don't know what to tell you. That's unironically just a thing. In addition to multiple infinite power statements otherwise.

And once again, you can't prove that since there are at least some minor inconsistencies to it being only a star, such as the broken dragon egg. Granted, I mostly agree with it being a star and some change, but you can't explicitly prove that.

Also, once again, Enkidu and the ability to go into the rift as well as him mentioning having a score to settle while dropping them back off.

Even if we ignore all of that, the Interdimensional Rift still collapsed after Omega's defeat. An area that is large enough to have what looks like a galaxy within it.

Not to mention, even if we go super lowball with it, Tier 7 still isn't even consistent because of the FFXV crossover which takes place during 2.X, as well as the FFXIII crossover, both of which are referenced in their original game series to begin with. Not to mention Nier content which is still canon to FFXIV (And vice versa).
 
ZetaMarishi said:
In addition to multiple infinite power statements otherwise.
Click to expand...
And I will say again that is not how primal work lore-wise. That is just hyperbole to hype them up.
ZetaMarishi said:
And once again, you can't prove that since there are at least some minor inconsistencies to it being only a star, such as the broken dragon egg. Granted, I mostly agree with it being a star and some change, but you can't explicitly prove that.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can prove that It is only a star.

Here Emet talking about the sundering and how Hydaelyn power work


1:03:27

Here is Herme talking about Etheriys and how it is like other stars.


21:10
ZetaMarishi said:
Even if we ignore all of that, the Interdimensional Rift still collapsed after Omega's defeat. An area that is large enough to have what looks like a galaxy within it.
Click to expand...
It was clear in that cutscene that we were viewing Omega's memory of interstellar travel it is just scenery and nothing else.

ZetaMarishi said:
Not to mention, even if we go super lowball with it, Tier 7 still isn't even consistent because of the FFXV crossover which takes place during 2.X, as well as the FFXIII crossover, both of which are referenced in their original games to begin with. Not to mention Nier content which is still canon to FFXIV (And vice versa).
Click to expand...
Tier 7 is just something I suggest since we could do cal off of natural disasters and stuff it could be way higher than that when the cal is done, I just look at the most quantifiable feat so far and point to that. earthquake feat tends to be tier 7 and the mountain feat is what I got when looking at our tiering system 7-A large mountain level. If anything scaling to 2B and 9S makes the most sense and would put us right in high 7-A and 6-C

personally, I think the warrior of light should at the very least be High 6-A to low 5-B scaling from Hydaelyn and Zodiark. and muti galaxy level when empower by dynamis and fighting Meteion since she could accelerate the heat death of the universe.
 
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Npc170 said:
And I will say again that is not how primal work lore-wise. That is just hyperbole to hype them up.

Yes, I can prove that It is only a star.

Here Emet talking about the sundering and how Hydaelyn power work


1:03:27

Here is Herme talking about Etheriys and how it is like other stars.


21:10

It was clear in that cutscene that we were viewing Omega's memory of interstellar travel it is just scenery and nothing else.


Tier 7 is just something I suggest we could do cal off of natural disasters and stuff it could be way higher than that when the cal is done, I just look at the most quantifiable feat so far and point to that. earthquake feat tends to be tier 7 and the mountain feat is what I got when looking at our tiering system 7-A large mountain level. If anything scaling to 2B and 9S makes the most sense and would put us right in high 7-A and 6-C

personally, I think the warrior of light should at the very least be High 6-A to low 5-B scaling from Hydaelyn and Zodiark. and muti galaxy level when empower by dynamis and fighting Meteion since she could accelerate the heat death of the universe.
Click to expand...

I know how primals work in-lore, but I don't know what to tell you. You can argue some of it to be hyperbole, but definitely not Zurvan's ability which is explicitly stated to be what I mentioned. I literally quoted Encyclopedia Eorzea off for the endless expanse of infinity for that one. It could be a spatial manipulation thing on his end, admittedly. I'm not actually against that interpretation.

Hermes's speech has literally nothing to do with the sundering. Emet's at least points to it being more based around the star yeah, but reminder that every star has its own moon, so it might be actively a bit stronger than just a planetary sundering even on its own. I think there were a couple things even in the in-game lore guide that might have more weight than just H6A/L5B, but I don't want to open the game right now.

Also, I'll be honest, I'm not even sure if that was clear. Even still, it was a physical location you were in that collapsed upon Omega's death, and while that is a possible interpretation, that also was not stated either. Honestly, you're the first person I've ever seen to say that and it's not like I don't talk about the lore a lot off site on non-power scaling related matters.

Gilgamesh also still exists and I'm still going to say he's the same Gilgamesh that's in most final fantasy games. I personally think he has enough evidence to be so. I'm also not fully convinced on Omega raid stuff not scaling higher than what was stated here, truth be told. Especially when it comes to shit like Kefka not actually having an Etheirys counterpart in the slightest, so that can't even work into that whole thing.

Also I'll at least say this. Thank you for not being someone who thinks Ancients > Meteion (while in Ultima Thule).
 
ZetaMarishi said:
I know how primals work in-lore, but I don't know what to tell you. You can argue some of it to be hyperbole, but definitely not Zurvan's ability which is explicitly stated to be what I mentioned. I literally quoted Encyclopedia Eorzea off for the endless expanse of infinity for that one. It could be a spatial manipulation thing on his end, admittedly. I'm not actually against that interpretation.
Click to expand...
If you know how primal works then you know that what was written is only hyperbole no matter how it is stated. It's probably just an exaggeration of his spatial manipulation ability as you said.
ZetaMarishi said:
Hermes's speech has literally nothing to do with the sundering. Emet's at least points to it being more based around the star yeah, but reminder that every star has its own moon, so it might be actively a bit stronger than just a planetary sundering even on its own. I think there were a couple things even in the in-game lore guide that might have more weight than just H6A/L5B, but I don't want to open the game right now.
Click to expand...
Hermes pointed out that Etheriys is a star like any other in the universe. Considering that Zodiark prison is the moon and he was shattered into pieces it wouldn't be unbelievable that each moon was crafted by Venat/Hyadelyn to imprison a shard of Zodiark. She was at her strongest during and right after sundering after all but then again that is speculation so let just say the moon was sunder along with the star and Zodiark.
ZetaMarishi said:
Also, I'll be honest, I'm not even sure if that was clear. Even still, it was a physical location you were in that collapsed upon Omega's death, and while that is a possible interpretation, that also was not stated either. Honestly, you're the first person I've ever seen to say that and it's not like I don't talk about the lore a lot off site on non-power scaling related matters.
Click to expand...
The place in which the raid takes part in is a pocket dimension that changes its scenery to whatever Omega wants. It is a large physical space obviously but galaxy size and contains countless actual stars no, it is not that part is just scenery. If you want to claim otherwise then we need proof.
ZetaMarishi said:
Gilgamesh also still exists and I'm still going to say he's the same Gilgamesh that's in most final fantasy games. I personally think he has enough evidence to be so. I'm also not fully convinced on Omega raid stuff not scaling higher than what was stated here, truth be told. Especially when it comes to shit like Kefka not actually having an Etheirys counterpart in the slightest, so that can't even work into that whole thing.
Click to expand...
And once again I'm asking for absolute proof that this is the same Gilgamesh these are big scaling and should have iron-clad evidence to back it up. In the raid description, it is only mentioned that this Kefka only cast his planet into ruin and so should be treated as such, remember FF14 Omega has been to multiple worlds in the same universe before and this Kefka could either be an actual being that it encounters or myth from other civilization not necessary Etheirys.
 
Npc170 said:
If you know how primal works then you know that what was written is only hyperbole no matter how it is stated. It's probably just an exaggeration of his spatial manipulation ability as you said.

Hermes pointed out that Etheriys is a star like any other in the universe. Considering that Zodiark prison is the moon and he was shattered into pieces it wouldn't be unbelievable that each moon was crafted by Venat/Hyadelyn to imprison a shard of Zodiark. She was at her strongest during and right after sundering after all.

The place in which the raid takes part in is a pocket dimension that changes its scenery to whatever Omega wants. It is a large physical space obviously but galaxy size and contains countless actual stars no, it is not that part is just scenery. If you want to claim otherwise then we need proof.

And once again I'm asking for absolute proof that this is the same Gilgamesh these are big scaling and should have iron-clad evidence to back it up. In the raid description, it is only mentioned that this Kefka only cast his planet into ruin and so should be treated as such, remember FF14 Omega has been to multiple worlds in the same universe before and this Kefka could either be an actual being that it encounters or myth from other civilization not necessary Etheirys.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I do not have absolute proof that it is the same Gilgamesh. I have a lot of speculation that points to it being the same Gilgamesh, and he would overall make literally zero sense if he wasn't, especially after the ending of Stormblood's Hildibrand questline and currently throughout Endwalker's continuation, but there is no explicit statement. There usually never is except for in guidebooks unless you're Dissidia.

Also, Zurvan's not even hyperbole. It's just possible that it's not direct AP. I fully believe he has that ability assigned to him. It would literally make no sense if he didn't.

That being said, eh whatever. I don't really care enough to continue arguing. If people end up not believing Gilgamesh to be from V and most of the rest of the franchise, then that's honestly no real skin off my nose. I will concede on Omega, though. While I personally believe he's more than what is fully shown here, there's no hard proof of it. Just the implication that the stories and happenings should be the same as how the games presented them.
 
Npc170 said:
Is the storm feat really the best feat in ARR just asking out of curiosity.
Click to expand...
Probably? There's a lot of stuff from ARR that nobody bothered to check (like the WoL resisting paralysis and corrosion as early as level 1, or him having combat-applicable low-mid regen, which will also be tackled when I finally make the ******* CRT), doesn't Titan also have a good feat of making his arena crack with a single stomp?
 
There might be some other stuff buried in 2.X, but as of 2.0, yeah. Not like anyone scales to things like Calamity Bahamut until Stormblood, and a lot of 2.0 is just beating up the Empire and relatively small time threats.
 
leviathan should have a tsunami feat and titan have an earthquake feat if I remember correctly. how would those feats compare to the storm feat?
 
I doubt Titan's feat would yield anything higher than tier 7, Leviathan's tsunami feat could yield some interesting results though. I'll take screenshots of the Titan fight first.
 
Shmooply said:
I'll take screenshots of the Titan fight first.
Click to expand...
Oh, right, I'm dumb.
unknown.png
 
Shmooply said:
I doubt Titan's feat would yield anything higher than tier 7, Leviathan's tsunami feat could yield some interesting results though. I'll take screenshots of the Titan fight first.
Click to expand...
Any progress on the storm or tsunami feat?
 
Npc170 said:
well I got a quote from the titan extreme quest line if you want it
Click to expand...
Aye, this will work as a good supporting feat.

Completely forgot this thread even existed, but might as well continue it. Titan's feat in his fight doesn't seem like it'll yield any impressive results, so I guess I'll see if Leviathan's feat seems calc-worthy. still dont know why we are doing this when garudas feat is probably the best thing we got
 
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