The Ultra Series Content Revision/Upgrade

[Mr.Cutlery]

Now as you can tell, said verse has been pretty empty and so I madee this thread. First off, knowing that one of the earlier ultras are already around 5-A (Specifically Ultraman Jack, whom I requested in the profile creation request thread). Not only that, like I said, he is also one of the weaker ultras out there, Ultraman (the first one) is superior compared to him. And again, Belial pretty much took one 3 of them at the same time, shouldn't that land him on a higher tier? This should scale to Zero as well, I mean, we already have a page for him so why not?


Also, note that most heisei ultras pretty much scales to Zero as well. Not to mention the powerups they received after each and every battle.


Even if the upgrades aren't that impressive for them they, surprisingly, have quite a lot of hax. One of them have time manipulation, Zero does as well but only in his final form. Ultraman (the character) has what could be Soul Manipulation via destroying it, in the final episode in one of the series' installments, he, with the help of only one other ultra, destroyed the spirit of an alien that had created a black hole after the planet where they were battling was destroyed, not to mention, in the first episode of the first series, he gave someone his life back(His host). Some of the monsters have decent, if not, monstrous hax. There's one that could do mind attacks. Another with Spatial Manipulation. There's also another one that could petrify an ultra(petrification counts as hax right?) as easily as he could wreck him.


More to come, just need to lurk more around the series' wiki and marathon most of them.


To start off exactly how much this would upgrade the verse, I would need permission to create at least 1 profile despite my lack of proper profile creation knowledge.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Bump, sorry, just needed input on this.


Also, one thing that will eventually be of concern is how most of their later tiers are to be achieved. Seeing as the ultras are said to increase their powers after each battle, it's also massive by the looks of it too. It's going to be terrible since seeing that large-scale feats are limited in the ultra series, with this, I'm proposing an extreme-scale powerscaling for almost every ultras here.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Being stronger than Planet level characters would just make you "At least" planet level, unless the said Planet level characters were on the higher end, or if the stronger character was horrifically stronger.

If you can source me some feats and scaling, I can make some profiles for the verse.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Right um, this is probably going to be extremely hard since most of the power-scaling stats or "sources"... There is none for the character in question which, I am terribly sorry for but, there is a video showing the battle between those 2 characters I've mentioned. Here it is, it's not much but it could give you an impression of what the monster is like, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjNzbZ9MhS0 Towards the end of the video, you'll see that after slicing away at the monster's innards and flying out of it, the monster spits out tens of planets which it, earlier in the episode, had absorbed/devoured. If one also looks back at their power status, most of them are pretty much equal to each other(the ultras, I mean).


And then there's also this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXb0_wZqlTI where, like you said, the stronger character is horrifically stronger than all of the land of light's inhabitants. I've also made a rough estimation on the land of light's size so that it's GBE could be found, IF you would like to look at it. I hope these will help, or at least, like I said before give an impression of what they're like. Or does this prove nothing at all?


On a side note, why don't we have that, red underline that shows if you've typed something wrong?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I know I shoulda've made another thread but nah, I'd like to keep the amount of threads I make minimal. So, bumping this thread up again and asking a question:


What exactly are the actual rationales for Ultraman Victory's stats. Back when the comments were still accessible, Method Man once said an ultraman he defeated blew up a false earth and another, absorbed the sun. Trust me, I've watched the entire series over and over again yet never saw or heard anything in regards to that statement. The only thing I heard could be useful, for wanking, the verse is that the energy source of the earth is the victorium which was stated to be the very particles that form the universe, most definitely just a statement which should not be taken seriously.


Also, after lurking in the ultra wiki for a while, I found a monster which was capable of doing the "China effect", sounds familiar? That's right, it's because Godzilla was also going to do that with his meltdown. I'll try to find more info about it but for now, that's all I have, also just read again the calc for Godzilla's possible outcome if he did meltdown, probably different though.


I would say more but that is all for today I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

I am afraid that I do not know the rationales for the Ultra Series statistics. They are quite old, and likely added before we started to clean up our requirements.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ugh... Well, thanks for replying anyway. I'll just keep looking for more feats.


Also, I did not plan this just to have you see this but, I may need permission to create some profiles if allowed. So far, I've only had two in mind. So bear with me if I makes mistakes on the profiles. I'll just ask the profile creation request thread first however.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you will need to fulfill basic standards of quality, with proper justifications for the statistics, or the profiles will likely be deleted.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, I got that. Though, it might take a while or should I try to post like, a draft here so you can be the judge of it or is that not allowed?

 

[Antvasima]

No. You will have to work on the page structure in a word editor, and then post it when you have finished.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, alright alright. I should stop bothering you and you, should stop replying just so to not trouble yourself anymore. Again, thank you for replying by the way.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Like before, I'd make another thread but prefer not to.

Here's another update to this, episode 19 of one of its series, we found that a red star is approaching earth thus, giving risk to its inhabitants. The defense force then decided that they would have to destroy it. And destroy it they did. Unknown to them is that, one of the planets that are risked in succeeding the mission, there was a survivor, it's pretty much confirmed it tanked the explosion and was radiated. Now this next part is our hero at the time named 80, defeated it. Though everyone received a happy ending anyway.

Well, that's it for now.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Quick question, how would absorbing the "life energy" of planets be accounted for?

Like, would it be the same as absorbing its mass-energy equivalent?

 

[Antvasima]

No, probably not. It sound rather diffuse and unquantifiable, given that "life energy" is mostly a fantasy concept.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I can't say I didn't expect this. But anyway, thanks. I'll try looking for other feats I guess.


Anyway, how 'bout that star explosion tanking I posted several days before? Just above my last post, obviously, is that acceptable? If not then, I wouldn't mind returning to scaling most showa ultras to Vacuumon then.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if they destroyed a star, that is presumably 4-C.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Pretty sure it's legit tho since it's... Y'know? Tokusatsu, everything goes there... I can link the episode if you want to... It's early on in the episode.


Also, I just posted a calc request that is needed for Vacuumon. I did a little assumption on it's final results about it with a calc I frequently do when I'm bored, it ain't official tho. Expecting to see a Low 4-C result, seeing as it's absorbed around 15 planets at relativistic speed (Around 7-8 times the planet's radius!)

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Another question, what would destroying or at least breaking away from a 4-dimensional space be? Higher dimensional manipulation?


Also, should I put my request somewhere else because most, if not, all of my requests are simply ignored. I know y'all are busy which is why I keep these things minimal.

 

[Antvasima]

It depends. Logically/geometrically, a 4-Dimensional feat should usually be High 3-A, but fiction is recurrently illogical in this regard, so if it is strongly contradicted by other feats, we tend to disregard it.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Huh, well alright then. The calc though? It's quite important, I already know the final results myself after messing around with what I got, but until it's officially calced, I'm not upgrading nothing.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Just to be sure, if, IF we use the mass of saturn anyway and add it with earth's mass(also, assuming if it could be multiplied by how much was on screen) and with it's speed of 7-8 earth radius and plugging those numbers in the ke calculator we get... a whopping 204 tenatons at least, which is, large star level... this is however only the results of me messing around with the numbers. So, that's it.


EDIT, star level, not large star level. 204 tenatons is still < than High 4-C

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So, what would this count as?

From this quote, "Tiga, you are the first ultraman to interfere with mankind's decision."

What was said is that, said ultraman interfered with something he shouldn't have, mankind's so-called destiny. So, what is this, acausality? Would such action be classified as that?

 

[Antvasima]

No, just as free will.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, ok then.

At least in the same episode alone, he demonstrates resistance towards both mind and soul manipulation. The villain's weapon early in the episode puts them, the victims, in a trance that made them forget any troubles and eventually corrupting them from within into wanting more. Which was its' plan, by making human fight each other till y'know, their final demise.

 

[DVD181]

As soon as I can find some good feats for the Ultra Series, I'll start calculating feats for it. I am not currently familiar with any of the Showa ultra series other than Taro.

I suppose that Ultraman Mebius Phoenix Brave Mode would be Star Level? This is based on him defeating Empera Seijin, who encased the sun in rock.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Huh, good to hear that.

And yes, I know you were referring to that but there is still a possibility that vacuumon alone could be star level as well. If you have time, calc the one I gave in the request thread. That ought to upgrade the verse greatly.

Not to mention, the wide variety of hax.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Lurked again in the ultra wiki and found something that is up to you guys to decide what it is.


In the Ultra Beam page, there is a line that stated, "All ultra beams had the effect of destroying atomic bonds". Yeah, pretty sure that's going to mean something but I'll leave it up to you guys.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So, somewhat important question;

If a creature is a manifestation of something, specifically of celestial bodies, like the sun. Would it be placed at the corresponding tier? I just need some light shed on this.

 

[Antvasima]

It probably depends from case to case. If the creature was stated to possess all of the power of a star, then possibly, although it is not a given that it can expend all of it in one go.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I read a line in the wiki saying he is indeed the manifestation of a sun of a solar system or, "Banderas was the sun of a solar system that bore his name". I think that further confirms that. If you could get someone who knows japanese, i can find the video of the episode, it's pretty long however, for an episode.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Anyway, last thing before I work on other ultraman profiles(permission required though), does the character qualify to be placed at the "discussed" tier or should he be placed as likely? After this, I'll be working on the other ultras as said.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wait, when vacuumon's page was created, one of the reasons for Its rating was that it exceeds even tens of planets in size. A very rough approximation shows its' length or width to be at least 24 planets. Which, after messing around with the numbers gave me a size of at least 100k km. That's bigger than even Jupiter. Would vacuumon be upgraded? Does a giant sentient cloud even be scaled with such methods? Maybe, because he does indeed have physical innards.

Also, don't miss the previous post.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe "Possibly Dwarf Star level" would be appropriate for Vacuumon?

"Possibly Star level" might be appropriate for Banderas.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Hmm, not likely? Weird... whatever, now I'm just gonna work on the profiles then, like said before, permission required. Maybe update vacuumon's page as well.

As for banderas, I'll just do what you suggested. Hold on, if I scale the ultra who fought him with this rank, at least 5-A for being comparable, if not superior to jack(who defeated vacuumon), possibly 4-C for having defeated banderas. Is that good?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Also, one more thing, it's the same scenario as seven's profile. Just needed a little clarification if the reasoning for the ranks are acceptable,

At least 5-A (Comparable to the ultra brothers), likely at least 4-C (Defeated a monster that could tank a star's explosion), likely higher.

Like before, don't miss the previous post.

Dang, I ask a lot don't I?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Here's something that should actually lift a weight off my chest, I however have no idea if I should use Ke calculation on Vacuumon's planet pull but it's the only thing I've relied on so...


Warning: Due to my lack of knowledge on proper calculating and scaling stuff, I only used the actual absorption scene so, bear with me if anything is far too messed up.


This "calc" will attempt to calculate the ke generated by Vacuumon's pull, assuming everyone has watched the video as well, I will also use 2 speeds for the 3 ends of the results, one is 7 full planet length in distance crossed in a second, to find out the speed, I assumed and used Earth's radius to find out the larger planet seen in the first pull scene.

Since it was full length and given that a radius is of course, only half of the planet I will try and use this method(Which looks stupid, mind you), 6371(Earth radius)*2(For already stated reason)*7 and we get 89194 km/s, converting it into m/s we get, 89,194,000 m/s, Relativistic speed.

The first two ends for the calc which are the low and mid ends, we will use Earth's mass and the moon's for the low-end and Earth's mass as well as Mars'.


Let's begin now shall we?

Earth's mass: 5.972x10^24

Moon's mass: 7.34767309x10^22

Mars' mass: 6.39x10^23


Later in the video we see two more frames showing the planet absorption and counting the number of planets and planetoids in those scenes, we get, 6 Earth-sized planets and 9 planetoids

This would require the multiplication of the mass(I think) by the respective numbers. With that done, we can simply use the KE calculator, plug those numbers in and thus we get these numbers, in joules: 1.4516245722042861e+41. Converting these numbers we then get it's equivalent in tons of tnt: 3.469465994752118e+31 or 34,694,659,947,521,180,000,000,000,000,000 tons, or a more preferred number, around 34.694 Tenatons/ Small Star Level for Low-End


And, using Mars' mass we get: 1.65408226086894e+41 joules/39.533 Tenatons for the Mid-End, also Small Star Level


Our High-End is probably the most farfetched as I would add Saturn's mass into our initial numbers, adding it with the initial 6 planets and 9 planetoids(Mars') we get: 2.425983338156294e+42 joules which is a whopping 579 Tenatons at the very least which is, Large Star Level, and is not likely let alone possibly be the actual results.


And now, using the second speed, which is 8 planets per second, using again this method, 6371*2*8 = 101936 km/s or 101,936,000 m/s, still safe in relativistic speed.


Low-end: 1.8959994412464145e+41 joules/ 45.315 Tenatons, small star level still.

Mid-End: 2.16043397337984e+41 joules/ 51.635 Tenatons, Small Star Level

High-End: 3.1686312988163844e+42 joules/ 757 Tenatons at least, Large Star Level


So, final results:

1st number,


Low-End: 1.4516245722042861e+41 joules or 34.694 Tenatons, Small Star Level (Definite bet)

Mid-End: 1.65408226086894e+41 joules or 39.533 Tenatons, Small Star Level still. (Safest bet)

High-End: 2.425983338156294e+42 joules or 579 Tenatons at least, Large Star Level (Unlikely)


2nd number,


Low-End: 1.8959994412464145e+41 joules/ 45.315 Tenatons (Definite)

Mid-End: 2.16043397337984e+41 joules/ 51.635 Tenatons (Safest)

High-End: 3.1686312988163844e+42 joules/ 757 Tenatons (Unlikely)


And that my friends, is the KE generated by Vacuumon when absorbing the planets.


Also, a little note, this is of course, NOT an official calc since if so I would've made a blog but I didn't. Even then, I might just copy-paste the entire thing in the blog so, nah...


One more hopefully final note, I'm sure the ke of the larger planets being pulled is possible to be calculated, in the first scenes of Vacuumon's reveal, it shows the planets still being pulled and what else? The larger planets as well as the planets used in this calc moving along, how it might be possible to do so? Idk, angsize scaling? That's gotta be hard but it could be do-able. For further clarification on how to find the larger planets' speed, we use said first scenes where, while the smaller planet on-screen zipped through, the others were slowly moving at what could be similar speeds. I might try though and add the results with what we currently have.

 

[Antvasima]

Tanking a star's explosion usually just means withstanding an extremely limited/dispersed part of the energy required to actually detonate it. It is not remotely of 4-C level.

 

[Antvasima]

You should post your calculation as a blog, and then ask here for an evaluation.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

1st post: Oh, okay then. Got it.

2nd post: Alright, I'll try to do that after I figure out how to calculate the KE of Saturn and the other larger planets. One more question though, is it possible to add up 2 results if the calc method is different?