Wally West vs Pegasus Seiya

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You do know that Gaia split much of her true power to create Pontus and Uranus, as well as create the Sohmas of the 12 Titans, right? Also, Zeus had help from the other 11 Olympians against her, that's hardly fair.

And yes, claiming that a character is infinite, without any feat to back it up, at best puts him at a Dimension Higher than the other characters. Not that he is infinite, cause that would be a Tier 0.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And I shall refrain from discussing. In my eyes you ignored most, if not all of my points and arguments, just repeating that it's written in the Hypermyth without refuting my claims about the Hypermyth.

Anyway, all your arguments are irrelevant cause they don't apply to Seiya, and this match is inconclusive cause Wally can't hurt Seiya while Seiya can't touch Wally.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Infinite energy doesn't make you higher dimensional at all..... Nor tier 0 .....

Spiral energy from gurren Lagan is infinite they're still 4-D characters....

Zeus>Cronus>Uranus>Gaia

 

[Panemorfos]

Zeus and all the other olympian gods was originally humans who raised their cosmo so high that they became gods. The primordial gods were gods from the beginning. This shows that humans can obtain the big will as well if they try.

Just saying. Not that it matters in the fight.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Seriously though think before saying all this nonsense about energy amounting to higher dimensional powers and whatnot.I never implied anyone was anywhere near the lvls you assumed.You just jump to conclusions with no basis whatsoever.

 

[RouninOtaku]

I love both characters (I like Barry more than Wally and Seiya) Though, even with Seiya getting a significant speed boost in God cloth... It's nowhere near Wally. Seiya is a lucky man to have the 8th sense. I can only see this fight ending with a draw. Wally can't do anything to Seiya due to 8th sense and Seiya isn't gonna be touching him.

 

[Oblivion00]

Seiya is not going to touch Wally at all. However Wally won't be able to kill him due to 8th sense. This match is a win via any means but it's most likely going to be inconclusive.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Seiya is not going to touch Wally at all. However Wally won't be able to kill him due to 8th sense. This match is a win via any means but it's most likely going to be inconclusive.

If only DBS had some hax, but Toriyama is too lazy to write it -_-

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Seiya is not going to touch Wally at all. However Wally won't be able to kill him due to 8th sense. This match is a win via any means but it's most likely going to be inconclusive.

Wally doesn't need to kill Seiya, he merely needs to incapacitate him by rendering him completely unable to generate momentum.

 

[Naitez]

Which he can't do because he can't do touch him due to Seiya's unique life state from the 8th Sense and he doesn't have the hax to bypass it.

 

[Panemorfos]

I want to ask a few questions about Wally's abilities and HOW they are portryed in the comics, with scans if possible or a link to find them myself.

Has Flash ever used Speed Steal against opponents of Odin's level ( ik Odin is from Marvel and Flash from DC)? Has Speed Steal ever given him the victory against a universal being? Has it ever been used succesfully against chars with divine protection?

The only thing i am hearing here is that Flash is just faster and so Seiya won't be able to land a hit on him. Seiya has fight faster opponents before and he had a solution about their speed. He burned his cosmo to very high level and surapassed his opps speed and managed to hit him.It happened with Aiolia, why can't it happen with Flash? It has happened in canon so it can't be ignored.

Also, has Flash ever dodged so many attacks travelling at MFTL+ speeds? Seiya's punches are faster than his(Seiya's) movement speed ofc. What can Flash do against opponents with flight? With forcefields projection? How can he bypass it? Why does runing away count as a stalemate, rather than a defeat for Flash? If speed was the biggest factor in deciding the victor, all the sprinters in the world would be Boxing champions.

What's the point in having Flash running around in a fight if we want to have a conclusion? And most of the times that someone just runs around eventually he gets tired or gets knoced out by a punch.

If speed steal is all Flash has while Seiya is above him in every other category then how many times out of 10 do you think Flash win or loses?

 

[AguilaR101]

I don't think speed steal is going to help Flash to win, at best he gets a stalemate since restricting physical movement doesn't actually end the match against 7th sense users who can use their cosmo directly to attack. see:Ikki vs Shaka, gemini cloth projections.



This scan shows that even though Wally sealed away Inertia's speed and movement he didn't really stop his conciousness from working in real time, something that wouldn't really stop people who can use their energy, in this case cosmo, with a thought

 

[Panemorfos]

I don't think speed steal is going to help Flash to win, at best he gets a stalemate since restricting physical movement doesn't actually end the match against 7th sense users who can use their cosmo directly to attack.
see:Ikki vs Shaka, gemini cloth projections.



This scan shows that even though Wally sealed away Inertia's speed and movement he didn't really stop his conciousness from working in real time, something that wouldn't really stop people who can use their energy, in this case cosmo, with a thought

Thank you very much for this scan. You are the only one as of now, who has shown solid evidences of what speed steal can do and it's limitations.

Now, do you believe that Flash can use ss(speed steal) on Seiya, who has divine protection?These chars in the photo^^ how strong are they?? Same class as Flash, weaker, above him? Did Flash use ss to them in a battle situation or not?

 

[LordAizenSama]

Flash runs back through time and kills his entire family before his was born before the electric signals from pegasus seiya's brain travels a milimetre.

 

[Panemorfos]

Flash runs back through time and kills his entire family before his was born before the electric signals from pegasus seiya's brain travels a milimetre.

Did he ever do that? Feats please. Maybe Wally West should be called Wally Wank.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Here.

Wally not only runs through time, but also drains energy from COIE Anti-Monitor, who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seiya, so I think it's safe to say Wally can speed steal from beings stronger than himself.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Here.Wally not only runs through time, but also drains energy from COIE Anti-Monitor, who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seiya, so I think it's safe to say Wally can speed steal from beings stronger than himself.

Well said, Wally would have no problem draining all of Seiya's energy.

 

[Hiei312]

but speed steal only works on the physical body


in which case it also wouldn't accomplish much of anything.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

but speed steal only works on the physical body

in which case it also wouldn't accomplish much of anything.

Anything that moves, actually.

The Anti-Monitor is technically composed of energy and matter completely alien and unknown to Wally's universe, and speed steal still affected him, though in that case it was more like he was stealing energy in general, but whatever.

 

[Panemorfos]

Here.Wally not only runs through time, but also drains energy from COIE Anti-Monitor, who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seiya, so I think it's safe to say Wally can speed steal from beings stronger than himself.

The only thing i saw here was Wally saying that a mere man who can run fast can't beat a god. Well Divine Saint have god like powers so good to know that you are limited Wally.

From what i understood Flash went back in time and gave his speed to everyone fighting anti monitor, which included several supes and wonder woman, so that they canput him down. He didn't fight with anti monitor directly. Flash made no anti monitor stay like frozen like a statue.

Oh, and in the end they still lost?

So what i get is:a)mere speedsters don't have the output to put down someone way stronger than them. They need help to do it.

b)Flash didn't blitz anyone at full health. Anti monitor was attacked by many heave hitters before flash can blitz him.

c) He can boost other people's speed with his own. So he is more of a support.

So Flash doesn't blitz Seiya and can't perform so well against god-like powers and characters way more powerful than him.

So Seiya wins, right?

 

[Panemorfos]

Oh and Wally lost his focus during the battle didn't he?

I fail to see how a char who can only destroy a star at best can defeat a universe buster.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Did you not see the part where he blitzed Anti-Monitor? Or where he destroyed his physical form? It's also not really fair to say Seiya wins because Wally said a mere man can't beat a god, considering he was referring to the Anti-Monitor. Anti-Monitor is to Seiya what Seiya is to a normal human. I actually don't know who I'm siding with, but you asked for scans of Wally:

A) Speed stealing from an enemy far stronger than him

B) Traveling back in time with his speed

I provided both, and in the same comic.

 

[Hiei312]

we also have another problem here, actually


It seems that Cosmo may also be related to the movement of atoms, so it's clear that with a sufficiently powerful, Cosmo it's possible to alter the nature of any object, from destroying atoms to stopping them entirely.


Cosmo is also capable of affecting movement directly. we have no idea whether speed steal would even work on a being that posseses another basic governing force of the universe (Cosmo) affecting his speed.

and then we have this

The Speed Force only exists in the DC Multiverse; when Wally traveled to the Marvel Universe in JLA/Avengers, he was powerless in the other world,


with all that said i really don't think we should allow wally to speed steal a being whose speed is granted by Cosmos, even if we have the fight happen in DCverse for fairness.

 

[Panemorfos]

Did you not see the part where he blitzed Anti-Monitor? Or where he destroyed his physical form? It's also not really fair to say Seiya wins because Wally said a mere man can't beat a god, considering he was referring to the Anti-Monitor. Anti-Monitor is to Seiya what Seiya is to a normal human. I actually don't know who I'm siding with, but you asked for scans of Wally:
A) Speed stealing from an enemy far stronger than him

B) Traveling back in time with his speed

I provided both, and in the same comic.

And i thank you very much for it. You are a great debater and it is really fun debating with people who provide logical arguments. I was just pointing out my thoughts about what you just posted. If i came off as mean, i am sorry, because it wasn't my intension.

Also, yes i saw him blitzing but anti monitor was heavily injured by everyone else's attacks and in the end destroying his physical form wasn't enough. Same goes with Seiya, he is a trouble even without his physical form.

 

[Panemorfos]

we also have another problem here, actually

It seems that Cosmo may also be related to the movement of atoms, so it's clear that with a sufficiently powerful, Cosmo it's possible to alter the nature of any object, from destroying atoms to stopping them entirely.


Cosmo is also capable of affecting movement directly. we have no idea whether speed steal would even work on a being that posseses another basic governing force of the universe (Cosmo) affecting his speed.

and then we have this

The Speed Force only exists in the DC Multiverse; when Wally traveled to the Marvel Universe in JLA/Avengers, he was powerless in the other world,


with all that said i really don't think we should allow wally to speed steal a being whose speed is granted by Cosmos, even if we have the fight happen in DCverse for fairness.

That's how cosmo works. It has to do with atoms and their movement. Saints, when burning their Cosmo can perform miracles. Anything they do is a miracle. From Hyoga stopping the movement of atoms and Seiya managing to move faster than Aiolia's lightning plasma to Saga BFRing his opponnents and Ikki managing to ressurect after being atomized by Galaxian Explosion have to do with atom manipulation and destruction. Saints were also seen withstanding time stop with high enough cosmo, but that was only in Omega.

For that reasons, i still am not sure if speed steal actually works on Saints in general, not just Seiya. In any case, i think the battle should happen in a neutral place, where the can both use their abilities ( Cosmo, Speed Force ), but i am not sure that Speed Steal works on Seiya anyway because of Cosmo and divine protection.

 

[LordAizenSama]

flash wins, hes just 2 good.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I could pull out the feats for Wally, but Im too lazy so nah

 

[RouninOtaku]

I can't believe Seiya survived to be debated against Wally this long.

 

[Hyperception]

I say Wally becuase of spax.

 

[Hiei312]

wally has pretty much no arguments whatsoever


all the arguments in the topic are either supporting Seiya oir a stalemate. the people saying wally wins just ignore everything, post "flash wins" for no apparent reason and leave.


speed steal shouldn't work on Seiya for reasons already discussed above. killing Seiya does nothing. its literally impossible for Wally to win. this match is either a stalemate or Seiya's win through attrition eventually. (since Seiya basically has infinite stamina)

 

[RouninOtaku]

I feel it's best to leave it as a stalemate.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I feel it's best to leave it as a stalemate.

I'm with you on that. Speed def goes to Wally, but 8th sense, whatever that is. Also, Seiya wins arguements sound NLF-ish, which was brought up before. I'm not 100% sure about speed steal (leaning towards yes) like everyone else, and 8th sense prevents de-braining. I'll probably edit this post when I look more on seiya.

 

[RouninOtaku]

I feel it's best to leave it as a stalemate.

I'm with you on that. Speed def goes to Wally, but 8th sense, whatever that is. Also, Seiya wins arguements sound NLF-ish, which was brought up before. I'm not 100% sure about speed steal (leaning towards yes) like everyone else, and 8th sense prevents de-braining. I'll probably edit this post when I look more on seiya.

8th sense kinda being overhyped. It doesn't really make him immune, it's purpose is to be alive when you are in Hell. It hasn't been confirmed if it can be used on earth after death. When it was first activated by Virgo Shaka, he had to die first.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And quick question, doesn't killing once count as a death, or else someone like Frisk would never lose?

 

[Hiei312]

here's an extract on eight sense


Those few enlightened that in the moment of death burn their Cosmos to the extreme limit overcoming the power of Seventh Sense, wake up at the Eighth Sense, a Cosmos superior to Seventh Sense and burning it they exceed death, being able to reach the Underworld remaining alive and transcending the concepts of life and death.


it's not that killing him won't count..it's that beings who have mastered the eight sense are beyond the concepts of life and death, you can't really say Flash wins the fight by "killing" someone who is beyong the concept of death


here's the main reason i think Seiya would eventually win.


Very few mortals can approach the power of godhood in modern times, and most possess special circumstances or abilities (whether acquired, such as Virgo Shaka's training and the bronze saints' god cloths, bathed in Athena's ichor; or inherited, such as the presence of Kairos' genes in Pegasus Tenma's body). The miracles generated by the cosmoenergy of a god are capable of not only breaking laws of physics, but also completely ignore them. An example of this was shown when Poseido could stop the absolute zero-enhanced blast of the Aurora Executio of Cygnus Hyoga and bounce it back, when no particle should be able to retain energy within it.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

8th sense is actually scientifically impossible since he reached the underworld (spritual plane of existence) with a physical body.Yeah he pretty much does transcend life or death still even with all this I'd say stalemate at best.Seiya"s God power has never been explored yet so he lacks haxxes to put Wally down with not to mention we don't even know if he could catch Wally to use them.So...yeah stalemate for now anyways once we get Intel on 9th sense this would likely be his victory.

 

[RouninOtaku]

So who's gonna add this to inconclusive

 

[Aparajita]

The miracles generated by the cosmoenergy of a god are capable of not only breaking laws of physics, but also completely ignore them.

I think this is NFL imo

 

[Phantasys]

The miracles generated by the cosmoenergy of a god are capable of not only breaking laws of physics, but also completely ignore them.

I think this is NFL imo

Not really NFL when we see them actually doing it. Hades pretty much gave time and space the finger with his hyperdimension. Poseidon has his deflecting absolute zero.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The miracles generated by the cosmoenergy of a god are capable of not only breaking laws of physics, but also completely ignore them.

I think this is NFL imo

This isn't football lol jk.