The speed page

[DontTalk]

That they prepare before is a very possible scenario. That is for example most likely how Han Solo managed to land on the starkiller base at lightspeed in the last star wars movie.

Over long distances things like acceleration and deceleration also matter. It is in most calculations for large distance travel speed entirely possible that a character has accelerated half the way and decelerated half the way, so that it has a slow speed whenever close to a planet and a high speed when far away.

 

[Antvasima]

Should this be somehow incorporated into the speed page, and if so, do you have any suggestions?

 

[DontTalk]

Maybe LordXcano is willing to make an addition on his blog answering to the counter argument? That way the argumentation wouldn't be spread over two seperate pages, which is better for readability.

 

[Antvasima]

That is true.

 

[LordXcano]

That they prepare before is a very possible scenario. That is for example most likely how Han Solo managed to land on the starkiller base at lightspeed in the last star wars movie.
Over long distances things like acceleration and deceleration also matter. It is in most calculations for large distance travel speed entirely possible that a character has accelerated half the way and decelerated half the way, so that it has a slow speed whenever close to a planet and a high speed when far away.

This generally isn't what we see in most sci-fi. Most of the time a computer drops them out of hyperspace once they reach their destination. In your Han Solo example he does react since he turns off lightspeed while in-atmosphere. It's an outlier for Han Solo, but he does it.

As for things where computers don't exist and/or it's unaided it would fall under the same trope in esssence, it's just that story wise it wouldn't have justification.

We've seen the idea of common tropes like this being used before though to explain inconsistencies. While a series like DBZ may have explicit reasons as to why each hit doesn't destroy the planet, something like Marvel and DC don't. But we still apply the idea of AP =/= DC to them because it's just such a common thing in fiction.

So in the same manner while some sci-fi has an explicit reason why they can stop before they reach a planet without comparable reactions (they time it in advance/the computer does it/physics force them to drop out/etc.) we could still apply the same idea to things like Marvel despite people stopping at MFTL+ speeds just hundreds of km away from a planet without external aid.

 

[Antvasima]

@LordXcano So what specifically do you suggest?

 

[Gemmysaur]

@LordXcano:

So...

TL;DR, computer aid, prior preparation and downright outliers are a thing for MFTL+ flights, which is the reasoning why we don't consider it flight speed = reaction speed, right?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

My take is that we should assume Travel Speed and Combat Speed to be comparable, unless there is textual evidence for otherwise:

For instance:

Characters that seem to run no faster than ordinary athletes but in combat face of against Supersonic+ threats and dodge bullets.

Characters that travel through interplanetary distances but on combat are no more swifter than MHS+ characters, or characters from Verses that explictly separate Travel and Combat speed.

Characters whose combat speed is consistently depicted as far lesser than Travel Speed.

Otherwise, we shoud accept that they are equal, but I think they should be a case-by-case analysis.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew has a point.

I originally added the rule due to that Marvel and DC seem to keep flight speed and combat speed separate, but extending this to all fiction may have been a mistake that overcomplicates our work.

It may be better to reverse the rule, and instead assume that they are comparable unless shown othervise, rather than, as currently, assume than they are not the same unless proven othervise.

 

[Gemmysaur]

I can go with that, so long as it doesn't include Marvel and DC.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Marvel and DC would remain separate because they were the ones who separated it in the first place.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Matt's idea sounds pretty alright and can work. Seems like something that would be good rather than tiring for us to do something to the speed of the profiles here.

The idea of the the rule being set in would make sense for those of Marvel and DC or any verses like them. For others, it likely wouldn't work and we'd probably over-complicate ourselves if we just assume they were like the former two.

Matt's idea seems to benefit any of us on any and all instances of how we define speed feats being done for each verse. Otherwise, we can probably assume they'd be of the same speed then.

But i would like to hear and see what other think of Matt's idea here and what they think...

 

[Antvasima]

Since this is important, I have highlighted the thread again, for more staff input.

 

[Antvasima]

So, what do the rest of the staff think about reversing this rule? We generally haven't used it, due to being impractical, anyway.

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm, Matt's idea makes sense. Though, I feel like it should be noted that the separation can happen in other fictions, although we don't automatically assume this to be the case.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. We could simply mention that if the flight speed and combat speed are shown to be different for a certain fiction, we should also treat them as such.

 

[Antvasima]

Anybody else? I would prefer more staff input before applying such an important change.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, does anybody have good suggestions for how we should word the text regarding the new rule?

You can see here for the current wording.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ant. I know for a fact that Marvel keeps them apart, but other than that one scan of Supes, Bats, and WW, are we certain that DC does?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the DC characters tend to operate under similar superhero rules of writing, and generally do not demonstrate anywhere nearly comparable movement speeds and flight speeds as far as I am aware.

For example, the Green Lanterns do not have high movement speeds at all on their own, but are capable of vastly MFTL+ flight speeds.

 

[Promestein]

I'm fine with Matt's suggestion.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ant. Fair enough. I always thought GLs would have to use some sort of reaction speeds due to them flying via mind/will power and would have to consciously accelerate themselves, but that's probably improbable. I could think of something to word it as in the morning, but for now, kinda tired.

 

[Antvasima]

@Promestein Okay. Thank you for the reply.

@Howard Some help would be appreciated.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll be happy to. For one, we should probably keep our definitions of the different speeds, because some verses separate them (Marvel, Fate/Stay series iirc), and attack speed should always be different. A wording about how reaction, movement, flight, and combat speeds are interchangeable in most fictions, but there are a handful that don't. That's the most I can come up with for now. My apologies. I can get much more in the morning.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this is just about combat speed/reflexes possibly scaling from flight speed or running/travel speed. We still cannot assume that characters can run as swiftly as they can fight or fly.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Right. Right. My humble apologies, Ant. I'll fix that with a revised version.

 

[Antvasima]

My apologies that it took such time, but I have now attempted to edit the Speed page according to the above discussion. Please check over the edits, and tell me if I should change anything:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Speed&diff=885636&oldid=826226

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think it looks quite good.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same with Matt. Looks good to me as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.