The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[AcidSilver]

It feels like this Storm comic is just the latest in a decades long wank of Storm. "Storm is a mutant worshipped as a goddess." was the original. It was good. It did not need to be changed. Now she's a omega level mutant and a master strategist and a real goddess and was queen of Mars and is descended from African sorceresses and related to Agamotto and related to Oshtur and chosen by Eternity and beat the first ever storm god who is stronger than all the Abstracts.

Just constant additions that keep going higher and higher.

 

[Antvasima]

Tbh the Storm thing seems par for the course to me.

It's mandatory upon becoming a comic writer that you give your favorite character a tier 1 feat at some point. Doesn't need to be consistent or anything, but you gotta do it out of tradition. Ice Man, Black Panther, Daredevil, etc. They've all done it and then got right back to business.

And lest we forget The Deathstroke Moment™.

Like, I'd have to have Cassandra Cain outskill and defeat Michael Demiurgos. Or have Lizard overpower and consume a Beyonder variant and become the representative of animal savagery on the Cosmic Court, or something.
Until then I wouldn't be a true comic writer.

If that would somehow be the definition of a true comic writer, it definitely wouldn't a stamp of quality...

 

[Antvasima]

It feels like this Storm comic is just the latest in a decades long wank of Storm. "Storm is a mutant worshipped as a goddess." was the original. It was good. It did not need to be changed. Now she's a omega level mutant and a master strategist and a real goddess and was queen of Mars and is descended from African sorceresses and related to Agamotto and related to Oshtur and chosen by Eternity and beat the first ever storm god who is stronger than all the Abstracts.

Just constant additions that keep going higher and higher.

Well, "omega among omegas among omegas" if I remember the latest overstated narrative hype correctly.

Anyway, it completely oozes of absolute desperation and overcompensation power-tripping, and she is just written as pure 1-dimensional unlikeable absolute ego, conceit, and arrogance. She used to be written in a much more nuanced and sympathetic manner.

 

[Antvasima]

Hello there, heroes and villains, come and check my latest labor, a Howard the Duck revision!

"Villains"?

Anyway, I will check.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well, "omega among omegas among omegas" if I remember the latest overstated narrative hype correctly.

Anyway, it completely oozes of absolute desperation and overcompensation power-tripping, and she is just written as pure 1-dimensional unlikeable absolute ego, conceit, and arrogance. She used to be written in a much more nuanced and sympathetic manner.

Yeah
That's the sad thing about comics. The fact that a bad writer can come along and just ruin it.

The nice thing is, in the same vein, a good writer can then come along and swing it right back. Which is part of why I've gotten less and less attached to comic "continuity" as time has gone on.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

"Omega Among Omegas" and "God Eater" kinda neat epithets though

 

[MrKerf]

"Omega Among Omegas" and "God Eater" kinda neat epithets though

Truth it is, truth it is. Just pains that it applies to Storm of all people. Again.
If it were up to me, Omega Among Omegas would be either Legion, X Man, or Santa. And Santa is the best option ^^

 

[Antvasima]

I could live with Santa Claus being the "omega of omegas".

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, Storm doesn't read like a person anymore, just as a collection of power-mad absolutely egotistical marketing slogans.

 

[Antvasima]

Just to clarify: I did use to like Storm back when she was written as a strong, empathetic, kind, brave, and passionate woman, and would not mind if she was written on the same power level as Thor. And in addition, she is easily one of the most beautiful female superheroes in existence.

My problem is that Marvel is currently completely overdoing the empowered woman archetype to the point of caricature, so Storm has turned into a hollow assembly of clichéd slogans and enormous conceited arrogance and egotism, and is irrationally overpowered to the point that she can effortlessly beat up the Living Tribunal with her pinkie (without exaggeration) and is also suddenly enormously more overwhelmingly skilled (as informed abilities rather than actual competent show don't tell writing, but nevertheless) in several areas than she has ever been before.

Again, she does not seem to be a well-rounded likeable struggling humanised sympathetic character anymore, just a poorly written extreme urge for as supremely overwhelming power as possible to humiliatingly effortlessly crush absolutely everybody in her path. That is not a good way at all to fight against racism and misogynism, if that is the intention. It just turns the character and her stories insufferably annoying.

I greatly apologise if anybody has gotten an entirely wrong impression and taken offence here.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I will not be satisfied until Mary Jane Watson uses her Journalism degree to deduce cosmic truths that even the Watchers and Tribunal had no knowledge of.

 

[PandaCooler]

Wondering if Magik could do with an update. I noticed that basically all of her feats listed stop at the beginning of Bendis' X-men run. Which is over a decade ago.

Since then, her base self has had a lot of changes.

Spoiler: Her Sword now affects physical beings

Magik destroying Golems created by Sapna with her Sword

Magik slicing a Sentinel in Half with her Sword

Cutting this Gravity manipulating mutant's arm off

Cutting Monsters from Monster Island

Spoiler: Sensory ability

Before Magik had to chain scale off of a Limbo demon. But here we have an example of her actually using extrasensory ability (Specifically Soul Sense)

Spoiler: Overall power increase

Showing of Magik doing substantial damage to the juggernaut (He probably also needs a profile update since he's gotten stronger) while being mind controlled by an extradimensional God (Before she needed to be in Limbo to do something of this level)

We are also shown that Magik has gotten better at Martial Arts. Managing to beat Dani and Rahne (Who is using her mutant power) while blindfolded.

Blocking a teleported in Eruption with her Sword

Spoiler: Improved Teleportation

Magik already had incredibly impressive feats of teleporting forward and backwards through time as well as over intergalactic distances.

Most of her new feats are just things she technically could do before, but never actually attempted.

Tele-fragging

Teleporation based acceleration

Probably the most impressive feat she's done with teleportation recently however is teleporting The Peak interdimensionally

While it doesn't have an official size, we know that if the peak (which resides in orbit) fell on australia, it would wipe out all life on the continent.

Spoiler: Darkchylde

Illyana's dark side also saw a notable increase in power following the Phoenix 5

Absorbing Limbo into herself (She eventually reverts this)

Ripping the Crimson Gem from Juggernaut and destroying it (She went insane for a bit here.)

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I'm on Thor #484 in my every-main-Thor-appearance-ever readthrough (which will probably have a big impact on the wiki). And MAN, I'm thoroughly enjoying Roy Thomas' run that started in 1994. Thor's adventures with the Godpack are a blast.

 

[ObberGobb]

I'm on Thor #484 in my every-main-Thor-appearance-ever readthrough (which will probably have a big impact on the wiki). And MAN, I'm thoroughly enjoying Roy Thomas' run that started in 1994. Thor's adventures with the Godpack are a blast.

Yeah, I was surprised by how much I liked that run when I got there in my read-through. I was bracing myself for the 90s to be a huge slog and all the runs to be terrible, but I liked it. Godpack were fun, and High Evolutionary was a very interesting character (he is much more interesting as a True Neutral mad scientists kind of character than a pure villain imo).

 

[ObberGobb]

which will probably have a big impact on the wiki

Do you have any big changes planned so far?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Do you have any big changes planned so far?

Right now I'm still in the scan-collecting phase, but my plan is to take all of the Thor feats and scalings and average them out based on how much effort seems to have been exerted to accomplish feats within each tier. That'll allow us to figure out a bit more of a quantitative, holistic view of the Thor-tier characters.

Also, Kurse will definitely need some upgrades for his post-Beyonder amp key (although right now he's only got the one on the wiki). He effortlessly overpowered Hela in her own realm and consistently overpowers Thor

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Lol never mind turned out Kurse defeating Hela was an illusion created by Malekith

 

[ObberGobb]

Right now I'm still in the scan-collecting phase, but my plan is to take all of the Thor feats and scalings and average them out based on how much effort seems to have been exerted to accomplish feats within each tier. That'll allow us to figure out a bit more of a quantitative, holistic view of the Thor-tier characters.

Also, Kurse will definitely need some upgrades for his post-Beyonder amp key (although right now he's only got the one on the wiki). He effortlessly overpowered Hela in her own realm and consistently overpowers Thor

My thought on Thor is that we basically have no character scale to him, unless they are explicitly more powerful than him. Like right now we have Heralds scaling to Low 1-C based on Thor and Hercules, but I think that is very unreliable. I think Herald Tiers, around Thor's usual level, should scale to their own feats. Similarly, I don't think anybody should scale to feats from Hulk or Sentry, since their peaks are canonically vastly higher than characters who are generally comparable to them. Like if Thor or Hercules were to blow up a universe in one issue, we'd have no way of knowing what level they were operating at in relation to Heralds.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

My thought on Thor is that we basically have no character scale to him, unless they are explicitly more powerful than him. Like right now we have Heralds scaling to Low 1-C based on Thor and Hercules, but I think that is very unreliable. I think Herald Tiers, around Thor's usual level, should scale to their own feats. Similarly, I don't think anybody should scale to feats from Hulk or Sentry, since their peaks are canonically vastly higher than characters who are generally comparable to them. Like if Thor or Hercules were to blow up a universe in one issue, we'd have no way of knowing what level they were operating at in relation to Heralds.

I'm reaching a similar conclusion. It seems, so far, that when Thor fights at full capacity he's vastly above Herald tiers

 

[Antvasima]

I'm reaching a similar conclusion. It seems, so far, that when Thor fights at full capacity he's vastly above Herald tiers

Yes, agreed, but that has led to problems recently, as the Marvel writers with an obsession with showing how much "better" their favourite characters are in relation to Thor have gone to ridiculous narrative-/setting-/story-breaking extremes, while treating Thor in extremely disrespectful ways in conjunction.

 

[GeneralSol16]

while treating Thor in extremely disrespectful ways in conjunction.

I'm so FUKiNG tired of that, holy man, my third (or second?) Marvel carácter ever is being trashed by everyone just because he's the new "look at me, I'm really powerful / dangerous" punching bag.
Thor's supposed to be Earth's greatest line of defense, the strongest non wildcard of the Avengers and Earth in general, but everytime he's shown, it's just to get his ass kicked by a random.

And this isn't even limited to just the Cómics, the movies, series, games, etc love to show how Thor's a freaking useless and stupid character, the MCU being the worst of the worst in that regard.

I really hope we see Thor as this figure of "You know why I know we'll win? Because I heard it. The Thunder" once again, in every version of him, or at least in the 616 and MCU.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it is because he is Norse, and a blonde, blue-eyed former viking in addition to that, so many of the writers very illogically retroactively associate Thor with Nazism and male patriarchy in their heads, and as such largely want to belittle and humiliate him as much as possible, even though the Nordic countries were not responsible for Nazism, the viking warriors were largely very unsympathetic, typically for the era they lived in, but not Nazis, and a modern average representative Nordic person would be a leftist social-democrat, and we have some of the greatest gender equality on this planet.

Al Ewing has at least begun to characterise Thor as a Norse leftist in his recent stories, so that is something, but Thor had to be murdered by his karma houdini sibling, and depowered into the weakest Marvel superhero before that happened, while Storm was empowered to become second in power only to The One Above All at the same time, which seems too convenient to be a coincidence.

 

[GeneralSol16]

while Storm was empowered to become second in power only to The One Above All

excuse me what

 

[Antvasima]

Not an exaggeration. Storm is suddenly now so powerful that she effortlessly beat Hadad, a Mesopotamian storm deity who was illogically wanked to the degree that he could almost effortlessly destroy the entire cosmic abstract hierarchy and was only stopped by The One Above All directly fighting him.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Not an exaggeration. Storm is suddenly now so powerful that she effortlessly beat Hadad, a Mesopotamian storm deity who was illogically wanked to the degree that he could almost effortlessly destroy the entire cosmic abstract hierarchy and was only stopped by The One Above All directly fighting him.

And they say Carol was getting Mary sued, lmao.

 

[Antvasima]

I called Storm a Mary Suggs, since she has devolved into a very hollow power madness fantasy, which is considerably worse than just being a Mary Sue.

 

[Excellence616]

My thought on Thor is that we basically have no character scale to him, unless they are explicitly more powerful than him. Like right now we have Heralds scaling to Low 1-C based on Thor and Hercules, but I think that is very unreliable. I think Herald Tiers, around Thor's usual level, should scale to their own feats. Similarly, I don't think anybody should scale to feats from Hulk or Sentry, since their peaks are canonically vastly higher than characters who are generally comparable to them. Like if Thor or Hercules were to blow up a universe in one issue, we'd have no way of knowing what level they were operating at in relation to Heralds.

Could we treat Godblast as AP but will not scale to other stats excluding Thor?

I'm reaching a similar conclusion. It seems, so far, that when Thor fights at full capacity he's vastly above Herald tiers

I came to same conclusion. Characters that varies and Thor should be treated differently and also with the multiple tier on most herald profiles. The should have just one or two tier.

 

[PandaCooler]

Juggernaut probably could do with a rework for his modern incarnation. Considering his source of power isn't the exact same any more.

 

[ObberGobb]

Could we treat Godblast as AP but will not scale to other stats excluding Thor?

The problem is that Thor has a bunch of 1-A peak feats even without including Godblast

 

[Excellence616]

The problem is that Thor has a bunch of 1-A peak feats even without including Godblast

Yeah, i know but other Thors use Godblast (Jane, Eric, etc) and should the Godblast scale universally to their other stats?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Yeah, i know but other Thors use Godblast (Jane, Eric, etc) and should the Godblast scale universally to their other stats?

I'd say no. The Godblast is typically treated as a "last-resort, requires a bit of prep time, ultimate attack" to take down foes that Thor can't defeat physically using his regular stats or abilities. That being said, peak Thor is 1-A anyway pretty consistently

 

[Excellence616]

I'd say no. The Godblast is typically treated as a "last-resort, requires a bit of prep time, ultimate attack" to take down foes that Thor can't defeat physically using his regular stats or abilities. That being said, peak Thor is 1-A anyway pretty consistently

The answer i needed. There is hope for Low 1-C heralds without scaling from Odinson Thor.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

The answer i needed. There is hope for Low 1-C heralds without scaling from Odinson Thor.

Silver Surfer and Beta Ray Bill are probably the way to go there

 

[Eseseso]

The answer i needed. There is hope for Low 1-C heralds without scaling from Odinson Thor.

Personally I'd prefer 2-A...

 

[Excellence616]

Personally I'd prefer 2-A...

Yeah. I meant there is still hope for high tier for Low 1-C even if they would be downgrade

 

[Excellence616]

Silver Surfer and Beta Ray Bill are probably the way to go there

For sure.

 

[That_moron2]

Personally I'd prefer 2-A...

Everyone and their mother will be High 1-A+. You will accept the gift that the One Above All has given you and you will enjoy it

 

[Antvasima]

Everyone and their mother will be High 1-A+.

Gah.

 

[ObberGobb]

Yeah. I meant there is still hope for high tier for Low 1-C even if they would be downgrade

What kinds of Low 1-C feats are there for non-god characters? Honestly I was wondering if normal Herald Tiers would gave to drop back to 3-C or even Tier 4.

 

[MrKerf]

And when everyone is High 1-A+…