very minor aizen addition

[Cyberblader90]

In the anniversary one shot we learn both aizen and yhwach's power was keeping hell locked. As such, I would like to add this to aizens's ap justification as "has energy comparable to yhwach as both of their power was keeping hell sealed."

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

In the anniversary one shot we learn both aizen and yhwach's power was keeping hell locked. As such, I would like to add this to aizens's ap justification as "has energy comparable to yhwach as both of their power was keeping hell sealed."

Seems to be more so talking about their base forms considering they’ve been holding the maws of Hell shut long before the TYBW, which checks out with their ratings for their base forms too.

I think adding it to the justification of their base forms is fine.

 

[AppleLord]

I completely disagree. The expression is more like their Reiatsus at the time in the story was the upper scale of the balance in favour of the Soul Society and keeping shut the maw of Hell whose Reiatsu was insignificant compared to their own.

At the time Yhwach was sealed and Aizen was put into Muken they disappeared from the equation and Hell became stronger when they sent the Reiatsu of the Shinigami, Espada and Quincy to Hell.

Hell existed before the Soul King existed in the Bleach verse. It was called the Pit. Aizen and Yhwach had flashbacks to when they were kids so that's not the anology depicted in the manga.

 

[SilentBob34]

Seems to be more so talking about their base forms considering they’ve been holding the maws of Hell shut long before the TYBW, which checks out with their ratings for their base forms too.

I think adding it to the justification of their base forms is fine.

What do you mean it checks out with their base form ratings too? The High 6A ones right? If that’s the case couldn’t like Kenpachi and Byakuya do the same?

 

[M11UTD]

Seems to be more so talking about their base forms considering they’ve been holding the maws of Hell shut long before the TYBW, which checks out with their ratings for their base forms too.

I think adding it to the justification of their base forms is fine.

If it's base forms why the likes of Yama, current Kenpachi aren't mentioned? They obviously above or around base Aizen's level.

 

[Damage3245]

I dunno about this one...

Aizen and Yhwach were the guys with the highest Spiritual Pressure around but just because both of them are above a certain threshold (i.e. the threshold of Reiatsu needed to seal Hell) doesn't mean they're both necessarily comparable or equal.

 

[SilentBob34]

I dunno about this one...

Aizen and Yhwach were the guys with the highest Spiritual Pressure around but just because both of them are above a certain threshold (i.e. the threshold of Reiatsu needed to seal Hell) doesn't mean they're both necessarily comparable or equal.

I just wanna know if it’s their base forms or their strongest forms

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Base for certain, Aizen was only transcendent for a few hours before he was out in Muken where his reiatsu is stuck close to his body, meaning he can’t possibly act as the lock.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

If it's base forms why the likes of Yama, current Kenpachi aren't mentioned? They obviously above or around base Aizen's level.

Based on the context, Aizen and Yhwach were purposefully holding back hell. They know something about it that we currently don't. Kenpachi, Byakuya etc probably aren't actively trying to hold hell back as far as we know

Also Aizen was transcendent in Fake/Real Karakura for a few hours at best, and then in the TYBW, was equipped with tech that made it so that his Reiatsu is kept in close proximity to him. Yhwach was only Soul King for a few hours at best too

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

It's also implied that Aizen and Yhwach disappearing and Unohana, Yamamoto and Ukitake's souls entering hell is what made hell unbalanced with soul society. Aizen and Yhwach disappeared 12 years ago but hell only started breaking loose when the ceremonies for the captains was completed, and their souls entered hell.

What seems to be implied here is that since beings of massive reiryoku disappeared from Soul Society and in a comparable time frame other beings of massive reiryoku entered Hell, the tenuous balance between Hell and Soul Society crumbled (as symbolised in the opening Koi part, both SS became significantly smaller and Hell became significantly larger). It can be compared to Soul Society and World of Living's balance, though that is based on the number of souls rather than reiryoku.

So the implications are as follows:
Other Captains+Yama+Unohana+Ukitake+ Yhwach+Aizen > Hell

Other captains < Hell+Yamamoto+Unohana+Ukitake, barely (as Ukitake was the straw that broke the camel's back since it was on his ceremony that hell's gates opened.

Neither does this imply that Aizen=Yhwach nor (unless I've confused myself) does this imply anything else. At most you could argue that Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake and by extension Kyoraku should be comparable... which they already are since their keys are 6-A, potentially higher with Yamamoto.

What could imply them being comparable is Yamamoto was threatened by them enough to be prepared to throw his life away against both of them (Aizen with a massive AoE to counter any possibility of Kyoka Suigetsu, Yhwach with his bankai). Of course we can counter this by saying that Yamamoto was mostly worried by Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu than Aizen himself (he refers to him as little boy multiple times) and he was genuinely matching Yhwach. While this may seem like a tangent, what I mean to say is that story wise base Yhwach is still more of a threat, and nothing much (including this one shot) indicates otherwise.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Anything regarding the new Hell arc should wait until we have more information confirming our speculation with said arc.

 

[Tyri456]

To be fair, that is wrong, Szyal imply that if Aizen and Yhwach were still here, there would be no problem regardless of the amount of souls in Hell, the reason of the hell gates appearance is in the very premise of his speech, the spiritual pressure that were holding it back, aka Aizen and Yhwach are not present anymore. So yeah, unohana, Yamamoto are not a factors at all, they are a factor only because Aizen and Yhwach are absent, this is clearly what is written In the premise.

Regardless this thread should be closed, we have still a lot of chapters for this arc for more context, and it doesn’t really change anything regardless.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

To be fair, that is wrong, Szyal imply that if Aizen and Yhwach were still here, there would be no problem regardless of the amount of souls in Hell, the reason of the hell gates appearance is in the very premise of his speech, the spiritual pressure that were holding it back, aka Aizen and Yhwach are not present anymore. So yeah, unohana, Yamamoto are not a factors at all, they are a factor only because Aizen and Yhwach are absent, this is clearly what is written In the premise.

The initial koi fish speech implies both to be the cause. Again, Yhwach and Aizen were barely in their top forms for more than an hour and them at their base are around the same ballpark as Yamamoto if no one else.

The koi fish speech implies:
1. The big fish (Soul Society's reiryoku, where Syazelapporo implies Aizen and Yhwach) died
2. The smaller fish (Hell, where Syazelapporo implies Ukitake, Unohana and Yamamoto) became much bigger than the first fish.

Symbolism aside, both the factors counted as, again, the hell collapse didn't happen when Yhwach died, it happened when Ukitake's souls entered hell (Yamamoto and Unohana's soul having entered hell a few days prior). Obviously Ukitake, Unohana and Yamamoto had something to do with it. One can argue that Yhwach and Aizen were active participants while the dead captains were passive participants, but to count them out entirely is verifiably flawed. That said.

Regardless this thread should be closed, we have still a lot of chapters for this arc for more context, and it doesn’t really change anything regardless.

Yes.

 

[Tyri456]

It is never stated it is base Aizen, also because putting Aizen and Yhwach in the same sentence should mean they are 2 variable of the same potential, despite the assumption can be correct, it doesn’t make that much sense with the wording (if you even check fan translation it is even different from this one and support what I’m saying) It could also be that the hours were Yhwach and Muken Aizen were present and alive is the key, it is a slow process regardless, it doesn’t happen in the short term. That is why I also said to wait for more context either way.

What is iffy, is that if the weight was similar, the premise of the speech doesn’t make sense and could have just listed the people, while it clearly establish That the cause is due to Yhwach and Aizen absence. Which is different.

 

[Tyri456]

Symbolism aside, both the factors counted as, again, the hell collapse didn't happen when Yhwach died, it happened when Ukitake's souls entered hell (Yamamoto and Unohana's soul having entered hell a few days prior). Obviously Ukitake, Unohana and Yamamoto had something to do with it. One can argue that Yhwach and Aizen were active participants while the dead captains were passive participants, but to count them out entirely is verifiably flawed. That said.

Btw I also agree with this, this is why I said to wait. And not use this as justificatio.
but as I said, the wording would have been a lot different if that is the only case, and would have been more simple Too. But what Sazyel imply low-key create conflicts with your theory.
There can be mechanism we don’t know With the appearance of the gate.

 

[AppleLord]

I completely disagree. The expression is more like their Reiatsus at the time in the story was the upper scale of the balance in favour of the Soul Society and keeping shut the maw of Hell whose Reiatsu was insignificant compared to their own.

At the time Yhwach was sealed and Aizen was put into Muken they disappeared from the equation and Hell became stronger when they sent the Reiatsu of the Shinigami, Espada and Quincy to Hell.

Hell existed before the Soul King existed in the Bleach verse. It was called the Pit. Aizen and Yhwach had flashbacks to when they were kids so that's not the anology depicted in the manga.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This is seemingly rejected and can probably be closed.