The Worst vs The Best! Ikki Kurogane vs Sasuke Uchiha!

[Xmark12]

Three figures stand in an open field under a falling sun.

One is a young man in a white school uniform; his expression is that of utter seriousness. In his hand, a dark blade shines its tip towards his opponent: a ninja.

The one he's facing is another young man. He is dressed in a white long sleeved shirt underneath dark pants and a blue cloth secured under a purple rope. He stares at the swordsman with a grave and enraged expression.

Finally, the last man is surrounded by a black cloak with red clouds imprinted onto it, having a neutral expression throughout the whole confrontation. A rogue ninja.

"Move, you're in the way of my target!" The one being pointed at yells. His expression slowly grows irritated, seeing his target move away from his sights. The one who he dearly wishes to enact vengence upon.

"Sorry, but I can't allow you to harm this man, whatever he has done." The sword wielder states with a tone of finality, raising his blade.

"Then, if it has come to this..." The young ninja slowly revealed his own blade, "I'll make you move!"

The swordsman did not waver as he readied his guard,"...You can try."

The cloaked man had already left before the battle had begun in sparks.

The Worst Blazer

vs

The Prodigy Ninja

Rules:

• Base Ikki (Ittou Shura is available) vs Base Sasuke (Start of Shippuden. Genjutsu restricted).

• Speed equalized.

• In-character.

• Win by whatever they would do in-character to win.

• The battle starts at melee range.

• The match takes place in a flat grassy plane under a sunset.

• Other than those, Standard Battle Assumptions apply.

Music:

Neutral Battle Theme

Ikki's Battle Theme

Sasuke's Battle Theme

Score:

Ikki: 1

Sasuke: 6

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Xmark12]

Bump

 

[Dat_Dot]

Hmm a good match actually, I see Insight and Blade Steal roughly work same way as Sharingan based on Ikki's profile, both can predict and copy opponent's movement, I dunno which is better in melee but sasuke has advantage with his genjutsu, he also can use chidori and katon. That give him versatility advantage. hmm I leaning to sasuke for now.

 

[Xmark12]

0 - 1 - 0.

Sasuke has genjutsu at this point in the series? Kinda forgot, but the other points seem valid. Ikki has however been training in melee combat for most of his life, beating the likes of one of the best in his school on the first day, so that should be a gague of skill in melee combat right there in addition to his secret sword skills.

There's also Ittou Shura just in-case Ikki feels as if he's in a pinch, so there's that, but I'm counting your vote.

 

[Xmark12]

Bump

 

[Dat_Dot]

At this point of series (hebi sasuke), he use genjutsu. he use it during his fight with Orochimaru when Orochimaru starts imprisoning Sasuke within his own subconscious, but Sasuke reverses the process with Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique, imprisoning Orochimaru in Sasuke's subconscious instead.

 

[Xmark12]

Alrighty, I´ll count that, though start of Shippuden Sasuke = Hebi Sasuke? Just a question, since I´m using start of Shippuden Sasuke.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Sasuke cause of greater versatility they are around similar levels of skills in swordmanship ikki is probably slightly better and yes he could go itto shura and stuff but sasuke could also go CM2 and genjutsu would destroy ikki so my vote goes to sasuke

 

[Xmark12]

0 - 2 - 0. What are the abilities of CM, since it isn't on his profile, and isn't genjutsu able to be broken out of?

 

[Dat_Dot]

CM = Curse Mark

 

[Xmark12]

I know it's the Curse Mark, but what are its abilities and uses again?

 

[Dat_Dot]

well It increase sasuke's power, on second stage (CM2) he able to fly.

for better explanation here

 

[Xmark12]

It increases his power by how much though? From the scenes I can see he's still only around Building level with it. Even if we stretch it, CM would only be roughly around Ittou Shura in terms of power. Flight's a good advantage though, however shuriken/kunai spam wouldn't really help because of Ikki's battle precog, so I can't really see that many uses to flight other than to recover a bit from the battle.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Well it still an advantage nonetheless, and he still has other abilities to use. Hence why I'm voting for sasuke is because versatility.

 

[Xmark12]

Mhm, still counting your vote. We can wait till other people vote.

Also final question, what are some ways genjutsu be broken out of? I remember it can be broken.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Genjutusu can be broken if one realised they're under illusion and can control their chakra/energy flow to disrupted the caster's influence. And with enough pain (real pain not illusionary pain), people can also be freed from genjutsu.

 

[Xmark12]

Ah, then by verse equalization, Ikki should be able to break out of genjutsu. Ikki has mastered controlling his own body to the point where he can block his own senses, control his own heartbeat, hear his own bloodstream, understand every muscle in his body and control each one. By verse equalization, he should be able to control his chakra/energy flow too, since it's a part of him, and he's able to control his whole body with absolute precision.

Also, Sasuke at this point in the series wouldn't go for the killing blow because he doesn't want to be like his brother, so he'd most likely try to incapacitate or knock out Ikki while in genjutsu, but because of Ikki's stamina, and I quote: "Can shrug off broken bones and damaged organs if necessary; he was still able to fight against Toudou Touka despite being sick, poisoned, and starved for weeks, has enough mental endurance to stay conscious after having his Device, a physical manifestation of his soul, destroyed", he could most likely snap out of it if Sasuke did try to incapacitate Ikki while in genjutsu.

 

[Dat_Dot]

I see, fair enough.. I'm gonna wait for more opinion on the matter.

 

[Xmark12]

Bump

 

[Meosos]

Voting Sasuke for Shreks and Dots arguments

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Voting for Sasuke, FRA

 

[Xmark12]

0 - 4 - 0. For what which of Shreks and Dots arguments however? Some have been given counter arguments.

 

[Meosos]

Genjutsu, greater versatility and they seem to be at the same level in swordskill.

 

[Blanked]

^Nope. Ikki is more skilled of a swordsman considering he trained as one for much longer than Sasuke and was trained by great swordsman's plus he copied many other sword users battle style, while Sasuke learned on his own after certain age and is only "decent" cause of sharingan.

 

[Xmark12]

Genjutsu may also be countered by Ikki's masterful body control and willpower, and some of his abilities are able to be countered.

1: Throwing shurikens and kunais are countered by precognition and enhanced senses. Perfect Vision allows Ikki to even see his opponents' feelings and thoughts.

2: CM's boost in power would only be around Ittou Shura's boost in power, CM2's flight only allows Sasuke to recover from the battle for a short while, and if he attempts to throw shurikens and kunais, refer back to point 1.

Lightning and Fire jutsus would be helpful, but Ikki has dealt with both before IIRC.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

This fight could go either way. Sasuke has a snowball's chance in hell in CQC, since Ikki is not only significantly more skilled and experienced, he could also just copy Sasuke's fighting style and improve it. He actually has the versality advantage in CQC, with stuff like Shinkirou, Dokuga-no-Tachi, Blade Steal, Perfect Vision, Trackless Step, etc. Not to mention that at this point in the story, Ikki already knew at least 127 different sword styles. I know Sasuke can also copy fighting styles, but Ikki can do it faster, and Sasuke can only copy what he sees, while Ikki can learn an entire style down to it's super secret ultimate technique that no one even knew existed just from seeing someone use that style incorrectly a few times, while also improving that style. Ikki also has better precog. Also, he wouldn't give Sasuke the openings he needs to use jutsus in close combat.

But Sasuke is not limited to CQC, unlike Ikki. Hell, he doesn't even need to stick to direct combat, being a ninja and all. He could try to pull some shenanigans with smoke bombs and those explosive papers. It would stop working after a while, but it could create some openings for Sasuke to use some of his stronger jutsus. Then, the switching between lighting, flames, and then making clones and summoning stuff on the fly would seriously throw Ikki off, since at this point in the story he hasn't fought anyone with so many powers yet. He would probably be really confused at first trying to figure out what Sasuke's Blazer ability is before deciding that it's a waste of time and just focusing on the fight.

And then there's genjutsu. This is Sasuke's trump card in this fight. Ikki can break out of it, yes, but not instantly, and the time he's caught in it is the time Sasuke has to finish him. Once Ikki breaks out, getting him again would be very difficult, and depending on what genjutsu Sasuke uses, he might even get spooked and go straight for Ittou Shura, which is pretty much game over for Sasuke.

Overall, i give it to Ikki 6/10. Sasuke is a very tough opponent, but he doesn't have anything that Ikki hasn't dealt with before or can't come up with a counter for. Genjutsu is Sasuke's best shot, but i don't think if he could finish off Ikki in time, and it would most likely only work once.

 

[Xmark12]

1 - 4 - 0.

 

[YungManzi]

I don't really remember what Ikki could do in the anime as I haven't watched it since in aired. Ikki is definitley better than Sasuke at CQC, and almost certainly better than Sasuke at H2H. Sasuke has always used his CQC as more of a distraction and mainly used other things to finish opponents.


We don't really have any feats for begining Shippuden Sasuke, and it is heavily implied that Sasuke in the begining of Shippuden is just as strong as Hebi Sasuke. He can also use Kirin and spam Katons.

Second state cursed mark is supposed to make someone at least 10 times stronger(although I like going more off of feats than statements).


Genjutsu is a difficult thing to argue, I don't think Sasuke should be allowed to use genjutsu in this because if he is allowed to use genjutsu, it isn't a fair fight anymore. Unless Ikki has a feat of breaking out of an illusion, we can't say he can get out of Sasuke's genjutsu because in the world of Naruto, Sasuke is able to trap ninjas who are well versed in genjutsu and ninja who know they are inside of a genjutsu without them being able to do anything.


Ikki might be able to win because the battle starts at close range, but even then Sasuke can inflict damage and get space with Chidori Nagashi. Ikki might be able to tank it while still rushing Sasuke though....This is a pretty good fight.


Overall without genjutsu im going Sasuke 8/10 because of Chidori/Kirin and CM2 giving him flight advantage.

With genjutsu he has a much easier time.

 

[Xmark12]

1 - 5 - 0. Implied how so? If it's implied then you should bring it to the Content Revision Thread or the Discussion thread and see if you can get the upgrade.

When did he learn Kirin, because I don't think he'd have it at the beginning of Shippuden, and Ikki has faced fire based attacks before from Stella, and it can be argued that hers are even more powerful than Katons, since they burn at 3000*c and she can control it masterfully.

She was 8-A with her best abilities when fighting Ikki at the time, and he still won, just as a point of reference.

What are the feats/statements for "at least 10 times stronger" CM2?

Even if there were opponents who were well versed in genjutsu/knew they were in genjutsu, none that I can see had as masterful of body control as Ikki does, so there is still a good chance for Ikki to break out of the genjutsu.

 

[YungManzi]

In the begining of Shippuden, Sasuke raised up his hand in the same motion as when he used Kirin against Itachi, but Orochimaru stopped him.


Ikki's durability is placed at only building level, and Sasuke has casual builing level Katons. From what I remember of Ikki most of the time he won was because of his superiors speed, he never tanked a full on attack from someone like stella(correct me if i'm wrong, I just rewatched their fight to make sure).


As far as CM2 goes, their isn't really a feat for that, which is why I said "Second state cursed mark is SUPPOSED to make someone at least 10 times stronger(although I like going more off of feats than statements)"


It's also important to take note of the fact that this is a weaker version of the cursed mark than Sasuke has.


Masterful body control doesn't break you out of genjutsu when you have no knowlege of genjutsu to begin with, and sometimes that doesn't even help. Ikki has never experienced genjutsu before so we have no idea how he would react to it, but we can't make assumptions based on two things that have no relation to each other. Ikki doesn't even have any resistance against any sort of illusion(I don't think he does at least). We have examples of people who are specifically trained in genjutsu, still being useless against stronger genjutsu users(Kurenai). That's why I said it's better to just ban genjutsu from this arguement entirely, as it's unlikely Ikki could do anything against it.

 

[YungManzi]

These are the pics for the stuff I was talking about, i'm new to this site....

 

[Xmark12]

I'll believe you on the Kirin thing.

Ikki was able to resist attacks from Kuraudo (the dude who has a Bleach-type weapon), and didn't have Ittou Shura available at the time. Even before that battle he went up against Ayase, who injured him badly and still won. Essentially Ikki doesn't rely on speed all the time, but also his incredible willpower and stamina.

Even if that statement is true, it would still put Ittou Shura and it on par with each other, and going by feats, Sasuke's CM2 doesn't really show that it's "at least 10 times stronger".

Ikki essentially memorized his whole body, down to his bloodstream, senses, and spirituality. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he can control his body, especially his chakra, to escape it. In addition, Ikki had enough mental endurance to resist being sick, poisoned, and starved for weeks, as well as having enough mental endurance to stay conscious after his Device, the physical manifestation of his soul, destroyed.

I may still consider the restriction on genjutsu in this battle however, depending on if most people think it's too unbalanced in Sasuke's favor. If it's still too unbalanced somehow, we can allow Ikki to use Ittou Rasetsu.

 

[YungManzi]

You don't see the clouds in the scene, but that's pretty much all we see from Sasuke in the beginng. Begining of shippuden Sasuke could obviously use curse mark but he didn't use it at all until later on. Kirin is up in the air, the only thing that Sasuke was probably going to use at that point was Kirin....there's no other explaination for why Orochimaru stopped him and he raised his hand like that, he doesn't make that hand gesture for any other jutsu.


Ayase Only has small building level AP and I can't even find Kuraudo's profile(even in that fight he didn't really get hit directly). Ikki does have a lot of stamina and pain tolerance...I'll give him that.


I don't know if Sasuke's curse mark scales correctly, but he obviously gets a big boost in power and speed(So much that with only the first state of the curse mark he was able to speed blitz the sound ninja much easier than even Rock Lee when just a few chapters prior he was getting speed blitzed by Rock Lee, and this was a Rock Lee who had just opened the first gate).


I don't think any of the feats you listed directly relate to being put inside of an illusion. You can have greater chakra control than someone and you can even have more chakra than somone, but that doesn't defend against genjutsu. Being sick or poisoned doesn't = being in an illusion. Not even mental fortitude can protect against genjutsu as we have seen people like kakashi horribly affected by it and Guy completely avoiding it, so as not to lose.

"Ikki had enough mental endurance to resist being sick, poisoned, and starved for weeks, as well as having enough mental endurance to stay conscious after his Device, the physical manifestation of his soul, destroyed."

That's unquatifiable, we have no way to know how that would relate to an illusion, because none of that is an illusion.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

If Sasuke has Kirin and his genjutsu is good enough to affect people like Kurenai, then yeah, he wins this. Ikki's mana control is absolute shit, the only thing he can do to get out of high-tier genjutsu is using Ittou Shura and i'm not sure that would even work, and he has no counter for Kirin.

@Yung The Rakudai anime is bad, please don't use it as the base of your arguments. Ayase's profile is outdated. Also, Ikki has only won three fights in the entire series thanks to his speed, and he gets hurt pretty badly literally every time he fights someone important all the way until Volume 10. He wins most of his fights because he's incredibly smart, really good with a sword and stupidly hard to put down.

 

[Xmark12]

The only way Ikki could win is if he ends the battle swiftly, and since it's melee range, I can definitely see that happening. But, I can also see Sasuke pulling away somehow, prolonging the battle enough to pull a genjutsu.

How often did Sasuke use genjutsu in the beginning? Is it a sort of last resort, or a skill he uses often?

All in all however, is everyone in favor of restricting genjutsu? Or is it fair enough to keep it as is.

(I'll put whatever the general consensus is tomorrow, since I'm going to bed)

 

[YungManzi]

@NotEvenHuman

I was thinking about Ikki from the anime, if it's different in the LN....I don't know what to say.

Also if Rakudai's profiles being outdated is true, then we probably can't know how powerful Ikki is without statements from the LN. In the anime at least, Ikki never tanks an attack above building level+, however that might not be the case in the LN. Most of his fights in the anime consist of him deflecting and dodging his opponents attacks. Most injuries that he suffers look to be around wall level(I haven't seen calcs for them, but they can't be far above that).

This is definintely a close battle though, the only reason I am saying Sasuke wins is because of what he can do. If Sasuke decides to fly out of Ikki's range and spam Katons, there isn't much Ikki could do.

The biggest question is whether or not Sasuke can survive the begining of the fight and realize that he isn't going to win in CQC.

 

[Xmark12]

Bump, I'm going to assume that genjutsu is restricted because of general consensus.

 

[Pepper14832]

I think Sasuke can take this based on being more versitile (Jutsu wise)

Although Ikki's sword styles could give him trouble because Sasuke had trouble against someone like Killer Bee's sword style (Even his Sharigan couldn't keep up..)

So, Sasuke with High Diff.

 

[Xmark12]

1 - 6 - 0. One more for Sasuke unless someone can find an argument for Ikki or inconclusive.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Bump