Upcoming Bleach changes

[Perilouss]

Since bleach is getting revised soon, I have some things I'd like to bring up:

1. Liltotto dodged the Auswahlen, which travelled the distance between the soul society and the royal realm at an arguably comparable speed to mimihagi (if not, we can just use longer timeframes), so characters should scale from that, however I'd like to hear some thoughts. And this wouldn't be an outlier because there is the mimihagi feat to back this up. There is also the fact that the auswahlen has been described as a ray of light multiple times but I won't go into this as it is a topic of controversy.

2. When the spriggan from fairy tail got AP upgrades (and even characters like lucy and wendy) due to a statement of them being on the same level, then does that mean also that a few of the elite sternritters get scaled to each other (since I remember something similar being stated), and also gerard being scaled to yhwach. There are also some other instances where this can be applied but I may add that in later since I can't really remember off the top of my head and I am busy at the moment.

3. I don't believe the note at the end of the page is necessary regarding Yhwach having access to sternritter powers, I believe this was made clear enough even if we didn't see him use it, the same can be said with him stealing yamamoto bankai yet its not at the bottom of the page, as well as some others too, but there is no note, when the same logic can be applied. (Please don't rant, I'm really not whining but I really don't see why the note at the end of the page was added, and why he isn't allowed to use these abilities in vs matchups unless stated otherwise).

4. I also believe As nodt should not scale in speed.

I'll add some scans later too if you want them, but I don't have the time right now.

EDIT: Ignore the greard point, the rest of 2. stands though.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Woah that's a list. Wouldn't it have been wiser to propose these to the person in charge of the changes? And Gerard scaling to Yhwach? Did I miss something?

 

[Blanked]

And can't you just wait until the revision is posted and than talk about it?

 

[HST_Master]

I didn't even know there was a revision....

 

[Perilouss]

@David

I remember arguing against someone else that it shouldn't be accepted (he gave a scan where there was a statement that gerard's reiatsu is on the level of yhwach or something), but since the fairy tail spriggan scaling got accepted through that logic then I don't see why not. I wanted more opinions on this, not just his.

@William

I was advised by a staff member to make a seperate thread regarding this. I do just that and there is still a problem.... no pleasing people these days. I brought it up because revisions are upcoming, so we can discuss this and come to a conclusion so that when revisions are made this can be added.

But if this is really such a bother then whatever close this, if not I'd honestly like to hear some opinions.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Oh the Byakuya statement I could've sworn he was talking about Ichigo given the context of the situation which would make more sense to me

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I've heard that Gerard issue was mistranslated.

 

[Davidsteel1]

@BFF I always thought that was the case, so Byakuya wasn't referring to Gerard?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I think so. Someone brought up the official translation at some point but I can't really remember.

 

[Perilouss]

Okay that was literally like a very small fraction of my post, what of the rest, mainly the first point?

 

[Davidsteel1]

Apologies if we're focusing on a small part of your thread but it's very significant, but about the first point I have no real clue I'm no good with calcs and whatnot so anything I say will be very misinformed. But u mentioned Sternritter scaling to one another which Sternritters are u referring to specifically?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

You mean like Sternritter focusing on hax scaling to those focusing on AP?

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Seems legit. There are also things I would like to bring up.

 

[Perilouss]

You mean like Sternritter focusing on hax scaling to those focusing on AP?

It seemed fine when we did it with the spriggan in fairy tail, no?

@David

I'm mainly concerned about the elite sternritter (Gerard, Lille Barro, Askin and Pernidas). They should all be superior to gremmy, who has a country (or atleast small country depending on revisions) level feat, as they are yhwach's elite.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Hmm I see what ur saying here but my main issue with this would be the problems it could cause in scaling down the line, for instance if we scale Gerard (in base) to Gremmy then Byakuya and Renji shouldn't have been able to even hurt him in the first place. And Askin was panicking himself when he saw Gremmy's meteor iirc, but that aside I don't think that using the Spriggan as a point of reference is a good idea really in FT the abilities are usually very straightforward and simple and even haxed characters more often than not need a proportional amount of dc to be considered a threat e.g. Bloodman and Lacarde but bleach on the other hand are either ridiculously haxed or ridiculously destructive with cases like Gerrard where the had buffs up the AP it's rare to find characters with both. Ok sorry for the wall of text but I just felt like comparing the Spriggan to the Sternritter was a bad idea in my head. Btw y shouldn't As nodt not scale in speed?

 

[Perilouss]

@David

Actually, wouldn't that mean that byakuya and renji scales to gerard then, because thats exactly hat happened in fairy tail, we started scaling lucy and wendy to these spriggan characters who they "shouldn't have harmed". We need to keep things consistent across series please.

Bradman, Rakheid etc are more hax oriented yet they got scaled. They haven't showed any DC feats anywhere near the island level as far as I'm aware. Askin can act goofy at times, like when he trolled grimmjow, and he was probably just surprised as he got promoted from a lower rank and was still unsure of how powerful he actually was.

Because when I reread the As Nodt fight, he didn't really seem like he was tagging them due to speed, he was mostly using fear to slow down his opponents.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Didn't Askin call Gremmy a monster? I'm also not comfortable with scaling them this way. Also, wasn't it Base Gerard who was injured by Byakuya?

 

[Davidsteel1]

But wouldn't that mean the super star Ô¡É´©Å (I'm sorry his name escapes me at the moment) would then scale to Renji, considering it took his Bankai to kill him? And if the whole spriggan scaling bothers u why not make a CRT about it? It'll either provide a reason for the scaling or it'll cause a reevaluation for who scales to whom dc wise in FT, though Bradman did match Gajeel in raw dc once he unlocked his 3rd seal and Lacarde did own Kagura using his bare hands when hax stopped working. But that aside Askin never showed to be able to hurt most of his opponents in straight up combat more often than not relying on his broken as hell "death dealing" so I can't say I agree with u. The As nodt thing on the other hand seems alright to me.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

His name is Mask.

 

[Davidsteel1]

@BFF thank u honestly don't know how I forgot such a simple name

 

[Perilouss]

@Burning

As I have already explained, askin just got promoted to elite sternritter after the auswahlen, and was still clearly unsure of what his own actual power was. Sure he called gremmy a monster, but why is that a problem? The elite sternritter are yhwach's chosen guards, there is no way they would be weaker than other sternritter. Byakuya's bankai was also able to damage non-base gerard.

Honestly, I'm not bothered on whether their base forms or other forms should scale, but they should all at the very least scale to an inferior sternritter.

@David

See above reasoning. Also I'm pretty sure bankai renji oneshotted. But what's the problem with mask scaling, when we scale hax characters like rakheid and bradman and then scale characters like lucy and wendy to island level. The spriggan scaling doesn't bother me, it is the incosistency of logic that bothers me. If we are applying one logic to a series, why are we then going to deny that logic with another very similar series. Gajeel was small city level and don't even get me started with kagura. Those aren't really justifyable dc feats to back up the claim that they have sufficient AP. Askin was able to fight hand to hand with yoruichi, which is more impressive than than rakheid matching kagura.

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Askin is a very strange case. He took noticeable damage from Yushiro who I doubt is even up to City level. Also, who's the strongest non-elite Sternritter? Don't they cap out at City level?

 

[Davidsteel1]

True Bankai Renji did one shot, but would that mean bazz b should scale too since he could match Renji? Sorry at a point u say "the Spriggan scaling bothers me, it is the inconsistency of logic that bothers me" I'm not sure but I get the impression that a word was missed out? Maybe it's just my imagination. But all that aside I guess I can see the potential issue with the FT scaling, though I don't think I completely agree with ur thought on applying the same kind of logic uniformly; even similar series more often than not have unique aspects that make logic that work for other series to be inapplicable. But I do see the logic behind ur points- honestly id say make a thread about this or take it to a staff member if u really feel like it should be applied. Oh Askin only managed to match Yoruichi after she had been poisoned and given a cure by Urahara he even mentions that she isn't in top condition.

 

[Perilouss]

@Burning

Yeah and Rakheid took noticeable damage from town level kagura and sting, didn't seem to be a problem then....

@David

Whats wrong with that? Bazz B isn't fodder or anything. Oh and I meant to say that the spriggan scaling doesn't bother me, apologies. Also Askin had already fought ichigo and grimmjow beforehand, and it was pre vollstandig askin so it's still impressive.

 

[Perilouss]

Hmm I think this thread is glitched...

 

[Davidsteel1]

No never said it was a problem I was just asking- though I guess it should have been obvious. If by fought u mean run away and lure them into a trap while simultaneously trolling them? Then yes he fought them, honestly Askin is just flipping awesome u got to love a villain whose so genre savvy

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Actually Aushwalen is nuch slower than Mimihagi. Go back and read the chapter. I'll post scans on it later, im on my phone.

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask Gwynbleiddd for input regarding this, but he is very busy, so it is likely an inappropriate time.

 

[Perilouss]

@Barry, here is the scan of liltotto dodging the auswahlen.

I did say comparable at the very least, I have read back on it and it does indeed take longer if you are using the number of panels inbetween the first time we see yhwach use it and the point where it is noticed by robert accutrone, but in Irene's meteor calc, there were also other things going on during the time the meteor was in flight, such as the members commenting on seeing a "shooting star", so if we are counting 4 panels there, then technically it took 2 panels. If we also count all the scans in the revised mimihagi calc from Lina, it takes 14 panels, but we used 4 because those were the only scans relevant. Same thing applies here too.

I can calc the speed of liltotto later on today or maybe at some point next week using 20mins as a low end, 10 mins mid end and 5 mins as a high end for the speed of the auwahlen, all of which are much much slower than the 1 minute low end used for mimihagi, and make a blog on it, and ask some calc members to evaluate. I'll also use 1 minute if we go by the logic I mentioned earlier and see what others agree on. Will that be fine by you?


Lilltotto dodging the auswahle

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Perilouss I agree that the Schutzstaffel should scale to Gremmy.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

No, Ashuwalen isn't compatable in the least. Its nice to post the single page in which it's dodged but Yhwach released it at the Begining of 6603,kubo drew a page designating a Small Time Skip ("Meanwhile, Elsewhere") and it didn't reach to them for several pages of Actions and Dialogue.

They aren't even portrayed as similar in traveling Speed.

Pages that designate the "Meanwhile, Elsewhere":





So as you can see, Ashuwalen is no comparable to Mimihagi. I'll break it down further with order of events:

• Yhwach Activates Ashuwalen

• Nimaiya conteplates what its for and his plan of action

• Yhwach Fires Ashuwalen

"Meanwhile, Elsewhere" Page

• Giselle Eating Bambi and goes nuts on her

• Lillonette finds Giselle and updates her on what happened

• Accutrone Finds Lillonette and Giselle and rants

• Accutrone Loses his shit

• Ashuwalen hits him first

• Lillonette dodges the main beam that branches off to hit her.

I.E, not compatable to Mimihagi.

 

[Perilouss]

Tell me where it said time skip, or meanwhile/elsewhere, because I didn't see that in any of those scans. And what of my argument? I have already addressed that similar things happened in the fairy tail and the mimihagi calc, where only the panels which were actually relevant were counted.

 

[Perilouss]

And even so, I offered lowball timeframes which definitely aren't comparable as you say, so I dont see what the problem is.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

^Not even a little comparable. That's my problem, and the "Meanwhile, Elsewhere page" is the transition page. It's not that hard to see.

 

[Perilouss]

Hmm I see, I guess I'll reword it if you don't agree with it. That also is just a title page, I don't know how it implied meanwhile/elsewhere, thats an assumption. Still, we only took the panels which were relevant in the mimihagi calc and irene meteor calc, why are we going to change it here? Because using that way, it is comparable.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Hmm I see, I guess I'll reword it if you don't agree with it. That also is just a title page, I don't know how it implied meanwhile/elsewhere, thats an assumption. Still, we only took the panels which were relevant in the mimihagi calc and irene meteor calc, why are we going to change it here? Because using that way, it is comparable.

The "meanwhile, Elsewhere" page is last page i posted. And that's no assumption, that's writing. And no, not only the dodging is relavant. If you didn't know how fast Aushwalen is, the dodging is baseless.

 

[Perilouss]

The last page you posted didn't even have any indicator of time whatsoever, not even a single word or hint, those events could have easily happened before so yes that is an assumption. And if what you say is true, explain why we didn't count the "meanwhile" panels/pages in the mimihagi calc and irene meteor calc.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

The last page you posted didn't even have any indicator of time whatsoever, not even a single word or hint, those events could have easily happened before so yes that is an assumption. And if what you say is true, explain why we didn't count the "meanwhile" panels/pages in the mimihagi calc and irene meteor calc.

The Mimihagi didn't have a "Meanwhile, Elsewhere" part to his feat which makes it remarkable. And "Flash Backs" like you describe always take place in Black Pages. That's in Bleach/Naruto/One Piece, etc...
I'm not about to debate writing tactics with you. You can go ask anyone who is privy on both matters. It's straight forward and not an assumption.

 

[M11UTD]

since when people talking is relevant ? Mimihagi's feat happened in 1 page without anyone saying anything but still got 5 minutes timeframe

 

[M11UTD]

how long do you think Ashuwalen took to reach SS and do you think Nimaya was standing for more than 5 minutes without doing anything ? keep in mind Ashuwalen traveled to SS then back to SKP