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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Legion350 said:
Is there a blog or sandbox outlining the plans for skyfather & herald tiering?
Click to expand...
Like NaturalDestroyer said, my mystic cosmology CRT will downgrade Hell Lords and Skyfathers and anyone on their level to Low 1-A (in their realms), meanwhile Heralds will go back to their High 3-A peaks, though for Silver Surfer his peak might be Low 2-C
 
Eseseso said:
Like NaturalDestroyer said, my mystic cosmology CRT will downgrade Hell Lords and Skyfathers and anyone on their level to Low 1-A (in their realms), meanwhile Heralds will go back to their High 3-A peaks, though for Silver Surfer his peak might be Low 2-C
Click to expand...
Will Dormammu be affected by that as well?
 
Eseseso said:
Like NaturalDestroyer said, my mystic cosmology CRT will downgrade Hell Lords and Skyfathers and anyone on their level to Low 1-A (in their realms), meanwhile Heralds will go back to their High 3-A peaks, though for Silver Surfer his peak might be Low 2-C
Click to expand...
What about the astral planes?
 
Re5yh said:
What about the astral planes?
Click to expand...
The Astral Plane will still be 1-A, in fact the mystic cosmology blog will heavily expand on why it is 1-A (since admittedly I did a rather bare-bones job explaining it in the original CRT)
 
Eseseso said:
Like NaturalDestroyer said, my mystic cosmology CRT will downgrade Hell Lords and Skyfathers and anyone on their level to Low 1-A (in their realms), meanwhile Heralds will go back to their High 3-A peaks, though for Silver Surfer his peak might be Low 2-C
Click to expand...
The universe shaking feats which originally upgraded them to 3-C probably need to be looked over again as opposed to just slapping High 3-A on all their values. A lot of them here have some problems, like:

1. Thor shaking the universe while striking Galactus - We currently say that Galactus at his lowest tier even with his varies rating is Low 1-C, due to an even hungry Galactus being above Silver Surfer, and this is Galactus claiming to have felt pain for the first time in a millennium.
2. Thor shaking all the stars while trying to destroy the Godbomb - This is after the Gorr fight and they’re operating on skyfather levels here, the Godbomb is going to kill every god anyway (including all skyfathers) and it doesn’t make sense that Gorr would build it with only sub-god durability.
3. Jane shaking the universe - she does this by summoning the Motherstorm in Mjolnir which is skyfather level.
4. Thor shaking the universe against Ego with a Thermoblast - We rate Ego above a hungry Galactus here.
5. Thor making the very fabric of infinity tremble - he’s doing this by merging his godly lifeforce with Mjolnir, or the Godblast, which is not herald level.
6. Hercules’ statement of shaking the universe - Hercules says his power is ‘enough’ that he can shake the universe and is saying that Thor is an equal noble to take his place against Pluto (yes, the skyfather), in the issue this appears in. High heralds probably shouldn’t even scale to Hercules without exact instances either, given that even casually he can lift the universe (which is rated as 1-A now, Low 1-A after the mystic revisions).


So the blatant 3-C stuff might have to be brought back (e.g., Silver Surfer creating a galaxy-scale black hole), but some of that stuff will also have to be axed e.g. the Black Galaxy feat was explicitly targeting all organic matter, is compared to the Big Bang, and literally created a Celestial. If we can find blatant 2-C feats which don’t involve the mystic realms or Eternity itself that would be fine too.
 
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Osemere said:
The universe shaking feats which originally upgraded them to 3-C probably need to be looked over again as opposed to just slapping High 3-A on all their values. A lot of them here have some problems, like:

1. Thor shaking the universe while striking Galactus - We currently say that Galactus at his lowest tier even with his varies rating is Low 1-C, due to an even hungry Galactus being above Silver Surfer, and this is Galactus claiming to have felt pain for the first time in a millennium.
Click to expand...
Galactus at his lowest will either be High 3-A or Low 2-C
Osemere said:
2. Thor shaking all the stars while trying to destroy the Godbomb - This is after the Gorr fight and they’re operating on skyfather levels here, the Godbomb is going to kill every god anyway (including all skyfathers) and it doesn’t make sense that Gorr would build it with only sub-god durability.
3. Jane shaking the universe - she does this by summoning the Motherstorm in Mjolnir which is skyfather level.
Click to expand...
Mjolnir varies in power
Osemere said:
4. Thor shaking the universe against Ego with a Thermoblast - We rate Ego above a hungry Galactus here.
Click to expand...
Same as #1
Osemere said:
5. Thor making the very fabric of infinity tremble - he’s doing this by merging his godly lifeforce with Mjolnir, or the Godblast, which is not herald level.
Click to expand...
Mjolnir varies, but yeah this feat could be removed
Osemere said:
6. Hercules’ statement of shaking the universe - Hercules says his power is ‘enough’ that he can shake the universe and is saying that Thor is an equal noble to take his place against Pluto (yes, the skyfather), in the issue this appears in. High heralds probably shouldn’t even scale to Hercules without exact instances either, given that even casually he can lift the universe (which is rated as 1-A now, Low 1-A after the mystic revisions).
Click to expand...
Yeah Herc will likely scale to his own stuff, but my mystic CRT will moreso focus on undoing the Low 1-C with any separate upgrades probably being in another CRT
Osemere said:
So the blatant 3-C stuff might have to be brought back (e.g., Silver Surfer creating a galaxy-scale black hole), but some of that stuff will also have to be axed e.g. the Black Galaxy feat was explicitly targeting all organic matter, is compared to the Big Bang, and literally created a Celestial. If we can find blatant 2-C feats which don’t involve the mystic realms or Eternity itself that would be fine too.
Click to expand...
I mean if it was compared to the big bang then it'd arguably be another Low 2-C feat
 
Eseseso said:
Mjolnir varies in power
Click to expand...
It’s the Motherstorm doing this which is the storm Odin spent a long time fighting to magically imprison in Mjolnir. Also Mjolnir wasn’t high herald during the Godbomb issue.
Eseseso said:
I mean if it was compared to the big bang then it'd arguably be another Low 2-C feat
Click to expand...
It’s more of a hax thing anyway. It’s only targeting organic matter which doesn’t seem to result in a literal explosion.

As for your other comments, it really relies on where Ego & hungry Galactus would scale to, but Thor also uses the Godblast on Galactus the same issue (161) the universe-shaking narration is used, so I’m not sure he would be operating on starvation levels necessary to merit just a H3-A rating there. Also to note, that’s the issue we get Ego’s scaling from (Galactus calls his power ‘incalculable’, etc.)
 
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Osemere said:
The universe shaking feats which originally upgraded them to 3-C probably need to be looked over again as opposed to just slapping High 3-A on all their values. A lot of them here have some problems, like:

1. Thor shaking the universe while striking Galactus - We currently say that Galactus at his lowest tier even with his varies rating is Low 1-C, due to an even hungry Galactus being above Silver Surfer, and this is Galactus claiming to have felt pain for the first time in a millennium.
2. Thor shaking all the stars while trying to destroy the Godbomb - This is after the Gorr fight and they’re operating on skyfather levels here, the Godbomb is going to kill every god anyway (including all skyfathers) and it doesn’t make sense that Gorr would build it with only sub-god durability.
3. Jane shaking the universe - she does this by summoning the Motherstorm in Mjolnir which is skyfather level.
4. Thor shaking the universe against Ego with a Thermoblast - We rate Ego above a hungry Galactus here.
5. Thor making the very fabric of infinity tremble - he’s doing this by merging his godly lifeforce with Mjolnir, or the Godblast, which is not herald level.
6. Hercules’ statement of shaking the universe - Hercules says his power is ‘enough’ that he can shake the universe and is saying that Thor is an equal noble to take his place against Pluto (yes, the skyfather), in the issue this appears in. High heralds probably shouldn’t even scale to Hercules without exact instances either, given that even casually he can lift the universe (which is rated as 1-A now, Low 1-A after the mystic revisions).


So the blatant 3-C stuff might have to be brought back (e.g., Silver Surfer creating a galaxy-scale black hole), but some of that stuff will also have to be axed e.g. the Black Galaxy feat was explicitly targeting all organic matter, is compared to the Big Bang, and literally created a Celestial. If we can find blatant 2-C feats which don’t involve the mystic realms or Eternity itself that would be fine too.
Click to expand...
I'll just comment on this to mention that Heralds won't be downscaling from Thor in the new round of revisions. They'll need their own feats since there are too many examples of Thor massively holding back against Herald tiers and him blatantly demonstrating that he operates at Skyfather levels when fighting seriously
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
I'll just comment on this to mention that Heralds won't be downscaling from Thor in the new round of revisions. They'll need their own feats since there are too many examples of Thor massively holding back against Herald tiers and him blatantly demonstrating that he operates at Skyfather levels when fighting seriously.
Click to expand...
That’s sort of a roundabout way of getting at what I was saying, since the H3-A feats which are legitimate rely on scaling above herald-level anyway. Which isn’t to imply that they can’t be H3-A or even higher than that, it just means that they have to have their own feats for those things, and divorcing Thor and his mythos from the scaling-chain just makes that a lot harder.

Literal heralds (like, Galactus-heralds) should vary up to 1-A in any case since they have fragments of the power cosmic (1-A energy source) within them. The ‘herald class’ (like I’m assuming we’re categorizing this as ‘powerhouses a class above the Thing’ here) doesn’t really have a lot of feats we can draw from for a consistent high-level tier value unless we consider people like normal Norrin, Blue Marvel, A-Tier Iron Man armors, Ghost Rider (?), as all being the same level narratively
 
I read through new Superman/Spider-Man comicbook, and thought that it was quite good, except for that the Superboy Prime/Spider-Man story was cut off too abruptly before concluding, that I didn't really see the point of letting Jimmy Olsen be slaughtered by Carnage, and that Power Girl should have much higher standards than having sex with The Punisher, but it had some weird and unexpected content. I will give it that. 🙏
 
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Osemere said:
That’s sort of a roundabout way of getting at what I was saying, since the H3-A feats which are legitimate rely on scaling above herald-level anyway. Which isn’t to imply that they can’t be H3-A or even higher than that, it just means that they have to have their own feats for those things, and divorcing Thor and his mythos from the scaling-chain just makes that a lot harder.

Literal heralds (like, Galactus-heralds) should vary up to 1-A in any case since they have fragments of the power cosmic (1-A energy source) within them. The ‘herald class’ (like I’m assuming we’re categorizing this as ‘powerhouses a class above the Thing’ here) doesn’t really have a lot of feats we can draw from for a consistent high-level tier value unless we consider people like normal Norrin, Blue Marvel, A-Tier Iron Man armors, Ghost Rider (?), as all being the same level narratively
Click to expand...
Good point about Herald variability. I do have some pretty solid feats for SS in my database
 
Antvasima said:
I read through new Superman/Spider-Man comicbook, and thought that it was quite good, except for that the Superboy Prime/Spider-Man story was cut off too abruptly before concluding, that I didn't really see the point of letting Jimmy Olsen be slaughtered by Carnage, and that Power Girl should have much higher standards than having sex with The Punisher, but it had some weird and unexpected content. I will give it that. 🙏
Click to expand...
First story was such a delight. And it was great to see Spidey in the Jorge Jimenez artstyle.
 
I just finished reading the latest volume of Avengers (vol. 9), and I liked it.
For those who have read it, what's your opinion?
 
ProtectusInfinity's cosmology blog is good reading for those interested in the higher-tier stuff
vsbattles.fandom.com

Marvel Comics Cosmology (World Hierarchy)

The following is a page dedicated to outlining the cosmology of Marvel Comics, focused primarily on presenting each of its layers in an hierarchical fashion, as well as exploring other important details of the setting. For the purposes of these explanations, at least a cursory knowledge of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
ProtectusInfinity's cosmology blog is good reading for those interested in the higher-tier stuff
vsbattles.fandom.com

Marvel Comics Cosmology (World Hierarchy)

The following is a page dedicated to outlining the cosmology of Marvel Comics, focused primarily on presenting each of its layers in an hierarchical fashion, as well as exploring other important details of the setting. For the purposes of these explanations, at least a cursory knowledge of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
I need to clarify that I just archived Ultima's cosmology blog for personal reference in case significant changes are made to it, any original cosmology overhauls I will introduce come way later.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I need to clarify that I just archived Ultima's cosmology blog for personal reference in case significant changes are made to it, any original cosmology overhauls I will introduce come way later.
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping out. You can discuss this with me in a private discussion thread if you wish. 🙏
 
Unrelated, but I was just thinking about Crossover Earth and the Amalgam Universe. Would these universes be allowed profiles on this site? Like how would we apply the appearance count rule to them? I kinda want to do a readthrough of both and see if there are any feats worth scaling.
 
ObberGobb said:
Thoughts?
vsbattles.fandom.com

ObberGobb/Herald Planning Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Looks alright so far, but:

1. Why would all Heralds scale to High 3-A and not just 3-C? Most heralds don't have High 3-A feats or consistent scaling on that level.

2. Silver Surfer’s power, combined with Khatylis and Kismet, created an “infinite wormhole” that would have destroyed the entire dimensional plane, and all three of them proceed to combine into one entity in order to prevent said destruction, meaning that Silver Surfer's energy contributed to 1/3 of a Low 2-C feat.
 
By the way, Seth and Set for whatever reason are considered the same person on this wiki and share a profile, when that is just not the case.

The closest was Seth once pretending to be Set to steal his followers, so the "True Form" stuff from Set's profile should be axed ASAP.
 
ObberGobb said:
Thoughts?
vsbattles.fandom.com

ObberGobb/Herald Planning Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...

Proposals​

  1. All Heralds (everyone currently 3-C or Low 1-C) will scale to High 3-A.
Click to expand...
This is good.
  1. A select few Heralds will scale to 1-Aat peak. We can call them "God Herald" or something. Maybe still "High Heralds." The guidelines for this are as follows:
    1. They have 1-A feats themselves. Most notably, this would be Thor, Hercules, and Eric Masterson.
    2. They have feats or statements that can consistently downscale them from Skyfather Tiers
Click to expand...
    1. They are consistently and explicitly shown or stated to be at or above the level of a 1-A Herald when that character is at their peak
Click to expand...
That's why neither Eric or Hercules can be 1-A. Hercules have feat but still no Skyfather level while still weaker and Eric posseses small portion of Thor's power.
    1. It must make narrative sense for the character to be that high. For example, it is narratively logical for Thanos to scale to Thor's peak. But for someone like Count Nefaria on the other hand, despite being shown to be superior to Thor in his stories, him scaling to Thor's peak does not make narrative sense as he is just an earthbound villain.
Click to expand...
Well, Thor doesn't use his Inner Essence while fighting Thanos. Base Thor is comfortably on Skyfather level and Thanos struggles with Skyfather tiers like Odin. So he just downscale from Thor.
    1. Essentially, I propose that this grouping be for characters who are normally shown to be around Herald level, but at their peak have consistent Skyfather scaling too
Click to expand...
God Heralds can't be 1-A since they scale to Skyfather tier which is now Low 1-A.


Anyways, i can see High Heralds as Low 1-A if they downscale from Skyfather tier.
 
Excellence616 said:
God Heralds can't be 1-A since they scale to Skyfather tier which is now Low 1-A.
Click to expand...
I just mean that they will scale to Skyfathers. The upcoming Thor thread will apparently argue for Skyfathers scaling to 1-A characters, which I support. If that doesn't happen, High Heralds will just be Low 1-A.
Excellence616 said:
Well, Thor doesn't use his Inner Essence while fighting Thanos
Click to expand...
Inner life essence isn't really a thing, it was just a fanon term the wiki used to justify 1-A Thor. Like it's not really some separate force Thor taps into, it's just his powers
Excellence616 said:
That's why neither Eric or Hercules can be 1-A. Hercules have feat but still no Skyfather level while still weaker and Eric posseses small portion of Thor's power.
Click to expand...
Do you think that Eric's feat should be considered an outlier then? As for Hercules, there are feats downscaling him from Skyfathers. He stalemated Typhon, who is comparable to Zeus.
 
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Eseseso said:
Why would all Heralds scale to High 3-A and not just 3-C? Most heralds don't have High 3-A feats or consistent scaling on that level.
Click to expand...
I don't like the 3-C tier in general, there are way more High 3-A feats actually. Basically my point is that even though most Heralds don't outright have High 3-A feats, they are treated as being on the same level as characters who do. If there are Low 2-C feats though, that would be good
 
ObberGobb said:
Inner life essence isn't really a thing, it was just a fanon term the wiki used to justify 1-A Thor. Like it's not really some separate force Thor taps into, it's just his powers
Click to expand...
Well I don't see Thor using his Phoenix power against Thanos. I don't see Thor using the power from people's prayers to fight Thanos. All those peak 1-A display from Thor are something we can't scale to Heralds. It might be a fan made name but in verse has something close to that. Regardless, best save that for @NaturalDestroyer to handle any Thor scaling.
ObberGobb said:
I just mean that they will scale to Skyfathers. The upcoming Thor thread will apparently argue for Skyfathers scaling to 1-A characters, which I support. If that doesn't happen, High Heralds will just be Low 1-A.
Click to expand...
They should really. Thanos, Hercules, Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Sentry etc could scale
ObberGobb said:
Do you think that Eric's feat should be considered an outlier then? As for Hercules, there are feats downscaling him from Skyfathers. He stalemated Typhon, who is comparable to Zeus.
Click to expand...
If the feat is a 1-A feat, it should be an outlier.
 
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