Transformers Prime: Tier 7 Hunters

[Crabwhale]

Alright so I've recently noticed that we scale all the characters in the show to at least 7-A. This is bad and wrong.

The feat being used for this scaling is this one. Now, the first and most obvious problem with this is the massive inconsistency it presents with the rest of the verse. Simply put, the Transformers are not going around lugging mountain-busting weaponry, and you can see this by booting up literally any episode of the series. Specific examples of humans hurting Cybertronians or Cybertronian structures with no special powers attached also include but are not limited to the US Air Force blowing up Darkmount with regular, not even nuclear, missiles and the kids literally using an ordinary axe to damage Soundwave's tentacles.

Another issue is that Megatron does not qualify for the full rating of 7-A, let alone an "at least", because the explosions would've straight up killed him were it for the Dark Energon in his spark. This is a distinct plot point, and the only reason he lived past this (in a vegetative state I might add) is that he was instantly picked up by the Nemesis after Starscream pulled the Dark Energon shard out.

I think I've demonstrated amply why this rating is a complete bust, so I propose it get's changed to this by Ablobloobloo the Despunter. It's still a little bit high-balled I would say, but it's a far more agreeable compromise than what we have right now.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I mean the Dark Energon kept Megs alive, but it didn't shield his body or anything, the durability is still the same (as evidenced by Screamer and everyone else under the effects of Dark Energon). Also I'm not sure how much we're bound to count that scene of the kids damaging Soundwave's tendrils with an axe, that's always seemed like PIS to me in order to make them seem relevant to the plot. Cybertronian structures are another matter, I think, plus the US Air Force was using the specialized Skystrikers there, and that's the only time in that series where we see those jets.

A while back before this tier was approved I suggested "At least City level, up to Mountain level" since there were quite a few City level calcs for TFP, but I'm kinda fine with whatever (even something like "At least MCB, up to Mountain level", gaps like those I'm always fine with to show low and high-ends for characters).

 

[JoshSSJGod]

May I ask. Where is the calc for the entire TFP cast tanking the Omega Lock explosion? I remember that was used to support 7-A and would at least be a good baseline for the cast considering they all tanked the explosion without an issue.

 

[Crabwhale]

I mean the Dark Energon kept Megs alive, but it didn't shield his body or anything, the durability is still the same (as evidenced by Screamer and everyone else under the effects of Dark Energon).

I take issue with scaling durability to a feat that for all intents and purposes killed someone. I might step on a landmine and get blown to smithereens, do I get 9-A just because my upper body didn't get pulverized like my legs?

Also I'm not sure how much we're bound to count that scene of the kids damaging Soundwave's tendrils with an axe, that's always seemed like PIS to me in order to make them seem relevant to the plot.

There's also them beating Scraplets to death with crowbars lol. Same Scraplets that can eat a Cybertronian's hand off.

Now do I think that's good to scale? No. But I'd rather explore getting to a happy medium than splurging out and going for either the highest or lowest possible rating. I think 7-A as is, is disingenuous as **** given where they're normally at.

Cybertronian structures are another matter, I think, plus the US Air Force was using the specialized Skystrikers there, and that's the only time in that series where we see those jets.

I couldn't find a single thing referencing to this being in the series, there's no evidence for Skystrikers in this universe randomly being able to blow an at least 7-A fortress to nothing.

A while back before this tier was approved I suggested "At least City level, up to Mountain level" since there were quite a few City level calcs for TFP, but I'm kinda fine with whatever (even something like "At least MCB, up to Mountain level", gaps like those I'm always fine with to show low and high-ends for characters).

I'd like to see those calcs to be honest, but in either case am extremely unconvinced.

 

[Tapkmiz]

With regards to the human characters being capable of harming Soundwave etc., I think this is indicative of how TFP has pretty sloppy writing, and this isn't limited to the humans. A singular Insecticon was capable of bringing Megatron to his knees but later on they're cannon fodder.

That said I don't see how Megatron's durability would scale to the explosion taking what you've said in mind.

 

[Crabwhale]

With regards to the human characters being capable of harming Soundwave etc., I think this is indicative of how TFP has pretty sloppy writing, and this isn't limited to the humans. A singular Insecticon was capable of bringing Megatron to his knees but later on they're cannon fodder.

That example was to be fair perhaps taken in a different light than I intended.

The point moreso was to showcase that the show has extreme high ends and extreme low ends. Using either is bad, in my opinion.

 

[Tapkmiz]

The point moreso was to showcase that the show has extreme high ends and extreme low ends. Using either is bad, in my opinion.

I don't disagree with looking for a middle point, for the record. I looked at the pages and there's this and this both of which are tier 7, both being well below the explosion that almost killed Megatron, though I must note that if it's the shockwave for the second feat what's being used to justify 7-A, I don't see how it isn't a gigantic outlier.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I disagree with this completely. The military in TFP has technology that is MHS+ and can easily slice through buildings, and there is a long list of calculated feats that reach tier 7, such as the Nemesis explosion, the Nemesis’s heat beam which Optimus could tank, and the Star Saber cutting through a mountain.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, while yes, 7-A is kind of a high-end(even with 2 feats to it's name), there are more tier 7 feats then a  single 8-B feat, if you don't like said tier 7 scaling, well sorry, but uh, there's like 3 7-B calcs running around to use instead.

I don't like 7-A either, but there's not a lot to do with the consistency of tier 7 lol

 

[Shadyboi0]

Why not 7-B then?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why not 7-B then?

That was my point LMFAO

 

[Tapkmiz]

Yeah, while yes, 7-A is kind of a high-end(even with 2 feats to it's name)

I've only seen one 7-A calc looking through the pages, wasn't the space bridge explosion just fairly high into 7-B? Or am I missing something?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I've only seen one 7-A calc looking through the pages, wasn't the space bridge explosion just fairly high into 7-B? Or am I missing something?

Pretty sure Spacebridge is thrown into the 7-A category for whatever reason

 

[Tapkmiz]

Just checked, it's 89.73 megatons, which is 7-B+. Since it would've killed Megatron had it not been for the dark energon I don't see how you can just add the 10ish megatons remaining to use the feat as supportive evidence for a 232.13 megaton 7-A feat. 7-B does look the most consistent in this case.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Just checked, it's 89.73 megatons, which is 7-B+. Since it would've killed Megatron had it not been for the dark energon I don't see how you can just add the 10ish megatons remaining to use the feat as supportive evidence for a 232.13 megaton 7-A feat. 7-B does look the most consistent in this case.

Makes sense

Though I should note that around 90 Megatons ain't far from 232 megatons relatively

 

[Not_Icarus]

I don't mind the 7-A ratings as they're so close to the 7-B calcs that it makes little difference in practically. There's more tier 7 than tier 8 Prime so I'm personally more with tier 7 but I don't mind sharing both tiers at the same time.

 

[Zeinx1]

i agree with 7b

 

[Crabwhale]

I categorically disagree with a tier 7 rating period tbh

The arguments I presented against 7-A do not change whatsoever if we switch to a 7-B calc.

 

[Tapkmiz]

The arguments I presented against 7-A do not change whatsoever if we switch to a 7-B calc.

The argument was that a 7-B+ near 7-A explosion almost killed Megatron (which I agree puts a hard cap on his durability), but with how much lower the other two feats are —at low 7-B and a few megatons above 7-B— I don't see how using them is all that unreasonable. The 8-B calc you mention is pretty casual to my understanding of the feat, being the result of Breakdown and Bulkhead fighting and not something that meaningfully threatened either one of them, so I don't see how it helps your point all that much.

Humans barring the military being capable of harming transformers or similar is just indicative of TFP having pretty lackluster (or flexible?) writing for the sake of the plot, with humans not being the only example. Even with that in mind, I think they're still more consistently portrayed as incapable of doing much.

 

[Crabwhale]

The multitude of anti-feats pertaining to this particular rating are far too high for me to give ground on it. There's a difference between the plot demanding fluctuation of strength for any particular scenario that the writers desire to put in and there being a consistent range of feats that is being ignored for high-end stuff.

Smokescreen's escape pod explosion is barely the size of a city block by eyeballing and it kills not only a squad of Vehicons but also numerous Insecticons with them, the Autobots are visibly distressed when the Nemesis drops a several hundred meter that's rolling toward them and tell Optimus to dodge, etc. These are just feats I'm remembering off the top of my head.

If you require me to, I will go through the series and find many more. Because I know they are there. The point is the Transformers do not have the capacity to take mid-to-high end nuclear weaponry equivalents. I thoroughly disagree with such an assessment.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The multitude of anti-feats pertaining to this particular rating are far too high for me to give ground on it. There's a difference between the plot demanding fluctuation of strength for any particular scenario that the writers desire to put in and there being a consistent range of feats that is being ignored for high-end stuff.

Smokescreen's escape pod explosion is barely the size of a city block by eyeballing and it kills not only a squad of Vehicons but also numerous Insecticons with them, the Autobots are visibly distressed when the Nemesis drops a several hundred meter that's rolling toward them and tell Optimus to dodge, etc. These are just feats I'm remembering off the top of my head.

If you require me to, I will go through the series and find many more. Because I know they are there. The point is the Transformers do not have the capacity to take mid-to-high end nuclear weaponry equivalents. I thoroughly disagree with such an assessment.

Ah, but you want to downgrade them to 9-C to 9-B right?

You know, cause you're trying to use the human weaponry and the Escape Pod Explosion as anti-feats!

 

[Shadyboi0]

They might go back to High 8-C again? Idk

 

[Tapkmiz]

They might go back to High 8-C again? Idk

If the antifeats are common enough to the point where they can't be seen as poor writing then yes, with 8-B as a "likely" tier. Though they would have to be compiled and contextualized first

 

[Shadyboi0]

7-A never made sense to me tbh

 

[Crabwhale]

Ah, but you want to downgrade them to 9-C to 9-B right?

You know, cause you're trying to use the human weaponry and the Escape Pod Explosion as anti-feats!

Reaper, one of these days, please read my arguments.

Those feats were brought up to demonstrate an illogical low end, just as I think the feat being used right now is an illogical high end. I am advocating for a medium between "Megatron can walk up to Washington D.C. and turn the entire city to dust with a single punch" and "Megatron dies to an Avenger autocannon".

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Another issue is that Megatron does not qualify for the full rating of 7-A, let alone an "at least", because the explosions would've straight up killed him were it for the Dark Energon in his spark. This is a distinct plot point, and the only reason he lived past this (in a vegetative state I might add) is that he was instantly picked up by the Nemesis after Starscream pulled the Dark Energon shard out.

This I completely agree with (Idk what we were cooking with back then)

If you require me to, I will go through the series and find many more. Because I know they are there. The point is the Transformers do not have the capacity to take mid-to-high end nuclear weaponry equivalents. I thoroughly disagree with such an assessment.

I think this is the most appropriate route. Better to collect a plethora of feats and see what's consistent and what's not Using just one feat to downgrade isn't strong enough to downgrade the whole verse.