Twice (MHA) vs Naruto (Part 1)

[TheRustyOne]

Now that MHA is 8-B, I feel like this match up is appropriate.

Naruto is in his first Key, and KN0 is restricted.

Twice: 13.70 Tons of TNT

Naruto: 18.58 Tons of TNT

Speed is Equalized.

Starting Distance: 20 meters

Who wins?

Double: VersusJunkie54, TauanVictor, V999, SuperStar, Mazdoesstuff, Acer__, CiscoTheSoto, Shadowbokunohero, Bruhtelho, (9)

Shadow Clone Jutsu: Maitreya, YungManzi, (2)

 

[VersusJunkie54]

This....is a hard one. Twice can make vastly more clones, but Naruto has arguably superior stamina.

Honestly, the outcome of this battle really depends on who you think can spam clones longer than the other.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Once Twice's makes his two clones, I personally don't think his stamina take anymore hits.

At the least Twice was confident that he could hold off the Metal Liberation Army for over 1 hour and 5 minutes. So he can last a good long while.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Once Twice's makes his two clones, I personally don't think his stamina take anymore hits.

At the least Twice was confident that he could hold off the Metal Liberation Army for over 1 hour and 5 minutes. So he can last a good long while.

Oof. Yeah Naruto is definitely not matching that.

Naruto will gradually weaken, and run out of Chakra after a battle of attrition. So I'm voting for Twice for right now.

 

[TauanVictor]

Twice also seems to excel in intelligence overall, Naruto at that stage was still quite inexperienced and immature.

Twice FRA.

 

[V999]

Twice FRA

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah no imma vote for Naruto here.

Twice can only make two clones himself and then his clone can make two clones and so on and so forth, however Naruto can make clones instantly.

Essentially by the time twice will have made 50 clones, Naruto could’ve already made 500 clones on the battlefield. Twice can make more than Naruto sure but Naruto will start out with more clones due to his cloning process being faster and easier.

Also Twice’s clones are not durable and get progressively weaker as they clone meaning Naruto’s clones can always one shot them easy and if you can destroy them fast enough you essentially nullify Twice’s ability.

Couple that with the higher lifting strength and AP advantage Naruto already starts out with plus his ninja tools and his wider variety of capabilities I think imma vote for Naruto.

 

[SuperStar]

Twice FRA

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

Twice's clones don't get less durable, they have less endurance and the amount of damage it takes to make them disappear gets lower. Their physical durability doesn't actually decrease. Twice is under the effects of a Quirk that forces him to tell the truth as well, so there is no doubt this is correct.

Even after Twice made thousands of clones, they could still throw attacks and hurt other people. If they lost durability Twice's clones would die via recoil damage.

Yes Naruto can instantly make more clones than Twice, but don't look down on Twice's speed. In just three panels of time, we see Twice already has a massive army. In less than a single minute he could do this much. Twice's clones can also make clones as they're melting away, so defeating them doesn't stop his doubling.

Counting both votes.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Twice FRA, his duplication potential is more impressive

 

[Maitreya12]

Snip

No I think the panels prove my point actually. Twice says his second clone gets weaker. Twice’s cloning is only so fast because his clones start making clones alongside him. That means the clone’s clone is also weaker than the clone that was already weaker than the original Twice. Ergo they’re taking less recoil from their own attacks because their own attacks are weaker.

Twice’s clone speed is fast but he can only make two clones at a time. Same said for his other clones. They make two at a time. Naruto makes his clones instantaneously and alongside that all his ninja tools as well. If Twice’s clones are gonna be all jumbled together like that then Naruto and his clones can move back and start throwing Kunai with exploding tags on them, doing massive damage to Twice and his clone army.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No I think the panels prove my point actually. Twice says his second clone gets weaker. Twice’s cloning is only so fast because his clones start making clones alongside him.

Weaker via Endurance.

You read the panel? "Only difference from the original is Endurance." While under the effects of a Quirk that forces him to speak the truth.

Yes something with less endurance is weaker, don't automatically assuming weaker must mean they punch weaker or something. I literally told you that Twice could harm people with comparable durability to him despite already having thousands of clones out. They do not get physically weaker at all.

 

[Maitreya12]

Weaker via Endurance.

You read the panel? "Only difference from the original is Endurance." While under the effects of a Quirk that forces him to speak the truth.

Yes something with less endurance is weaker, don't automatically assuming weaker must mean they punch weaker or something. I literally told you that Twice could harm people with comparable durability to him despite already having thousands of clones out. They do not get physically weaker at all.

That’s…not what he says.

He specifically says that out of the two clones he makes, the second one is weaker.

He doesn’t say “weaker via endurance” that doesn’t make sense. He just makes it known that the clone he makes after taking a certain amount of damage crumbles apart. He even goes so far as to make the distinction between which of his clones gets weaker.

Twice having thousands of clones out doesn’t make himself any weaker. The clones are the ones that get weaker. So him harming someone doesn’t mean anything.

 

[TheRustyOne]

He specifically says that out of the two clones he makes, the second one is weaker.

I'm not arguing with you on this as it's irrelevant.

Having less endurance means something is weaker. The burden of proof is on you and you haven't proved that he means weaker physical strength. There is nothing that proves his clones are physically weaker beyond head canon. Twice himself stated, the only difference is endurance. You're trying to argue otherwise despite that. And we've seen that Twice's clones not become physically weaker or even less durable. Just that the amount of damage it takes for them to vanish lowers.

Which means even small injures are melting them, when originally it took a broken arm.

Apologies for the rude tone against you. Due to reasonings that have nothing to do with you, I'm a little agitated. I shall stay out of the debate for the time being.

 

[Maitreya12]

I'm not arguing with you on this as it's irrelevant.

Having less endurance means something is weaker. The burden of proof is on you and you haven't proved that he means weaker physical strength. There is nothing that proves his clones are physically weaker beyond head canon. Twice himself stated, the only difference is endurance. You're trying to argue otherwise despite that. And we've seen that Twice's clones not become physically weaker or even less durable. Just that the amount of damage it takes for them to vanish lowers.

Which means even small injures are melting them, when originally it took a broken arm.

Apologies for the rude tone against you. Due to reasonings that have nothing to do with you, I'm a little agitated. I shall stay out of the debate for the time being.

I mean I guess I’ll have to make a CRT about this if need be if Twice’s clones

Twice makes a clear distinction between the first clone he makes and the second. He specifically says out of the second clone he makes, it’s weaker. Now this could either mean weaker as in (physically weaker) or weaker as in you interpret it where they have less endurance than the original (i.e. it takes less damage to inflict on them to make them crumble apart) but either way my point remains the same that his second clone is weaker.

There is no argument against it. He says it himself. His second clone is weaker than his first. Even if you don’t want to take it as physically weaker, then “having less endurance” just means they’re easier to break apart compared to the first clone, so they become less durable. Which was my original point. And this issue would persist for all the clones because for every second clone Twice’s clones make, it’s gonna be weaker than the first one made.

My point basically remains the same in the more clones Twice make the easier it is for Naruto to take them out. If before it took a broken arm for them to disassemble then the more Twice clones it’ll just mean each Naruto clone can take him out with a single punch due to how easy they’ll be able to crumble apart.

Also dw I didn’t really get the impression you were being rude either. It was just regularly talking ya know.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Twice fra

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Gonna vote Twice here. The speed at which he can create his clones is greater than what Naruto can do. At this point in the series, Naruto is still very inexperienced and can't really do much without using Kurama's chakra. He'd need that chakra to create an army as large as Twice. He's also not very skilled at taijutsu either, while Twice has years of experience and can even create clones as they're disintegrating.

This match was a freaking genius idea. I can only imagine the army of clones arguing with one another as they try to kill each other. I'd pay money to see it happen.

 

[V999]

Grace

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

hmmm lets see

Twice can likely make more clones , Naruto can only make so many clones when his mentally amped like he was against Mizuki, it's not in character for him to make so many clones off the bat, his clones are way less durable and this version of naruto isnt as cunning or creative with his clones. that being said naruto is a tad bit more versatile and can amp his speed with the body flicker movement. he also has superior stamina

i think it will be pretty close but im leaning to Twice for having more wincons.

 

[YungManzi]

So... Twice having better clones aside... Naruto is by far the better fighter both tactically and skill-wise.

He's also not very skilled at taijutsu either, while Twice has years of experience and can even create clones as they're disintegrating.

^This is wrong, very wrong. Naruto isn't skilled in taijutsu only when you compare him to absolute taijutsu geniuses. At this time, against anyone not named Sasuke, Neji, or Lee; Naruto was the strongest taijutsu fighter in his class of genin (Discounting Kabuto of course). Even Kiba (Another genin who was top tier in taijutsu) needed food pills, Akamaru, and smoke bombs ect. just to fight a naruto who wasn't using clones; then he proceeded to get one-shot by Naruto's clones (And only like... five of them)

Also, Naruto could legit turn his clones into twice look alikes and flank twice using what he thinks are his own offshoots. And twice isn't a ninja used to or expecting a strategy like that.

So I say naruto wins for those reasons being: Superior skill, superior tactics, and transformation jutsu.

 

[SuperStar]

Grace already ended on Friday, someone should add this

 

[TheRustyOne]

Forgot about this thread.

Vote counted.

While grace has been reached, I'm not in the mood to deal with the profiles due to reasons.

 

[YungManzi]

My argument I just made was never addressed in the original vote posts, but yeah this happens sometimes.

 

[Maitreya12]

My argument I just made was never addressed in the original vote posts, but yeah this happens sometimes.

Neither was mine

What good is being able to make more clones if you never get the chance to make them.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

I personally believe Twice's raw duplication just overwhelms Naruto, who isn't going to go 1000 clones in the start of the fight. By the time he realizes he should, Twice should have enough clones to hold him off and continue doubling until he has over an army over 20000. Which isn't going to take him long at all.

Twice has sheer numbers on his side, so I think the votes for him are still valid at least. Since Twice will double instantly and Naruto isn't bloodlusted or something to think about instantly killing him. And he might end up losing sight of him. Twice can have thousands of clones in less than a single minute after all.

Apologies for making it seem like I'm going against you, I'm just explaining what I think.

Also I think maybe this could be a little iffy, because Twice can double people besides himself. He's shown to quickly double the League of Villains as well. He's been shown to make doubles of Shigaraki and Dabi, I doubt he'll use Rappa since that was only a temporary team up and he doesn't care about him.

Actually, yeah Twice should be able to double the others right? That's why the profile mentions who he can double besides himself.

 

[YungManzi]

I personally believe Twice's raw duplication just overwhelms Naruto, who isn't going to go 1000 clones in the start of the fight. By the time he realizes he should, Twice should have enough clones to hold him off and continue doubling until he has over an army over 20000. Which isn't going to take him long at all.

Twice has sheer numbers on his side, so I think the votes for him are still valid at least. Since Twice will double instantly and Naruto isn't bloodlusted or something to think about instantly killing him. And he might end up losing sight of him. Twice can have thousands of clones in less than a single minute after all.

Twice can have sheer numbers all he wants, but what's he gonna do when Naruto's Clones just turn into twice look alikes? As far as we know, twice has no definitive ability to tell them apart in such a scenario; and this is something Naruto actually does as a strategy, as he did it against kiba and even still tricked Kiba who actually had a way to tell Naruto and Akamaru apart with his enhanced smell sense.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Twice can have sheer numbers all he wants, but what's he gonna do when Naruto's Clones just turn into twice look alikes? As far as we know, twice has no definitive ability to tell them apart in such a scenario; and this is something Naruto actually does as a strategy, as he did it against kiba and even still tricked Kiba who actually had a way to tell Naruto and Akamaru apart with his enhanced smell sense.

How would that help Naruto? He isn't going to do that at the start, he has no reason to.

Twice isn't going to stop doubling and if a "clone" starts getting near him for some reason he'll be suspicious. Especially if a single Twice clone see him transforms and yells out that he saw that. Also I don't think Naruto will be able to find the real Twice after awhile, there's no way he won't get lost trying to find him.

Which would lead to a bunch of Twice's looking around in confusing. Which could be inconclusive. I don't think Naruto can tell Twice's clones apart.

Twice isn't going to stay behind in one place, he isn't injured like during the Metal Liberation Arc. He'll be moving. Also if Naruto starts turning his clones into him, Twice can double other members of the League of Villains, a Dabi clone would just burn everything in front of him.

Seriously, does anyone know if Twice can double the League in verse matches? Considering it's his ability, he should be able to.

 

[YungManzi]

How would that help Naruto? He isn't going to do that at the start, he has no reason to.

You can say he won't start with it which... doesn't matter, since he's starting with clones regardless and once he finds out twice can use more clones he will definitely go for a strategy like he did against kiba and the clone guys in the forest of death.

So to lay out the scenario:
Hundreds to thousands of fake twice clones will be fighting thousands to tens of thousands of real twice clones with twice nor his clones having a definite way to tell between which clones are real and fake.

That sounds like a nightmare to someone with endurance problems to begin with when it comes to clones.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Twice isn't going to stay behind in one place, he isn't injured like during the Metal Liberation Arc. He'll be moving. Also if Naruto starts turning his clones into him, Twice can double other members of the League of Villains, a Dabi clone would just burn everything in front of him.

Seriously, does anyone know if Twice can double the League in verse matches? Considering it's his ability, he should be able to.

Twice FRA, also Twice should very well be able to create clones of the League just as he did when he got in front of Re-Destro (2:07) since it comes from his quirk it should be allowed within VS Threads.

 

[TheRustyOne]

You can say he won't start with it which... doesn't matter, since he's starting with clones regardless and once he finds out twice can use more clones whe will definitely go for a strategy like he did against kiba and the clone guys in the forest of death.

So to lay out the scenario:
Hundreds to thousands of fake twice clones will be fighting thousands to tens of thousands of real twice clones with twice nor his clones having a definite way to tell between which clones are real and fake.

That sounds like a nightmare to someone with endurance problems to begin with when it comes to clones.

Twice doesn't have Endurance problems with his clones. I personally don't think there is a limit to how many clones Twice can make, as he won't get tired. He stops making clones after his first go and only his clones are doubling now, he isn't doing anything but running around and fighting a little.

He was confident to fight for over an hour and five minutes just fine.

Naruto in this case will tire out before Twice, unless you have scans of him fighting for that long without being tired? That's assuming Twice doesn't make one clone of Dabi who'll burn everyone in a 100 meter radius because he doesn't care. Though I can see Twice holding off since Dabi could burn him as well.

A Shiggy would be better.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

How would that help Naruto? He isn't going to do that at the start, he has no reason to.

Twice isn't going to stop doubling and if a "clone" starts getting near him for some reason he'll be suspicious. Especially if a single Twice clone see him transforms and yells out that he saw that. Also I don't think Naruto will be able to find the real Twice after awhile, there's no way he won't get lost trying to find him.

Which would lead to a bunch of Twice's looking around in confusing. Which could be inconclusive. I don't think Naruto can tell Twice's clones apart.

Twice isn't going to stay behind in one place, he isn't injured like during the Metal Liberation Arc. He'll be moving. Also if Naruto starts turning his clones into him, Twice can double other members of the League of Villains, a Dabi clone would just burn everything in front of him.

Seriously, does anyone know if Twice can double the League in verse matches? Considering it's his ability, he should be able to.

Yes, he should be able to. His actual tier should probably be “8-B, up to 8-A with Double” due to making Dabi clones, though I don’t think they should be allowed in this fight.

All other clones are free (he can make clones of Spinner as well) which includes Awakened Shigaraki as shown when he’s fighting Hawks and the Shigaraki he makes doesn’t have a hand mask.

So he makes a Shigaraki, who touches the ground and just kills everyone.

 

[YungManzi]

Twice doesn't have Endurance problems with his clones.

Twice's profile: "The clones he creates have less endurance than the originals, and will usually dissolve after taking enough damage."

He was confident to fight for over an hour and five minutes just fine.

Naruto in this case will tire out before Twice, unless you have scans of him fighting for that long without being tired? That's assuming Twice doesn't make one clone of Dabi who'll burn everyone in a 100 meter radius because he doesn't care. Though I can see Twice holding off since Dabi could burn him as well.

Remember how the forest of death was 5 days of pretty much just running and fighting? and then preliminaries happened right after that?

I think if you allow twice to make clones of the others that turns this fight into something different.

It's like switching to Naruto's other 8-B key and giving him toad summons.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yes, he should be able to. His actual tier should probably be “8-B, up to 8-A with Double” due to making Dabi clones. So I don’t think they should be allowed in this fight.

All other clones are free (he can make clones of Spinner as well) which includes Awakened Shigaraki as shown when he’s fighting Hawks and the Shigaraki he makes doesn’t have a hand mask.

So he makes a Shigaraki, who touches the ground and just kills everyone.

Dabi is 7-A now. I could restrict the Dabi clone though. If you all think that is necessary. I doubt Twice will start with that considering Dabi's nature. And if Naruto does transform into him, I imagine he'll be more hesitant with bringing Dabi who'd just blast everyone.

Regardless, it'd be best to just assuming Dabi isn't usable in this fight. We were already going off that assumption at least.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Twice's profile: "The clones he creates have less endurance than the originals, and will usually dissolve after taking enough damage."

I thought you meant the real Twice was going to have endurance problems.

I wasn't talking about his clones. Also Endurance just means how much damage it takes to destroy them, not they're literal stamina.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Remember how the forest of death was 5 days of pretty much just running and fighting? and then preliminaries happened right after that?

Why are you assuming I'm knowledgeable about Naruto? I know bare basics at best.

Also was Naruto constantly fighting during that time? Not a single break whatsoever?

Because even real life humans can fight for over a month as long as they have small amounts of breaks in between.

We're talking about how long a person can fight in one single battle.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Twice's profile: "The clones he creates have less endurance than the originals, and will usually dissolve after taking enough damage."

I would not call that an endurance problem considering the sheer numbers and how quick they multiply. That matters for the latest clones kinda, but they can just make clones as they die and it doesn’t do anything. So defeating a clone doesn’t mean anything since the others will just instantly replenish the clone they lost and then that clone will make more clones too and before Naruto can blink, the clones he just got rid of are now not only replaced by also cloning and attacking the clone that took out the other clone. Or each other.

Remember how the forest of death was 5 days of pretty much just running and fighting? and then preliminaries happened right after that?

I think if you allow twice to make clones of the others that turns this fight into something different.

It's like switching to Naruto's other 8-B key and giving him toad summons.

Naruto and his squad had breaks, camped, stopped running, even slept during that preliminary. He absolutely does not have a 5 day long stamina feat where he can fight and spam shadow clones and use taijutsu for 5 days straight.

Also that’s a base function of Twice’s Quirk, not a summon. He makes clones of people, it’s just making clones of himself is more powerful for a numbers advantage. It’s not the same

 

[YungManzi]

Why are you assuming I'm knowledgeable about Naruto? I know bare basics at best.

Also was Naruto constantly fighting during that time? Not a single break whatsoever?

Naruto and his squad had breaks, camped, stopped running, even slept during that preliminary. He absolutely does not have a 5 day long stamina feat where he can fight and spam shadow clones and use taijutsu for 5 days straight.

I'm talking about chakra stamina. That's not gonna recover after a few little breaks. It's part of the reason why sasuke struggled a bit in his fight in the prelims, and naruto couldn't spam clones.

Why else do you think Kabuto was so impressed by naruto being able to spam clones and transformations on the fifth day? He was surprised he could even move after all that, let alone fight.

When are you saying naruto slept? before his fight with Kiba?

Edit: Forest of death is it's own section, that's not prelims btw.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I'm talking about chakra stamina. That's not gonna recover after a few little breaks. It's part of the reason why sasuke struggled a bit in his fight in the prelims, and naruto couldn't spam clones.

Why else do you think Kabuto was so impressed by naruto being able to spam clones and transformations on the fifth day? He was surprised he could even move after all that, let alone fight.

When are you saying naruto slept? before his fight with Kiba?

Edit: Forest of death is it's own section, that's not prelims btw.

Ok but how does any of that help him when a Shigaraki clone kills everyone by decaying several kilometers worth of area.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Why else do you think Kabuto was so impressed by naruto being able to spam clones and transformations on the fifth day? He was surprised he could even move after all that, let alone fight.

Technically, Naruto was able to "rest" on the 3rd night of the exam till the morning of the 4th day (Chapters 50 to 57), and even clean himself up and eat lunch (Chapter 60).

But Naruto did fight again, all night during the 4th night of the exam until the morning of the 5th day, all the while spamming clones against an opponent that was spamming illusionary clones, while also doing transformations of his allies so that they could set an ambush (Chapters 61 to 63).

 

[TauanVictor]

Why hasn't this been added yet?