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The universe DIDN'T shake... but there's still a feat to be had.

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CurrySenpai

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FC/OC VS Battles
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This post may be a bit long but I think it’s necessary and may hopefully spark a brand-new discussion.

As we all know the feat of Kirito shaking the universe has been very divisive in versus debating communities and even in the SAO community. I used to be on the side of those who believed it was real but after some mulling over and thinking I realized something… How the hell do you shake the universe or even space? The term “space” (if you believe the Yen Press translation) is already vague enough, and the Universe can’t exactly be shaken, at least in the context people were thinking of a literal quake. It’s just not a tierable feat, especially within SAO.

But that got me thinking, why did the Mecahdragons shake during the scene, why did Steeka think the stars were "rippling like water", and why does Reki’s WoG even say that people could feel the “shaking”? Well, my friends, it’s because we’ve been looking at this feat wrong. That’s right there was no shaking… it was simply a shockwave. Now before you discredit me I’m gonna go in-depth and try to explain my reasonings for this.

We know that a feat, or well, something happened when Kirito deflected the attack from the Abyssal Horror. Steeka claims to see the stars reflect like rippling water which is immediately followed up with the narrator saying that a shockwave roared past her (this is consistent in Yen Press).
WMl1IDEAfIv5BfBrytyaX2V1H7aGQkqrrxNkKgcLziUkqBWTuYDCOPC4bUrrpZcU7ZYf1_mdQ9TmjGCFgbjSAAFaiVro9cPzU6ap_uyPc_Zi_A3lI6GPB0HA3RsdmPk0e1dq183NLdtmxSdvRgt01rU

So there, we have proof a shockwave happened, but of course, I will have to address a debunk that comes from Reki’s Word of God.
hnVJgEnQhAjemXzF-GfDtsWyPe6ocLjSf47BFyNl7f-KFxeIR4pvPidrQUf7qzBYcHE0W3pMM1J5-MGum_v45FAU6-Ud9CuwL2uMd95pr0G3W9M_zZzxFNp4pNCupIuFjdcXwMoCrXBR7YS28kTkZfY

Reki himself states that there are no gas molecules in Underworld meaning that a shockwave cannot be formed. Normally someone would stop there but he immediately follows it up with this.
Tk4NY6g0tg1n-9YM-D-K7iBX9Z_7J5BZlGsPN6o2j6rlL98q5ehnCoAoQrxbddrMOAADvfRqS6y5zRKoUzhUnjqi6_Zj7lz-lo_iGz-8cDAqe312oNyGKAFeCiLZ3hBl8WwK5AHkobG79NNabrDUZ2Y

The real non MTL translation done on site can be found here and here, it's basically the same though

Reki is clearly talking about incarnation which we know makes things that are normally not possible happen and can even warp reality. So, it’s a shockwave created by incarnation which is very much supported by the source material.
image.png

Notice how in this scene Kirito deflects the AH’s attack with an Incarno-Barrier? Then when the shockwave is created by blocking the attack it causes the Incarnometer to go up to 20% ONLY when the shockwave passes by her Mechadragon? I think that’s a clear cut case of Incarnation causing a “rewriting event.”

Now the real question is how powerful is this feat, well we know for a fact that these shockwaves reached Cardina because they broke the Incarnometers in the Integrity Pilot’s office all at once which they mistook as a “mistaken signal last month” when the AH fight happened.
7Rb3QVFbhP2Om9HHHpDti8_rapZwEUH9Y-LV6oLxbnWx30IRQPi4NQL0jSxFs7q-BFQulLHkXrkTGoAMHMkUK595i5t8tGgQnHc-dTJSkUp8jdIYOXOHp0Nak3XflH8rdybZn0hVuCpedwkxqXzfD7o

(As supporting evidence that it was even powerful enough to do such a thing Kirito mentions that using Incarnation to simply do something such as destroy a door would set off every Incarnometer in Centoria so imagine what a Shockwave caused by incarnation and a clash between some of the verses strongest would be like.
iOEjdJ4fBeI-iqB8th6eZVnfig6Ij1cb7fQopSDlkYBltIogG4OKQYpsUfbHOD0MYUfJfVcYVImw-ALSOfnKmoROpcYoNnFsMqPgTpEapiuGpq6Yk3_vfJVAoRnFdn4ZAQjOPMREVmd9xZsa6THaGKw

The rest of the calc can be found here
And there you have it folks, I don’t know if the site will accept this but I presented all my evidence and a calc so I hope at the very least a discussion will come of this. Have a good day and peace!

Agree: @Scottycj256 @Marshadow29
Neutral: @RitsuØ1 @Joycap (suggested a possibly rating)
Disagree: @DMUA @Lonkitt @Excel616
(Addendum, I would be fine with a possibly.)
 
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My ass went Phoenix Wright and looked at it from another perspective. Now I just wait to see if I can survive the hitmen who have surely been called /j.
 
I know nothing about the verse but did the shockwave destroy everything between Admina and Cardina or was the shockwave FELT from between Admina and Cardina?

Because if it's the later the you shouldn't use the full 20 psi overpressure and instead use a lower value

20 is reserved for blastwaves that level concrete buildings
 
I know nothing about the verse but did the shockwave destroy everything between Admina and Cardina or was the shockwave FELT from between Admina and Cardina?

Because if it's the later the you shouldn't use the full 20 psi overpressure and instead use a lower value

20 is reserved for blastwaves that level concrete buildings
It is the latter, I didn’t know a lot about the over pressure stuff so I went with the number on the page. I’ll make a version with the number Scotty suggested.
it was felt between the two planets

personally id use like 10 psi
 
westballz-melee.gif


Neutral for now. May I suggest "[Current rating], possibly as high as [Suggested new rating]" for now?

I'll tap @Kaantantr on the shoulder too. He's sure to have a strong opinion on this.
 
Neutral for now. May I suggest "[Current rating], possibly as high as [Suggested new rating]" for now?

I'll tap @Kaantantr on the shoulder too. He's sure to have a strong opinion on this.
I'm fine with a possibly but I think it's more of a bandaid than anything. Ironically enough I don't think Kaantantr may have much issue with this. His original concerns come from the Shaking feat but this is something different entirely with a lot more proof backing it up.

I'd be fine with an At Most instead.
 
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Also could explain why not a lot of people knew about the AH fight (if you interpret it that way.) The entire universe shaking is a lot more severe than a shockwave passing by your planet.
 
Yeah. Reki's statement debunks anything going higher than T4, and with dissipation it's lower than even that.
 
Yeah. Reki's statement debunks anything going higher than T4, and with dissipation it's lower than even that.
This is probably where Alicization caps out unless Unital Ring does something absolutely bonkers (entirely possible)
 
Also yeah I think the mid end is best for this but I think that’s gonna be up to DMUA’s discretion or another CGM if he agrees due to dissipation
 
Right

The detail about the incarnometers being set off by a 9-B feat (or maybe into Tier 8 if its big enough, either way it's a door, not a particularly legendary item) more seems to just indicate that they're hypersensitive and of course they'd explode when Kirito is clashing in full force against one of the most powerful opponents in the setting. There's no actual indication that the planets themselves shook or that the shockwaves travelled outside general area like what we see in the anime.

That's really just case closed right there. It explicitly describes that space shook, so I dunno what's up with "actually, it's not shaking, it's a shockwave!" (Shockwaves are explicitly reality warping in the Underworld) or why that proves that said shockwave must have stretched to both planets at once because hypersensitive devices detected it and broke
 
Right

The detail about the incarnometers being set off by a 9-B feat (or maybe into Tier 8 if its big enough, either way it's a door, not a particularly legendary item) more seems to just indicate that they're hypersensitive and of course they'd explode when Kirito is clashing in full force against one of the most powerful opponents in the setting. There's no actual indication that the planets themselves shook or that the shockwaves travelled outside general area like what we see in the anime.
I mean my argument isn’t that the planets shook at all, the entire point is there was no shaking it was just a very large shockwave. And to be fair the anime omits a lot of the fight and monologues.
I think that the interpretation of the incarnometers being hypersensitive isn’t exactly correct. They mention that they are precision instruments sure but then immediately go on to say they should not have broken all at the same time, in the same way. I think this is a clear indicator of not only the nature of the devices but also of the scale that the shockwave(s) reached (multiple are caused/mentioned in the fight and all seem to happen after a use of incarnation)

That's really just case closed right there. It explicitly describes that space shook, so I dunno what's up with "actually, it's not shaking, it's a shockwave!" (Shockwaves are explicitly reality warping in the Underworld) or why that proves that said shockwave must have stretched to both planets at once because hypersensitive devices detected it and broke
Yes but isn’t it commonly agreed upon for this site that space shook or whatever is flowery language? Not to mention a powerful shockwave that she’s very close to was causing her entire dragoncraft to shake would understandably make it look like the stars were rippling on water and everything was shaking/“trembling”
 
also to be fair the anime is straight up dogshit and omits a lot of stuff period across basically every single season (not that the LN is very good either but the anime kinda just butchers any good will that the LN could have possibly had and should not take precedence whatsoever over the LN)
 
I mean my argument isn’t that the planets shook at all, the entire point is there was no shaking it was just a very large shockwave. And to be fair the anime omits a lot of the fight and monologues.
Then there's no genuine frame of reference for how far they went because it's put up against sensors that just have very high sensitivity and range for all the info we're given

They mention that they are precision instruments sure but then immediately go on to say they should not have broken all at the same time, in the same way. I think this is a clear indicator of not only the nature of the devices but also of the scale that the shockwave(s) reached (multiple are caused/mentioned in the fight and all seem to happen after a use of incarnation)
It really only says that there was a monumental influx of incarnation beyond anything in the verse before that point, since they didn't detect any actual physical quaking or pressure waves with other instruments, just the incarnation.

Yes but isn’t it commonly agreed upon for this site that space shook or whatever is flowery language? Not to mention a powerful shockwave that she’s very close to was causing her entire dragoncraft to shake would understandably make it look like the stars were rippling on water and everything was shaking/“trembling”
Not "Space Shook", that's pretty straightforward. It's stuff like "the entire universe shook" or the descriptors in the Gabriel fight. The space around them did in fact have rippled that distorted the light from the stars around them, that's described pretty straightforwardly
 
also to be fair the anime is straight up dogshit and omits a lot of stuff period across basically every single season (not that the LN is very good either but the anime kinda just butchers any good will that the LN could have possibly had and should not take precedence whatsoever over the LN)
It's a supplement to illustrate a lack of real proof, if the LN just said "oh yeah our seismographs also detected something weird along with the incarnation" and thus gave a straightforward contradiction like the random placement of the urine eyes, I'd be perfectly fine with using this. That does not occur.
 
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I cannot get over the fact you guys are calling them the “piss eyes” and “urine eyes”.
 
At this point imma just leave this to the mods, we’ve both presented our arguments (and to be fair I’d probably go with Joycap’s solution of a possibly that seems more feasible) but I’ll see what happens.
 
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