• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Toaru Aleister CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
Churronzon

Churronzon

Messages
958
Reaction score
320

Aleister Crowley (Base key)​

Immortality (Type 6; His consciousness gets transferred to one of the billion Crowley Hazards that are released upon his death)
ESP (Detected Coronzon spying on him from across the planet)
Energy Projection with A.A.A. (Can project red beams of light)
Information analysis & Statistics Reduction (Gained information on the Magic Gods' parameters with direct contact in order to hijack their spell and weaken them further, though this required him to kill one of them first)
Aura (Emits an invisible miasma when rebooting himself, a red haze envelops him after a blood sacrifice which can be used to stab people in order to remove demons possessing them)
Additional NPI justification (Attacked and destroyed the 10 spheres of Qliphah's soul/essence)
Can bypass automatic defenses(instinctive reaction)
Removing "Can bypass automatic defenses" (It's a justification that's not hyperlinked to any ability and Fiamma lost a lot of his abilities at this point in time so it likely wouldn't even count. [See the Fanta's comment here.])
Removing the weakness of needing his heart to survive (I have a scan stating "it did not matter where the bullet holes were located")
Moving his durability justification of being injured by bullets to his physicals as pictured here
Intelligence: Proclaims to be a reincarnation of the occultist Eliphas Levi and to have inherited his memories and techniques.
Adding optional equipment: Two Anti-Art Attachments he created and used in his fight against Coronzon.

Removing the 'Blood Sacrifice' and 'Son of God Synchronization' keys. Also downgrading some tiers and adding some new ones​

They aren't necessary, nor permanent buffs.
The stat amps should be covered/adapted into his base key. Aleister should not scale to his fight with Niang-Niang in neither AP nor speed as she intentionally lost and was actively helping Aleister breach Coronzon's barrier in doing so. Additionally, Aleister's base form is speed-capped to Touma's physicals. SoG synchronization buff would just get a tiering of higher rather than planet level since it wasn't even used in the timeframe that the current justifications state and thus doesn't scale to those characters, but still scales above his Blood Sacrifice buff since that weaker technique can't defeat Mathers. I'm also replacing the method Aleister reaches "at least Planet level" stats by specifying he accomplishes it via dual-wielding optional equipment he created and which tore apart Coronzon's Aethyr Avatar and because one A.A.A. had previously killed weakened Magic Gods.

I recommend supporters to view how it looks in the sandbox.
Since blitzing a peak human character isn't notable, characters that were scaling to the prior speed rating will have the following justifications removed:
  • Coronzon's Flaming Sword blitzing Aleister
  • Coronzon having better reactions than Aleister

New key (Aleiszon)​

Has all prior abilities from previous keys (except type 6 immortality) and possibly has some of Coronzon's abilities (via inhabiting her body and being able to call upon her), as well as:
Multiple Selves (Type 1; Hijacked Coronzon's body with her mind still inhabiting it)
Aura (Radiates a bestial aura)
Limited phase manipulation (Swapped the phase overlaying the world in order to strip "CRC" the benefit he receives from the land's support)
Statistics Amplification (Can boost himself by borrowing power from Aiwass and Coronzon)
Body Control, Flight, Air Manip, and Corrosion Inducement (Can grow wings and blow a wind that deteriorates objects it makes contact with)
I'm obligated to suggest this and the ability below also applies to Coronzon who he's invoking.
Forcefield creation (An invisible wall is placed in front of Aleister which diverted one of Johann's attacks.)
Attack Potency and Durability: At least Planet level, possibly far higher (Stronger than before. Inhabits Coronzon's body, can be empowered by Coronzon and Aiwass. Should be comparable to the other Abyss Crosser - Anna Sprengel), Varies, up to 3-A with Spiritual Tripping and up to At least High 1-C with Blasting Rod (He still has his Blasting Rod and Spiritual Tripping abilities)
Speed: Same as Base, at least Sub-Relativistic reaction speed (Can boost his reactions with Aiwass' and Coronzon's senses)
Intelligence: (Has specialized knowledge from having crossed the Abyss of Da'at.)

Sandbox​

 
Last edited:
Me thinks you should remove the "Can bypass automatic defenses" stuff.

“It’s time for you to give it a rest with this illusion of yours.”

He suddenly charged forward.

He did not need any tricks. He just approached in a straight line from the front. In response, Fiamma of the Right used everything he had to swing around the third arm that was the symbol of his power. The tremendous power contained within it was too great for Imagine Breaker to negate. If Kamijou failed to turn aside its trajectory, he could pulverize the boy’s entire right arm. That may have been what Fiamma was thinking as he tried to eliminate the obstacle before his eyes using brute force.

However, Kamijou did not stop.

The instant the attacking third arm struck his right fist head on, that oddly shaped arm that was Fiamma’s greatest weapon was blown away.

Fresh blood and flesh flew through the air.

He had finally managed to have his third arm incarnated, but it now lost its physical shell and trembled painfully in midair.

“What!?”

Intense pain must have assaulted him like an avalanche because the skin of his face became greatly distorted as he cried out.

Kamijou’s power had not been increased.

Imagine Breaker was nothing more than Imagine Breaker.

Fiamma’s third arm that responded to malice had been weakened to the point that it could be destroyed by even Imagine Breaker. Small pieces of virtue had spread like ripples until they had filled the entire surface of the earth effectively breaking the core that supported Fiamma’s power.

The power that made Fiamma of the Right special no longer existed.

It was doubtful whether he could use his direct attacks with his third arm or his evasion using instantaneous horizontal movement over kilometers.

Given that, he had no way of stopping Kamijou Touma’s advance.

The shock of the punch had knocked it from his hand. The spiritual item had fallen through the cracks on the floor. It was probably still within the fortress, but Fiamma had no idea where.

If he only had that, he could fight back with normal magic.

Fiamma thought that, but he had no strength left in his arms or legs. Now that he had lost his third arm, Fiamma was no different from a normal human. A light concussion was enough to inhibit his movements.

Fiamma's Holy Right was fricked up beyond repair by the time that Aleister got to him-with him explicitly mentioning that he lost access to his abilities-so it is likely the only reason Aleister could do his... thing... is cuz Fiamma was just way too weak at this point.

... Other then that, this is so fricking peak!
 
Churronzon said:
  • Coronzon's Flaming Sword blitzing Aleister
  • Coronzon having better reactions than Aleister
  • Mathers' 2nd key gets downgraded to peak human speed
Click to expand...
I kinda get why do that for Coronzon given we don't know if Blood Sacrifice was still active at that point (nothing implied a time limit for the body optimization IIRC).

But Mathers straight up fought Blood Sacrifice and the faster SoG, why would we downgrade him?

Churronzon said:
Additionally, Aleister's base form is speed-capped to Touma's physicals.
Click to expand...
He clearly says it here, his Base couldn't dodge Touma but Blood Sacrifice could keep up with the saints.

Only change I can see we doing for Mathers is adding a "higher with INRI" to his stats (which should be done regardless if there will be a tier change or not), I definitely don't see why we should downgrade his speed.
 
XDragnoir said:
But Mathers straight up fought Blood Sacrifice and the faster SoG, why would we downgrade him?
Click to expand...
I added it in last minute after I had posted the CRT so I didn't give it much thought. I forgot the Hazards' blood sacrifice was still in play so I'll just drop it and focus on Aleister.

Also I wasn't sure if SoG was faster without Aleister turning into a mass of light. If SoG provides a speed boost, I'll add a "higher" speed rating for INRI.
 
Also, I just noticed this, but unless Aleiszon was ever used in canon, we shouldn't name that key that way.

It should either be Abyss Crosser, Post-Coronzon Arc or something along these lines rather than a fanmade nickname.
 
Anything else need to be talked about here or nah? Cuz I'll go ahead go bother some mods about this thread if it is the latter.
 
Churronzon said:
least Planet level, possibly far higher (Stronger than before. Inhabits Coronzon's body, can be empowered by Coronzon and Aiwass. Should be comparable to the other Abyss Crosser - Anna Sprengel)
Click to expand...
I just noticed but there's a pretty minor problem here, just like his previous key, his base should be 9B, Aleister only gets Coronzon's power when entering Great Demon Mode and definitely didn't do anything in base that would be worth of 5B IMO (and trying to scale his base physicals Anna doesn't seem like a good reason to me either).
 
XDragnoir said:
I just noticed but there's a pretty minor problem here, just like his previous key, his base should be 9B, Aleister only gets Coronzon's power when entering Great Demon Mode and definitely didn't do anything in base that would be worth of 5B IMO (and trying to scale his base physicals Anna doesn't seem like a good reason to me either).
Click to expand...
Eh. Hasn't all of Aleister's fighting in GT so far were him in great demon mode? He asked for Coronzon's help against Mut and asked for help from Aiwass and Coronzon against CRC. Only time he hasn't is against Anna S. but it was firmly established that she can one-shot peps on Aiwass' level (and essentially had him on-hand like a Pokemon) so Aleister outright avoided confronting her until he bought back Anna K to deal with her. So listing 9-B would be redundant, IMO.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Eh. Hasn't all of Aleister's fighting in GT so far were him in great demon mode? He asked for Coronzon's help against Mut and asked for help from Aiwass and Coronzon against CRC. Only time he hasn't is against Anna S. but it was firmly established that she can one-shot peps on Aiwass' level (and essentially had him on-hand like a Pokemon) so Aleister outright avoided confronting her until he bought back Anna K to deal with her. So listing 9-B would be redundant, IMO.
Click to expand...
I mean, Accel's physical stats also haven't come into play since mid NT, but his Clonoth key still lists it.

So yeah, it has to be there because in a thread his base stats would come into play, regardless if in verse they are ignored.
 
I don’t mind listing it if it's true.
XDragnoir said:
I just noticed but there's a pretty minor problem here, just like his previous key, his base should be 9B, Aleister only gets Coronzon's power when entering Great Demon Mode and definitely didn't do anything in base that would be worth of 5B IMO (and trying to scale his base physicals Anna doesn't seem like a good reason to me either).
Click to expand...
If you have evidence to conclude a Great Demon's body is Wall level, you can post it. If it's left dubious, we can tack on a possibly conditional, but I'll look for DT's opinion regardless to help settle it.
 
Churronzon said:
If you have evidence to conclude a Great Demon's body is Wall level, you can post it. If it's left dubious, we can tack on a possibly conditional, but I'll look for DT's opinion regardless to help settle it.
Click to expand...
What? Coronzon's body is the same as a normal human body, it's not special because its hers.

The deal here is that different from Coronzon, who could reach 5B with default magic power, Aleister needs a specific transformation spell.
 
okay, I don't really care that much.
Were you suggesting the AP and dura would be 9-B physically, at least 5-B via invoking Coronzon?
 
Meh, that's fine. I suppose. Although, shouldn't the lower level of BR be mentioned? Like... As a 6-B, he used his 10x crud as an attack on KL, IIRC.

Maybe, BR should be High 6-B up to High 1-C with former mentioning BR 10x power and latter says its TMG scaling? IDK.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Meh, that's fine. I suppose. Although, shouldn't the lower level of BR be mentioned? Like... As a 6-B, he used his 10x crud as an attack on KL, IIRC.

Maybe, BR should be High 6-B up to High 1-C with former mentioning BR 10x power and latter says its TMG scaling? IDK.
Click to expand...
I don't see the need for that given BR can be used to strengthen any of his spells, it doesn't really start at H6B or any specific tier.

In his fight woth Touma he used it to increase the range/strength of a normal sword from ST, the sword didn't instantly become H6B, that's why it's indexed as "up to H1C", it's one of these cases where there's a clear end but not really a specific start.
 
Churronzon said:
How should I write the 9-B justification?
Click to expand...
Maybe... This?

"9-B physically (Shouldn't be physically weaker than before)"

... Yeah, this is the best I got. Personally, I think it is dumb to even consider Coronzon's body is this weak since it isn't stated anywhere nor is there any anti-feat whatsoever for Alesizon, and think we should just keep him at 5-B until Aleister jobs/gets anti-feats for simplicity's sake, lol.
XDragnoir said:
I don't see the need for that given BR can be used to strengthen any of his spells, it doesn't really start at H6B or any specific tier.

In his fight woth Touma he used it to increase the range/strength of a normal sword from ST, the sword didn't instantly become H6B, that's why it's indexed as "up to H1C", it's one of these cases where there's a clear end but not really a specific start.
Click to expand...
Thinking about this a bit more... How about instead of a specific rating, we should go for "higher up to At least High 1-C" for Blasting Rod? The former to account for Blasting Rod's lesser usages like what you mentioned or when he used BR against Knight Leader plus it won't be capped at a specific tier and the latter... again for BR's peak power against TMG peps. That, and IIRC, if a amp isn't directly stated in a profile's AP section it won't be applicable for when verse matches until it is added to the AP section in a CRT.


... Plus, this also might work for when Blasting Rod is mentioned in Aleister's range section.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
... Yeah, this is the best I got. Personally, I think it is dumb to even consider Coronzon's body is this weak since it isn't stated anywhere nor is there any anti-feat whatsoever for Alesizon, and think we should just keep him at 5-B until Aleister jobs/gets anti-feats for simplicity's sake, lol.
Click to expand...
Nor is her body stated to be naturally 5B in durability, much less AP, is it? Even Saints aren't 6B 100% of the time, they call upon their Saint power when fighting, even CRC who is a much better magician than Coronzon can't keep his physical stats constantly at 5B.


FantaRin_The_First said:
Thinking about this a bit more... How about instead of a specific rating, we should go for "higher up to At least High 1-C" for Blasting Rod? The former to account for Blasting Rod's lesser usages like what you mentioned or when he used BR against Knight Leader plus it won't be capped at a specific tier and the latter... again for BR's peak power against TMG peps.
Click to expand...
"It won't be capped at a specific tier", when it's still capped at H1C, what exactly changed? I don't really understand what you mean here.

FantaRin_The_First said:
That, and IIRC, if a amp isn't directly stated in a profile's AP section it won't be applicable for when verse matches until it is added to the AP section in a CRT.
Click to expand...
No? That has never been a thing, as long as the profile explains it then it can be used.

Which doesn't matter here, because BR has always had a tier, like, it's clearly stated to be "up to H1C" so it's already in the AP section, again, I don't really get what you mean.
 
XDragnoir said:
"It won't be capped at a specific tier", when it's still capped at H1C, what exactly changed? I don't really understand what you mean here.


No? That has never been a thing, as long as the profile explains it then it can be used.

Which doesn't matter here, because BR has always had a tier, like, it's clearly stated to be "up to H1C" so it's already in the AP section, again, I don't really get what you mean.
Click to expand...
You remember how IB had H1-C rating in his AP and SS rating and that sometimes Touma had a horrible mis-match cuz they thought Touma's H1-C AP/SS applies there until I removed it?

What I am trying to propose, giving Aleister a "higher" rating alongside his High 1-C rating, is meant to prevent that from happening to him.

The Higher rating here accounts for the times such as when 9-B!Aleister 10x-ed his sword to hit Touma or when 6-B!Aleister 10x-ed his spell to knock out Knight Leader (well, 100x, since Aleister straight up told him Blasting Rod power before using it on him). This in turn means people won't misunderstand and think Aleister just hits with High 1-C force immediately upon using Blasting Rod-plus if a verse match is done with Aleister and it caps him at his 9-B/6-B/5-B ratings, Blasting Rod won't be restricted since it only mentions its High 1-C tiering and doesn't elaborate it can also be used when he's a 9-B/6-B/5-B.
XDragnoir said:
Nor is her body stated to be naturally 5B in durability, much less AP, is it? Even Saints aren't 6B 100% of the time, they call upon their Saint power when fighting, even CRC who is a much better magician than Coronzon can't keep his physical stats constantly at 5B.
Click to expand...
... Eh. Coronzon is different than then peps but I ain't dying on this hill. I won't talk more regarding this.

Side-topic.

Shouldn't Aleister's gender section be changed a bit? To something like this?

Male in Original Body, Female as Aleis-tan | Female

IIRC, our translations pre-NT18 refer to Aleister as he/him while post-NT18 refer to Aleister as she/her and this stays the same when she is Alesizon, IIRC. Idk. I just figured it should be mentioned.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
You remember how IB had H1-C rating in his AP and SS rating and that sometimes Touma had a horrible mis-match cuz they thought Touma's H1-C AP/SS applies there until I removed it?

What I am trying to propose, giving Aleister a "higher" rating alongside his High 1-C rating, is meant to prevent that from happening to him.
Click to expand...
It's way too different because Touma's H1C AP wasn't actually H1C AP to begin with, it was hax that very occasionally could end up killing something. Aleister's BR gives actual AP and Durability, so it's actually possible to have him fighting a H1C if the OP specifies both are H1C (he did fight the MGs and his profile explains that to reach this tier there are "specific conditions", so unlike Touma it's actually doable).


FantaRin_The_First said:
The Higher rating here accounts for the times such as when 9-B!Aleister 10x-ed his sword to hit Touma or when 6-B!Aleister 10x-ed his spell to knock out Knight Leader (well, 100x, since Aleister straight up told him Blasting Rod power before using it on him). This in turn means people won't misunderstand and think Aleister just hits with High 1-C force immediately upon using Blasting Rod-plus if a verse match is done with Aleister and it caps him at his 9-B/6-B/5-B ratings, Blasting Rod won't be restricted since it only mentions its High 1-C tiering and doesn't elaborate it can also be used when he's a 9-B/6-B/5-B.
Click to expand...
I mean, "up to" already covers exactly that, it pretty much means "doesn't start at but can reach H1C".

Not only that but your point about it being restricted won't actually change by adding a higher, it would still be restricted in any fight that is trying to stay in a certain value, with or without the higher, we'd need to remove the H1C to avoid that.

Like, I don't have a problem with your proposal per si, I just think it changes nothing, but every single reason you're giving for it is pretty wrong IMO.
 
XDragnoir said:
It's way too different because Touma's H1C AP wasn't actually H1C AP to begin with, it was hax that very occasionally could end up killing something. Aleister's BR gives actual AP and Durability, so it's actually possible to have him fighting a H1C if the OP specifies both are H1C (he did fight the MGs and his profile explains that to reach this tier there are "specific conditions", so unlike Touma it's actually doable).



I mean, "up to" already covers exactly that, it pretty much means "doesn't start at but can reach H1C".

Not only that but your point about it being restricted won't actually change by adding a higher, it would still be restricted in any fight that is trying to stay in a certain value, with or without the higher, we'd need to remove the H1C to avoid that.

Like, I don't have a problem with your proposal per si, I just think it changes nothing, but every single reason you're giving for it is pretty wrong IMO.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree. We're pretty much stonewalling each other in Zon's CRT, so let's move on... or just wait for Zon to comment.

Am pretty much done here, though.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Maybe... This?

"9-B physically (Shouldn't be physically weaker than before)"
Click to expand...
@XDragnoir Is there a particular reason Coronzon's avatar wouldn't be physically weaker than Aleister (i.e 10-B)?

Edit: That's how I was going to list CRC as well

Actually Aleister's base dura is currently 9-B for 0 reason listed while his AP is 9-B only with a sword. Is that another reason to give both Aleister keys 10-B stats?
 
Last edited:
Churronzon said:
@XDragnoir Is there a particular reason Coronzon's avatar wouldn't be physically weaker than Aleister (i.e 10-B)?

Edit: That's how I was going to list CRC as well

Actually Aleister's base dura is currently 9-B for 0 reason listed while his AP is 9-B only with a sword. Is that another reason to give both Aleister keys 10-B stats?
Click to expand...
I think the dura part has to do with newton's 3rd law for not being damaged by hitting others so hard with his sword (could ne wrong tho).

If the above is true, we could go for a "at least 10B, possibly 9B" for his AP/SS or in case it's wrong just remove 9B from his physicals (it would still nnned to be there for ST tho)
 
XDragnoir said:
I think the dura part has to do with newton's 3rd law for not being damaged by hitting others so hard with his sword (could ne wrong tho).
Click to expand...
Seems you're right. Standards currently have physicals downscale from their ability to harm with a sword unless there's glaring evidence depicting a large disparity between them. Something along those lines.
Either way, it seems there's a precedence for Aleister's physicals to be rated as such so I'm not looking to change it.
XDragnoir said:
IIRC he only amped the range, but even if it did amp the AP we could either divide Touma's tier by 10
Click to expand...
Wall level is fine with me in both keys. It would just scale to a lower value (55.54 Kilojoules) since it was amplified 100 times, not 10.
“The Blasting...Rod!! Is that what did it!?”

“It amplifies the magic’s power to ten times what the target thinks it is.

[...]

He dodged based on the assumption that the length of the rapier would be ten times the
image he saw in his head, but a dark red hole was opened in his side.

“Gbh!?”

“When you assume the length will be extended ten times, the Blasting Rod uses that as
the basis for the ten times amplification. Thus, the blade is extended one hundred times.”
Click to expand...

The justification would be reworded to something like: Wall level (Could harm Kamijou Touma with his rapier that was amplified 100 times[Statistics Value 1][10])
 
Dereck03 said:
snip
Click to expand...
DarkDragonMedeus said:
snip
Click to expand...
hi, we're looking to add a wall level base rating without amplifications in the new key (comparable to his first key) and the current wall level value is being divided by 100 from this calc since Aleister was amped 100 times when the feat they're scaling off of was performed.

I'm also downgrading his base lifting strength without amps to Average Human level since the supporters I asked offsite and in the general discussion thread couldn't find nor remember the feat being used for the current Athletic Human rating.

Is that alright? It's the only changes since your last evaluations.
 
For goodness sakes, let's settle the other things in a CRT later since they are literally two things that Aleister typically doesn't use-Base AP w/o magic and LS w/o magic.


I'll apply the applied stuff in a bit. Probably. And we can settle the other stuff in the future. CRT has been in a deadlock for too long, anyays.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ShadeyD
Aleister Crowley vs Othinus
Replies
5
Views
632
Churronzon
Churronzon
ShadeyD
  • Locked
Aleister Crowley vs Goku
Replies
2
Views
353
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
FantaRin_The_First
[Toaru] Top Tier Revision
Replies
18
Views
2K
Churronzon
Churronzon
ShadeyD
Aleister Crowley vs Satoru Gojo
Replies
5
Views
1K
ShadeyD
ShadeyD
ShadeyD
Aleister Crowley vs Funny Valentine
Replies
8
Views
1K
ShadeyD
ShadeyD
Back
Top