Trevor Belmont vs Gunvolt

[Purmeenant]

Trevor Belmont

Trevor C. Belmont (known as Ralph C. Belmondo in Japan) is the main protagonist of Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse and the Pachislot Akumajō Dracula series. Trevor is a descendant of Leon Belmont and was feared by the people because of his supernatural powers, therefore, the Belmont Clan lived...

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Vs

Gunvolt

Captured by Sumeragi and experimented on as a test subject for Project Gunvolt, Gunvolt spent his early life being tortured to accept the Azure Striker Septima. Despite being the perfect match for the power, he was rescued from the emperor company's clutches by Asimov and the publicly called...

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Speed Equalized
Fight takes place in Dracula's Castle in Dracula's throne room
Gunvolt with full control over Astral Order
No Darkness Whip

Inconclusive: @Smashtwig, @Theglassman12, @Xmark12, @SonicBayo1999, @Migue79, @GlaceonGamez471, @XSOULOFCINDERX

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Not really seeing much of anything Gunvolt can do here. To be honest I don't even know if Prevasion is gonna help him in this situation considering it turns him into Electrons where Macro-Quantum hax is required to reach them (and even then it's layered), but general magic in Castlevania can reach pure Quantum Levels. Plus everything Gunvolt has to throw at him either Soma Resists or gets hard countered by Passive Plot Hax.

 

[Smashtwig]

I’ve only played Aria till the false ending and I can tell you that Soma cooks tf outta GV (well, as a first impression. This is all I know about castlevania, and ig that Vampire Killer is just the master sword)


Not sure if Quantum level interacts well with layered Prevasion hax tbh, but I’m sure Soma has something for this to bypass it anyways (nvm bro has 720 layers somehow)

Will be back when I read more into stuff but first impression is either GV gets stomp or it can be a listable loss (don’t see Probability Manip, History Erase, or a Time Travel resist though…?). Would like to note that GV’s Regen is History based which I don’t think Soma has a negation too (only Narrative and Conceptual based)- and from what I can tell the Plot Hax doesn’t seem to be used in a way I would call “omnipotent”- more of one of those things that magic in the verse has as a property

Also, sorry I wasn’t able to get the new CRT applied to everyone in the GV Verse yet, I’ve been and still am pretty busy

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

I’ve only played Aria till the false ending and I can tell you that Soma cooks tf outta GV (well, as a first impression. This is all I know about castlevania, and ig that Vampire Killer is just the master sword)


Not sure if Quantum level interacts well with layered Prevasion hax tbh, but I’m sure Soma has something for this to bypass it anyways (nvm bro has 720 layers somehow)

Will be back when I read more into stuff but first impression is either GV gets stomp or it can be a listable loss (don’t see Probability Manip, History Erase, or a Time Travel resist though…?). Would like to note that GV’s Regen is History based which I don’t think Soma has a negation too (only Narrative and Conceptual based)- and from what I can tell the Plot Hax doesn’t seem to be used in a way I would call “omnipotent”- more of one of those things that magic in the verse has as a property

Also, sorry I wasn’t able to get the new CRT applied to everyone in the GV Verse yet, I’ve been and still am pretty busy

That should probably be a Q&A thread in it of itself, but since Soma's Magic can go deeper than what Gunvolt is capable of (Then again revisions can change this), I think he might be able to affect Gunvolt. Also people are saying that Castlevania's Layers are actually only 13-14, and that 720 is the amount of universes scaled to, but I don't know if Glass himself has said this.

Also it works in the way that rewrites the narrative and reshape how one’s powers work.

 

[Purmeenant]

That should probably be a Q&A thread in it of itself, but since Soma's Magic can go deeper than what Gunvolt is capable of (Then again revisions can change this), I think he might be able to affect Gunvolt. Also people are saying that Castlevania's Layers are actually only 13-14, and that 720 is the amount of universes scaled to, but I don't know if Glass himself has said this.

Also it works in the way that rewrites the narrative and reshape how one’s powers work.

Castlevania revisions

So after quite some time of digging through the franchise, and especially going through Grimoire of Souls for a bit, I've found quite a lot of things to help flesh out the pages more, so lets get to it. Creatures of Chaos So for starters, and just to help make it a lesser pain in the ass for...

vsbattles.com

 

[Theglassman12]

@AlphaOmegaV1 I said at bare minimum it can be 13-14 with how Dracula’s magic works, but with the grimoires documenting every single time any of the hunters fought Dracula and was slain (which there are literal hundreds of grimoires in the library documenting this), it goes up to 720+. The universe scaling is from time reaper erasing all worlds which would include all of the Grimoires since they’re confirmed to be alternate worlds.

 

[Smashtwig]

13 is already enough layers anyways. I guess Magic would just nullify Prevasion anyways by going "yeah I hit you anyways because I said so" with plot hax. Same with regen. If that's the case GV just wouldn't have any defenses at all. But still this doesn't answer my question of any resistances to History Erasure and stuff like that. If not I can probably(big ? mark + cope) argue some kinda incon since Astral Order is a passive thing

 

[Theglassman12]

The chaos magic will literally destabilize the target’s powers to not work the way it should so whatever abilities Gunvolt would try to do is just gonna get messed up. Also does he even have the ability to affect abstract existences or higher dimensional existences? Because Soma as a dark lord is tied to a higher concept that exists independently of reality, on top of the fact all of the castle’s magic happens passively so Gunvolt’s either got an uphill fight or is just ****** period.

 

[Smashtwig]

Oh. If the magic is happening passively then yeah GV doesn't have anything and gets stomped.

The Crux of my potential argument was that Astral Order is passive and maybe it could affect Soma before he can use his magic- but since you say that it's passive then yeah he's cooked

 

[Stillwinston]

Don't suppose a belmont would be viable at all?

 

[Purmeenant]

Don't suppose a belmont would be viable at all?

Are we allowed to change match ups mid thread?

 

[Theglassman12]

Yes that’s allowed, especially if it’s deemed to be a stomp to make a fairer fight since stomp matches aren’t allowed to be submitted into the profiles. Though your options for Castlevania is limited since only a handful of characters don’t outright have chaos powers or is a creature of chaos themselves.

 

[Purmeenant]

Well there goes the whole "One hit kill Passive Hax vs One hit kill Passive Hax" idea. Hopefully this one isn't a stomp

 

[Smashtwig]

oh nah how could you do my man like this isnt trevor one of the weakest belmonts you could have let him get cooked by goated julius or smth they got the same moves for the most part

 

[Purmeenant]

oh nah how could you do my man like this isnt trevor one of the weakest belmonts you could have let him get cooked by goated julius or smth they got the same moves for the most part

Yeah should've used Leon with the Alchemy Whip instead

 

[Theglassman12]

@Smashtwig don't insult Trevor, man’s got his rizz game on lockdown compared to Julius.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

@Smashtwig don't insult Trevor, man’s got his rizz game on lockdown compared to Julius.

any Belmont before Julius has the game on lockdown considering he's not confirmed to have any descendant

 

[Theglassman12]

True but can the other Belmonts do this?

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay so Trevor has no chaos powers, he does have passive power null is GV okay against this?

 

[Smashtwig]

True but can the other Belmonts do this?

Yea we share the same brain cell Julius would skill diff every other Belmont lol

Anyways this match depends on what haxes GV be throwing out and what can be resisted. The main worries that come to kind are time travel, 2A history erasure, and, probability manip (though it's tied to the Fate Manipulation so idk)

 

[Theglassman12]

If it’s tied to fate hax then it doesn’t sound like it’s going to help in the long run with the whole fate hax resistance the Belmonts have. Is there anything else Gunvolt has that can help him?

 

[Smashtwig]

That would require me to go through the hax list and compare it with the resist but I got class in a couple minutes. First thing that comes to mind is 4D Transformation into Electrons, Type 2 Info, or Radio Waves

(edit. That's weird do the Belmonts not have AZ resist? I thought they would share what Dracula or Soma has. Nvm they do but in this case GV has "below" absolute zero. Obviously that doesn't make sense but they do state it literally just goes "no" to physics and thermodynamics so it might be worth something unless their AZ resist is 4D)

Also I meant that the probability manip alone was directly tied to the fate. The other two (History EE and Time Travel) still seem to stem from Astral Order but it's unknown if it's directly related to the fate hax thing (basically they might be entirely separate abilities underneath the "Astral Order Umbrella", because Fate/Future manip has nothing to do with manipulatng the past)

 

[Theglassman12]

What does 4-D transformation mean? Is gunvolt shapeshifting into timeline sized electrons or what?

The absolute zero stuff is just typical AZ stuff, everything that’s tied to 4-D hax and stuff is all the chaos stuff and Dracula’s magic.

How likely is he to use Astral Order first over all of his gear against someone he’s not familiar with?

 

[Smashtwig]

What does 4-D transformation mean? Is gunvolt shapeshifting into timeline sized electrons or what?

To simplify it down it pretty much the same move as Prevasion just used on other people

Prevasion let GV intang through an attack that straight up erased timelines- said attack was able to bypass a normal (3D) Prevasion user, but not GV’s.

Essentially it’s just the potency of Prevasion that’s 4D because it worked on 4D attacks that should have logically bypassed it being... 4D. Its in the similar vein as "4D Magic"

Regardless I don’t see Type 2 Info resist on any profile for some reason, so even if it wasn’t 4D I’d reckon it’d… work?

The absolute zero stuff is just typical AZ stuff everything that’s tied to 4-D hax and stuff is all the chaos stuff and Dracula’s magic.

Aight so it’s not working

How likely is he to use Astral Order first over all of his gear against someone he’s not familiar with?

Unfortunately… he does indeed use it first. In fact time traveling stuff is the very first thing he does when he gets control over Astral Order (was berserk before then cuz he was not in the pilot seat when he first got the power).

The precog and fate stuff (the latter of which Trevor resists) is passive too, so that would also be “the first thing he does” (if you didn’t notice by now it’s just Yhwach’s Almighty word for word). That Precog would let him know that none of his normal attacks would work and he'd probably just look into the futures where he has hax wincons instead






Lemme copy paste some stuff down here of other things GV can do that might help in his favor

———

Offensive (list of things I don’t see a resistance to (WIP) )

• Aforementioned Time Travel and History EE
• Aforementioned Type 2 Info Transmutation
• Matter Absorption / Manipulation (…somehow? I see that they have Bio absorption resist but its also Matter Absorption too)
• Blood Manipulation (…somehow? This isn’t super important, what this would do would be stunning them for a bit by controlling the blood in people)

Defensive

• Vector Manipulation (this is mostly a defensive thing, but it can be used to deflect a knife throw or something)
• Elise Ressurection and overall High G Regen (I see that Belmonts have Regen Neg on a Plot and Conceptual level, but not History. The way I currently understand how Regen Neg works, you’d have to be able to Negate the same type of Regeneration that the Regenner can regen from. If the Belmonts can destroy GV on a Plot or Conceptual way then it’s a different story tho… but I don’t see that on the profile…?)
• Prevasion (Maybe? Layered 4D Passive Electron Intangibility, I find that it doesn’t make sense that hitting on a Quantum Level doesn’t make you get past the layer- Quantum or Macro-Quantum, both are enough to get past the ability if you hit the guy you hit the guy- THEN you’d have to get past the layer. Though I’m sure the Belmonts have more than enough layers I’d just like confirmation in the thread anyways. Plus I might be blind but I don’t see Macro-Quantum NPI or lower anywhere- I get that you need to understand Quantum Physics to use magic but I don’t see it actually hitting on that level anywhere besides hitting spatial barriers. Even then I don’t think Trevor has much super notable ranged magic to work with anyways that GV cant move away from …? Except the Vampire Killer ig)
• Magnetism Manipulation: GV’s Passive Flashfield should be able to manipulate magnetism and block incoming knives and axes and stuff like that (a much weaker and inexperienced A. Striker, Blade, uses magnetism to control her blades so I’m sure GV does the same because he uses magnetism to straight up hover which should be more advanced to a technique)

Mobility

• With all due respect to Castlevania fans (remember I only played till the false ending of Aria)- I do think that Gunvolt / Mega Man bosses have far more complex boss attack patterns. They’ve practically got screen clearing or quite literally danmaku level attacks that I don’t think Castlevania protags have dealt with. So automatically I think that GV would have a much easier time dodging and landing hits than a Belmont can when it comes to pure “skill”.
• Teleportation spam: Even when in a Berserk state, Gunvolt is a teleportation merchant spammer. I genuinely think he might be running circles around Trevor with it (and yes it is teleportation, not a speed amp, they programmed it so that it’s one teleport per button press and you can just mash)
• Flight: When I think of Castlevania and Trevor specifically I think of the NES Castlevania III, if GV’s chilling a distance that Trevor can’t reach I’d assume that Trevor just can’t hit the guy with at least the Vampire Killer, which is probably the best thing he has to beat GV? Besides that his subweapons could be affected by magnetism manipulation.

Other

There’s also his Serpentine Image Pulse- Serpentine isn’t a character uploaded to the wiki yet, but it’s already accepted that GV should have her powers, so I can list what she does rq (again, really sorry that I couldn’t get all of the revisions applied from the CRT before this matchup began, I’m trying to go as fast as I can but uh, busy). Basically she looks into a person’s memories and create past foes from those memories to fight against the victim. So maybe GV can just spawn a Dracula on Trevor? That might be a disingenuous argument tho so I’m okay with it not being taken into account

 

[Theglassman12]

So it's just intangibility against timeline erasure. Not really sure if that's gonna be an auto dodge when the Belmonts can affect all forms of intangibility and has 4-D range.

Regardless I don’t see Type 2 Info resist on any profile for some reason

Imagine saying a gothic metroidvania not having type 2 info hax is strange.

So he'd need to try and figure out the future, which doesn't really help if Trevor needs to hit him one time for him to just die.

Time travel won't be much of a factor when Trevor's unfazed by the paradoxical effects of Judgment's entire story. History EE can help but Trevor can fight and kill the time reaper, who threatened to erase all of time, so that's nothing new to him.

The Belmonts resist quantum manipulation and biological absorption so idk how matter absorption is gonna help.

The history level regen won't matter much when the belmonts can destroy creatures of chaos' souls, which have their concepts like chaos, so destroying Gunvolt's concept will just kill him since his high godly doesn't cover conceptual.

The Belmonts literally have the range to affect all of castlevania, which has several universes/space times within it, so unless Gunvolt's spreading his atoms across the multiverse, I'm not seeing how he's dodging his magic.

magnetism can only help so much and the belmonts don't need to throw their sub weapons when item crashes exist, which can AOE nuke the entire screen. Plus Trevor can just use the stop watch, which has layered hax thanks to affecting creatures of chaos, who can move in stopped time in the abyss and other beings that are conceptually removed from time, so at best the magnetism is only stopping the knives and axe, leaving him with the holy water and stopwatch, both of which helps him far more than the other two thanks to the item crashes.

Dracula and Death and literally the medusa head's entire existence gives the belmonts more than enough danmaku experience when that's their main schtick, so danmaku means jackshit to a family of hunters who fights beings like these every generation.

Teleportation is literally dracula's most spammed move in all of the games, so spamming teleporting isn't anything new here.

Trevor's a Belmont, who can do superhuman jumps to reach places in castlevania that requires flight to access and he fights flying creatures all the time. Gunvolt flying is nothing new to him and he can easily close the distance if he wants to.

Serpentine Image Pulse is literally just what Dracula's magic can do by touching people, so the memory reading just isn't gonna work. Spawning Dracula on trevor also isn't really gonna help assuming this can work when he's easily comparable to Dracula by Curse of Darkness as stated by Hector himself.

 

[Smashtwig]

Well Trevor definitely has a lot more than he initially gives off the vibes for. I honestly thought Belmonts really were just normal dudes with an eff ton of resistances + a whip

So it's just intangibility against timeline erasure. Not really sure if that's gonna be an auto dodge when the Belmonts can affect all forms of intangibility and has 4-D range.

The Belmonts literally have the range to affect all of castlevania, which has several universes/space times within it, so unless Gunvolt's spreading his atoms across the multiverse, I'm not seeing how he's dodging his magic.

I've heard that you'd specifically have to hit things as small as electrons to count as hitting it- and the feat seems to only be the "hitting the fire guy" thing which may just not hit GV at all because hitting fire would be easier than hitting something as small as electrons

I'm sort of still struggling to wrap my head on the whole range thing when the games don't depict such ranges in normal gameplay but I can get behind it. Like is bro swinging his whip and then hits the entire multiverse when he does it? Having a hard time depicting what this all encompassing range looks like in my head. Also, forgive me for this misunderstanding but wasn't the sealing of Castlevania done by using the V. Killer like how the Master Sword seals by being placed in its pedastal? I vaguely recall Julius saying that he needed to get his whip since the seal the V. Killer wasnt working as a seal? If so, wouldn't the multiversal range of magic only really apply to the V. Killer and not like Grand Cross or smth

Imagine saying a gothic metroidvania not having type 2 info hax is ststrange.

E. So is this a wincon or not...? If so GV might be able to do smth because this kind of thing is pretty instant as soon as he thinks about (Septima are psychic powers so things that happen are a direct result of Adepts willing to do em)

So he'd need to try and figure out the future, which doesn't really help if Trevor needs to hit him one time for him to just die.

Not sure what you mean by this one? GV views infinite futures at a singular time- what I meant by "look into the successful timelines" I meant like, GV would do the thing he did in a future where he would win. Well assuming he has a wincon

Time travel won't be much of a factor when Trevor's unfazed by the paradoxical effects of Judgment's entire story.

o... didn't see Acausality Type 1 anywhere, maybe I was blind?

History EE can help but Trevor can fight and kill the time reaper, who threatened to erase all of time, so that's nothing new to him.

Not sure how this interaction works, so say GV manages to History EE the guy does Trevor just fight the Time Reaper and recover from it... after he's already lost? Or does History EE not work at all? Like I'm not sure how being able to kill the Time Reaper factors into this

.

The history level regen won't matter much when the belmonts can destroy creatures of chaos' souls, which have their concepts like chaos, so destroying Gunvolt's concept will just kill him since his high godly doesn't cover conceptual.

Oh, so that's how that works- so he can kill GVs Concept. Does that just come from NPI? Because I didnt really see this at all

magnetism can only help so much and the belmonts don't need to throw their sub weapons when item crashes exist, which can AOE nuke the entire screen. Plus Trevor can just use the stop watch, which has layered hax thanks to affecting creatures of chaos, who can move in stopped time in the abyss and other beings that are conceptually removed from time, so at best the magnetism is only stopping the knives and axe, leaving him with the holy water and stopwatch, both of which helps him far more than the other two thanks to the item crashes.

Tbh i completely forgot about Item Crashes, was about to say that Holy Water being a ground based thing wouldnt be helpful

Dracula and Death and literally the medusa head's entire existence gives the belmonts more than enough danmaku experience when that's their main schtick, so danmaku means jackshit to a family of hunters who fights beings like these every generation.

Aight, well my main point was that Mega Man bosses just generally felt harder to fight, but either way GV should overall have better mobility options to dodge

Teleportation is literally dracula's most spammed move in all of the games, so spamming teleporting isn't anything new here.

Bu-bu- his teleportation is slowww- but seriously I don't see how having experience against teleportation makes it not a good defensive option, like having experience against a sword dude while unarmed doesn't completely negate the inherit advantage a sword gives

Trevor's a Belmont, who can do superhuman jumps to reach places in castlevania that requires flight to access and he fights flying creatures all the time. Gunvolt flying is nothing new to him and he can easily close the distance if he wants to.

Oh wait Trevor has Julius's OP uppercut move? I really only associate bro with the NES game




---

So at the end of the day... what IS GVs win condition? Like apparently if Trevor just swings his whip he just auto hits? Like, is the Info Type 2 Transmutation gonna work...? How does the History EE thing interact with the Time Reaper? If GV has a win condition his Precog will let him see it and he'll be able to achieve it and I can argue an incon but otherwise like... he gets stomped and we can't add anything

 

[Theglassman12]

The fire guy is not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to another enemy in the series who can phase through walls and become one with them a la the Flash in DC. Magic is capable of affecting them, plus Quantum stuff are far smaller than electrons so something like electrons wouldn't be an issue for Castlevania characters.

The Belmont's own magic is capable of sealing away castlevania itself. The Vampire Killer in Aria was only done to drain Dracula's powers given the fact his reincarnation was broken after 1999, plus it would make no sense for them to just leave their weapon inside of the castle when every single time the castle arises, they have the vampire killer on hand from the get go, as for the whole affecting castlevania itself, Julius when doing Grand Cross in Aria literally affects the entire castle as shown with the castle collapsing from his power. In regards to the whole "being tied to the vampire killer itself" thing, the belmonts can directly channel the whip's power into themselves. Trevor in particular is stated to being able to channel the vampire killer's power when doing Grand Cross so he's not limited to using just the whip, as opposed to him using its full power.

They don't resist info type 2 so it's a potential wincon, I'm just poking fun at the fact that you're finding the lack of resistance strange when Information manipulation is one of the last things to expect from a gothic metroidvania franchise.

How long does it take for him to process the future in order to find a win condition in the first place? If it takes him some time for him to do that, he's gonna have very limited time when Trevor can hit him once with anything and it results in Gunvolt dying.

Type 1's scaled to all of the Judgment roster, though it might be missing from the Belmonts for some reason.

I'm saying being able to erase someone's history is something Trevor has dealt with in the past given the Time Reaper literally tried to do that, so this isn't going to catch him by surprise and he'd just realize Gunvolt will do the same since he can sense magic and one's presence, so he'd recognize what's going on and try to shut him down.

It's also stemmed from the soul hax in the series, and my recent CRT has added that creatures of chaos (and just any living being in general) has chaos in their souls, which is a universal concept in the franchise. So destroying one's soul would mean he'd be able to destroy their concept.

Feeling harder to fight is kind of subjective because of the different kind of gameplay we're talking about so idk how that's relevant here. By this logic that's like me saying Ninja Gaiden has far harder bosses to deal with than something in Devil May Cry or God of War, therefore Ryu has far better mobility and options than Dante and Kratos.

Having experience means he knows what to expect and what works and doesn't. If Trevor is gonna fight Gunvolt and realizes he's gonna spam teleporting all the time, nothing's stopping him from trying to item crash with Hydro Storm to AOE nuke him or stopwatch him to make him stand still to get a good hit in.

Yes, that's all a standard Belmont thing when even Richter has it as a normal thing in SOTN. Judgment and Curse of Darkness has Trevor doing all sorts of crazy shit despite coming sometime after this NES game so that's just gameplay limitations to assume he's only stuck with jumping and whipping.

If the transmutation stuff specifically works through information hax then sure, but I also have to question if Gunvolt has anything against the Vampire Killer's passive power null and statistics reduction. If he can't get through the former specifically then he might be ******, if he can then it depends on if Trevor can hit first or Gunvolt.

 

[Smashtwig]

It's late and ill be back tmrw so ill do some spark notes on some of the questions you have

He pretty much processed what's going on with the precog the very first time he experienced it, while it'd done in a cutscene where the player clicks through the text, one of GVs reaction to the situation is "oh dang those a lot of futures" and from the PoV of others he was fine one second and the very next he's gasping for air from the experience. Now that he has control over the power he should be able to process the precog instantly since it's passively working.

How the Transmutation hax works is indeed through Information Hax. GV specifically says he's replicating Teseo who transforms matter into the data/information that makes up reality. To further prove this Teseo’s Hack the Planet ability is under the same "family" as GV's Azure Striker

So looks like that's a wincon. As for your Power Null question it depends on if it's on contact or if it's just a passive multiversal aura of null with 13-720+ 4D Layers then yeah GV is cooked his Power Null Resist Layers cap at like... mid-single digits. From what I understood it works when Julius sealed the whip in Dracula’s Castl- Why does this fight take place in Dracula’s damn castle???


(also bro its castlevania its a legacy verse im expecting every hax ability to be on there lol)

 

[Theglassman12]

So is there any showcase of him processing the futures and immediately following suite with any of his other abilities? The scans in question mostly show how the person that has this Astral Order is just rewriting fate as a result of this.

So how fast does this transmutation work?

Trevor's power null is baseline 4-D since he's in the earliest part of the timeline, so none of the layers stuff is working.

Bro Zelda, Pokemon and Metroid are also legacy franchises and they don't have damn near every ability ever for a majority of the cast.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Trevor's power null is baseline 4-D since he's in the earliest part of the timeline, so none of the layers stuff is working.

oh so are we forgetting Lament of Innocence or is there a reason it's not the earliest

 

[Smashtwig]

Again, spark notes cuz I’m literally going to bed

So is there any showcase of him processing the futures and immediately following suite with any of his other abilities? The scans in question mostly show how the person that has this Astral Order is just rewriting fate as a result of this.

Astral Order doesn’t have too much screen time and pops in at the end so there’s not too much to go off of

GV doesn’t really get much of a chance to do immediate action because at first he doesn’t even possess Astral Order at the time, just shown what it Precogs and he recognized it as the future.

Then when he does get control over it he takes immediate action with it to time travel (well more like as soon as he got the reins he immediately got more context on the earlier predictions he saw when he didn’t even have AO- and then based on that info he felt the best move was to time travel). When he does this he seems to claim that his Azure Striker collaborates with Astral Order to make it happen- so I would assume that he can use his Transmutation powers

If your question is that if GV is unable to use any electricity powers immediately after Precogging- the Precog is passive, and it's not like GV is forced to use Astral Order after seeing a future with it. even Moebius (the original owner of AO) seemed to use his energy projection abilities while constantly predicting the future

So how fast does this transmutation work

Should be as fast as his Lightning Assault (it is p much the same move), which I’ve shown before. To clarify, when this move was actually used GV did this to his allies as a means of teleportation similar to what he does when normally teleporting his allies shorter distances. In both cases GV is responsible for turning them into information and back so that his ally could be… alive. And this was done in a high stress scenario that required extremely precise timing and accuracy with the consequences of failing being the destruction of a whole country. This ability pretty much has to be instant for this to work.

Prevasion, which also the same thing- also happens instantly (automatic activation)

The move it’s based on, that being Teseo’s matter-info conversion also takes effect instantly, one-shotting immediately on contact (though in GVs case there’s no need to hit an attack or anything he just, wills it to happen and it happens). The teleportation variant done by Teseo is also instant.
- Teseo specifically uses it in this offensive manner, so GV would be able to do so as well- and in character would be willing to do that if his Precog is telling him it’s the only wincon he has. He has no qualms killing his foes, especially in the first two games

Just in case you don't believe that GV has the choice to just leave a dude as information and is not forced to turn him back (for whatever absurd reason when he's the guy fully in control of all steps of the warp- honestly don't think you'd argue this but just in case)

• His ally in the feat straight up calls herself a passenger in the situation, so GV is in full control of the action
• Teseo is specifically able to turn matter to info and back at his command, and is the basis for all of his attack patterns and even his stage- so GV replicating him (he specifically states "my Azure Striker should be able to do the same thing) would mean he is responsible for both transmuting to and back, just in case you don't believe that GV has no control
• GV himself is able to give physical form to his memory by solidifying electricity into straight up other people called "Image Pulses" and other things like fire and ice, so he is definitely able to form things from information / electronic data into something physical at his own will- so he simply could just... not- here.

On this topic I have absolutely zero doubts. It happens immediately.

Trevor's power null is baseline 4-D since he's in the earliest part of the timeline, so none of the layers stuff is working.

Oh neat. Yeah GV resists pretty handily with multiple layers of 4D Power Null and Stat Reductions

Bro Zelda, Pokemon and Metroid are also legacy franchises and they don't have damn near every ability ever for a majority of the cast.

I more of mean that I expect legacy verses with a lot of history to just have more potential to have hax statements than a newer verse like ASG, also pokemon crackeded

 

[Theglassman12]

@AnAverageUsername Leon never fought Dracula, only death so he’s just a non factor when it comes to the layered hax scaling since he doesn’t have any form of Dracula scaling.

@Smashtwig Not really sure how being a passenger helps support the fact that he has control over the transmutation stuff, the rest sure but that statement is kind of a nothing burger statement.

In regards to precognition, Trevor has some experience with beings that can see into the future like Witches, who in general can see into the future and Aeon, who oversees all timelines so he might have some familiarity to know what to do. So this sounds like it just boils down to if Gunvolt or Trevor can land their killing blow first.

 

[Smashtwig]

I more of put in that statement there to enforce the fact that there is no one part of the equation except for GV himself. But back to the topic-

It kinda looks like the same thing as per usual with GV matches- Incon because it comes down to who does the winning move first. At first I initially thought that GV would have an advantage in this regard because his move is thought based, which means that he can theoretically pull out the move quicker than Trevor can take out an item to do his move- but also I'm not sure if Trevor even needs to do any physical action to do his Item Crashes like, Hydro Storm (is that the H. Water Item Crash or is that just a Richter-exclusive move) or something. Pretty sure that means an incon to me

 

[Theglassman12]

Hydro Storm is not a Richter exclusive thing, Richter's ancestor Juste is able to do Hydro Storm, Grand cross among many other forms of item crashes easily. Trevor's shown to do the same kinds of Item Crashes in Curse of Darkness, especially ones very similar to stuff that Leon had to use via specific orb + sub weapon crashes, where Trevor just learns it naturally thanks to his training. As for using physical actions, stuff like the stop watch doesn't really need much of an action and Hydro storm is just him making a simple jesture to cause a holy rainstorm that ***** everything around him.

Either way, sounds like an incon to me. Either Gunvolt manages to get his precog to find what few abilities he can use to potentially win, or trevor just lands a single hit with whatever AOE moves he has.

 

[Smashtwig]

 

[Theglassman12]

 

[Purmeenant]

Hydro Storm is not a Richter exclusive thing, Richter's ancestor Juste is able to do Hydro Storm, Grand cross among many other forms of item crashes easily. Trevor's shown to do the same kinds of Item Crashes in Curse of Darkness, especially ones very similar to stuff that Leon had to use via specific orb + sub weapon crashes, where Trevor just learns it naturally thanks to his training. As for using physical actions, stuff like the stop watch doesn't really need much of an action and Hydro storm is just him making a simple jesture to cause a holy rainstorm that ***** everything around him.

Either way, sounds like an incon to me. Either Gunvolt manages to get his precog to find what few abilities he can use to potentially win, or trevor just lands a single hit with whatever AOE moves he has.

Inconclusive for the both of you?

 

[Smashtwig]

Ye

 

[Xmark12]

Incon FRA

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump