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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The_Impress
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- marvel comics
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From what I recall it was supposed to be a form of stasis. After all wtf is the point of capital punishment if people can be revived? The issue was that the Pit got hijacked and nobody knew about it.
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Looked on his wiki page and no idea where the hell you got this from. He never had any interaction with the Pit.
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My bad, I was thinking of Arakko's Abyssal Prisons.
That said, he still got to become an esteemed member of Krakoa even though he only became one to mock his millions of victims.
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So has anybody else been reading the current Wonder Man series? I have found it sympathetic and enjoyable.
Also, this week's "What If?! Thor" issue finally pointed out that to Scandinavians "Knull" is an extremely silly name for a supervillain...
Also, this week's "What If?! Thor" issue finally pointed out that to Scandinavians "Knull" is an extremely silly name for a supervillain...
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What I'm currently reading is:
So far, I'm enjoying the first five, while the last two are just okay (to be fair, I don't have much affection/knowledge of the Iron Fist comics).
Edit: I just finished Deadly Hands of K'un-Lun... uhh
- The Amazing Spider-Man (2025)
- Spider-Versity
- Daredevil (2025)
- Captain America (2025)
- Avengers: Armageddon
- Civil War: Unmasked
- Deadly Hands of K'un-Lun
So far, I'm enjoying the first five, while the last two are just okay (to be fair, I don't have much affection/knowledge of the Iron Fist comics).
Edit: I just finished Deadly Hands of K'un-Lun... uhh
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MrKerf
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Next one should be... cosmologically weird. What If?-s are parallel Earths after all, and yet the next one changes the outcome of the Multiversal Event.
MrKerf
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It had the image in the end. What if Ultimate Universe survived in Secret Wars or something.What is the next one?
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The comic focuses more on Lin Lei ... though Danny Rand also makes an appearance.Wasn't Danny Rand turned into a zombie? I haven't been following, but if true, that seems unnecessarily disrespectful.
Speaking only of Danny:
Basically, Danny has been in the Underworld with Osiris. He's briefed on what's happening (Feng's destruction of the Seven Capitals and the deaths of the Immortal Weapons). Loki, playing both sides to further his own agenda, gets Osiris to send Danny to help by telling him that Feng was the avatar of Chiyou, an old enemy of Osiris, thus preventing her resurrection.
When he's about to lose, Chiyou possesses Feng. In the end, Danny helps Lin Lei defeat Chiyou without killing Feng (Lei's brother) and returns to the Underworld, where he creates a new Book of Iron Fist.
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now we have alternate Multiverses
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Thank you. I thought that Loki is only busy in Thor's comicbook at the moment, and the Asgardians are not remembered by the people on Earth anymore, but I suppose that the Iron Fist series happened earlier chronologically then.
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Not that weird considering there should only be one version of the OG Beyonder since he comes from Beyond the multiverse and yet there have been plenty of alt versions of the OG Secret Wars, including this Thor comic.
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I have scaled back what I intend to do with my 1-A thread. I will not be trying to change cosmology or Abstract scaling, this is mostly just evaluating who scales to full Abstracts. Thoughts?
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I think option 2 is best for pheonix, since galactus and Odin and Thanos having the power too kill phoenix is a bit unclear about whether or not it means phoenix hosts or the phoenix force, and Phoenix is explicitly comparable to death’s true form not just her m bodies, other then that I agree with pretty much everything in the blog
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I got a big kick out of that What If. I appreciated that the symbiote itself ended up becoming worthy because of Thor's positive influence.So has anybody else been reading the current Wonder Man series? I have found it sympathetic and enjoyable.
Also, this week's "What If?! Thor" issue finally pointed out that to Scandinavians "Knull" is an extremely silly name for a supervillain...
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Oooh I need to set aside time to read this
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That didn't happen either though? He was a part of Arakko's government body before Arakko even returned to the Earthly plane and the Earth Mutants had no say over who was in charge of Arakko at the time. And they quickly made a plan to get rid of him and replace him with someone else. The extent of Tarn's interaction with Krakoa was him trying to destroy it.
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I think that it makes better sense than what we currently have.
MrKerf
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Uhh… Explain it to me like I am stupid, cause I am kinda in the middle of 1-A profile making.
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Basically, abstracts like Death tend to use "avatars" known as M-bodies to interact with the greater multiverse.
1-A is being reserved for people who legitimately are basically abstracts.
MrKerf
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Sooo… even affecting abstracts directly or what they represent would give Low 1-A max?
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It'd be tied to their powers (aka Smurf Hax)/that was an M-Body/Outlier
MrKerf
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Depends on context which of the three.
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Yeah, basically there are the M-bodies that are the universal versions (as Ultima explained in the cosmology blog), but there are lesser M-bodies that these greater m-bodies create to interact with the universe.
As for 1-A itself, wanna bring up this from Ultima:
I sympathize with that sentiment, yeah. I myself think that people will sometimes radicalize 1-A's "inaccessibility" to high heavens, since, really, the inaccessibility in question is just supposed to be downstream from the definition of the tier: 1-A superiority is such that it can't be added up to by non-1-A + non-1-A, nor divided down into them, therefore, etc. Other formulations like "1-A and non-1-A are in different qualitative levels and the latter can't affect the former" and so on are just restating the same concept as the former description. There's not much else to it and I'd rather not mystify it. That's what it is. And this same simplicity is why I tend to be charitable towards potential anti-feats: If there's a way to reconcile it, I'm amenable to it as long as there are proper explanations, roughly same as how, if a character is incorporeal and another character punches it out, our takeaway will be that the latter dude has Non-Physical Interaction, rather than that the incorporeality in question simply doesn't grant immunity to physical attacks, or that the punch is an anti-feat for the incorporeality (The disanalogy being that, for 1-A, we require a mechanism, e.g. "power comes from the 1-A realm and such and such", and not just a showing, whereas we don't demand a mechanism for having NPI).
Sometimes, though, things will just run afoul of that definition regardless. Some cases are obvious, like "ohhh this thing is expanding and after a while it got so big that it broke through into the supposed 1-Aspace!", and others are less so, and it's not really possible to precisely lay out when one (the obvious) ends and the other (the not-so-obvious) begins. Typical sorites paradox. The latter cases are what give us headaches (Such as right now), and that'll keep happening, I'm afraid, since it's not possible to systematize things enough to cover every imaginable contingency. (Also why I think people should see things more holistically instead of fixating on a strict numbering of "feats vs anti-feats." Sometimes the anti-feats will be an occasion to think that the feats were never actually feats to begin with, or somesuch, or the feats will give you a context within which to judge the anti-feats, and so on)
As for 1-A itself, wanna bring up this from Ultima:
I sympathize with that sentiment, yeah. I myself think that people will sometimes radicalize 1-A's "inaccessibility" to high heavens, since, really, the inaccessibility in question is just supposed to be downstream from the definition of the tier: 1-A superiority is such that it can't be added up to by non-1-A + non-1-A, nor divided down into them, therefore, etc. Other formulations like "1-A and non-1-A are in different qualitative levels and the latter can't affect the former" and so on are just restating the same concept as the former description. There's not much else to it and I'd rather not mystify it. That's what it is. And this same simplicity is why I tend to be charitable towards potential anti-feats: If there's a way to reconcile it, I'm amenable to it as long as there are proper explanations, roughly same as how, if a character is incorporeal and another character punches it out, our takeaway will be that the latter dude has Non-Physical Interaction, rather than that the incorporeality in question simply doesn't grant immunity to physical attacks, or that the punch is an anti-feat for the incorporeality (The disanalogy being that, for 1-A, we require a mechanism, e.g. "power comes from the 1-A realm and such and such", and not just a showing, whereas we don't demand a mechanism for having NPI).
Sometimes, though, things will just run afoul of that definition regardless. Some cases are obvious, like "ohhh this thing is expanding and after a while it got so big that it broke through into the supposed 1-Aspace!", and others are less so, and it's not really possible to precisely lay out when one (the obvious) ends and the other (the not-so-obvious) begins. Typical sorites paradox. The latter cases are what give us headaches (Such as right now), and that'll keep happening, I'm afraid, since it's not possible to systematize things enough to cover every imaginable contingency. (Also why I think people should see things more holistically instead of fixating on a strict numbering of "feats vs anti-feats." Sometimes the anti-feats will be an occasion to think that the feats were never actually feats to begin with, or somesuch, or the feats will give you a context within which to judge the anti-feats, and so on)
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Well, it would depend on how they are affected and what kinds of feats they have outside of that. Take for example IG Thanos and Dormammu. IG Thanos is stated to be many levels of existence higher than the Abstracts, and all of them are merely threads in Thanos' totality. That would be 1-A. Meanwhile, Dormammu fought against Eternity in his realm. For the latter, Dormammu is stated to be weaker than Eternity, and Eternity was completely unaffected by his "destruction" at Dormammu's hands, so there is no reason to scale him to Eternity's full power. What characters are you making profiles for?
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I think that the biggest point is that "M-Body" ends up being used a shorthand term for any kind of manifestation, when it wasn't really the case, and then it began to conflate with unrelated things, which is how we get stuff like "Eternity's M-Body is Universal Eternity" and similar.
The biggest problem is that even if you were to separate things like "regional slides of a conceptual multiverse entity" from "the physical form they need to have to interact with the physical world created by Anthropomorpho", these things don't actually fit with each other neatly, as there are many times when such things are never implied to be used or even necessary, and it fluctuates alongside the scope of the characters with whatever is needed for the story.
I think that properly separating the things into what they actually are is the first step to organizing it, but I don't think it's even possible to come up with a way of fixing the inconsistencies.
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I’m fairly certain that eseseso knows what’s consistent for m bodies better than you do, and better than most marvel supporters for that matter, also they fit together fairly neatly considering the fact that there’s an obvious hierarchy(m bodies of universal eternity<universal eternity<multiversal/true eternity)
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And eseseso is one of our most knowledgeable people on marvel’s cosmology, and considering the fact that eseseso deals with marvel’s cosmology a lot more then executor does, I’m still fairly certain that eseseso knows what’s consistent for m bodies better then executor doesExecutor is likely one of our most intelligent staff members.
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My comment was only a opinion on the subject on the basis of the nature of inconsistencies on a fundamental level, that the very fact that the stories are inconsistent to some level due to how they were made might be a challenge.
If someone knows of the settings and ways of reconciling them as if they were a singular thing, that is unrelated to the inconsistency existing (If an inconsistency didn't exist, it wouldn't need an explanation to how they can coexist).
Although, I might say that even if an explanation is possible, I wouldn't call the settings "neatly consistent". This might be just for me, but I thought "neatly fitting" refers to fitting something in a mold perfectly, like they were made for each other, with no problems.
The way I see it, the very fact that the comics were written without considering those settings and many authors make alterations to the settings in multiple ways is already an indication of not "fitting neatly" or not being "neatly consistent".
Maybe the way the settings fit and their inconsistencies might not be a big problem to some, but I don't think it would be right to say those inconsistencies don't exist at all and that "knowing more of Marvel" invalidates commenting about them on a meta critical level (If anything, I would say the very fact we have comics that are a commentary on these inconsistencies is already proof that they exist).
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I obviously agree about that Marvel Comics is insanely inconsistent, and that our attempts to merge 65 years of "modern" history and around 50,000 comicbooks into a cohesive whole have likely misfired and produced too high statistics for many characters.
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Wasn’t trying to say you can’t comment on it at all, sorry if I made it sound that way, I just interpreted you’re original tone as you being 100% certain that m bodies aren’t ever portrayed as applying to the universal form to multiversal form dynamic, which I had been annoyed by because of reasons I stated in my previous comments
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What do you think should be done about it?
MrKerf
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Well, as far as I understand, affecting Multi-Eternity still should eield 1-A, if proven, so I am safe and good.
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Oh yeah this is only about Uni Abstracts. Nothing about Multi Abstracts will change
MrKerf
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Speaking of, any DC fans, since there's a Sentry v Superboy-Prime soon... I've noticed that we have a note for the later to not scale him to Darkest Knight, etc, etc. But did it ever change, and did he showed this level of power after all? He does seem to be able to shatter reality in thw latest comics at least.
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