The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Antvasima]

Well, I was being a bit sarcastic by repeating my phrasing, but yes, Jonathan Hickman, Bill Willingham, Brian Pulido, and Garth Ennis are probably high contenders for being among the most genuinely evil writers in comics.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, to switch to the lighter topic of the new "Mortal Thor" comicbook, on second thought I doubt that Al Ewing would make Loki's shapeshifted disguise (or disguises) so blatantly obvious that it is Lucci/Lucky. It may be that Lucci is the previously seen identical looking construct by Utgard-Loki, whereas Loki has transformed into Thor's/Sigurd's new female neighbour, or that we have yet to see who they will transform into. We will see.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Well, the morally awful Jonathan Hickman established awful new designs for the cosmic entities in his characteristically awful and also cancelled G.O.D.S. series.

Which makes it kinda funny everybody at Marvel insists on referencing that series whenever possible.

 

[ObberGobb]

Anyway, to switch to the lighter topic of the new "Mortal Thor" comicbook, on second thought I doubt that Al Ewing would make Loki's shapeshifted disguise (or disguises) so blatantly obvious that it is Lucci/Lucky. It may be that Lucci is the previously seen identical looking construct by Utgard-Loki, whereas Loki has transformed into Thor's/Sigurd's new female neighbour, or that we have yet to see who they will transform into. We will see.

It would be a pretty cool twist to have Lucky actually be Utgard-Loki instead of Asa-Loki. Like, I will have seen it coming if they go that route, but I'd still be really interested to see what they do with it. Utgard-Loki is an interesting character to me since he doesn't seem outright evil or even inherently hostile to Thor, he seems like Thor and Loki have actually interested him, so I'm curious what he's going to do going forward. This new story is really reminding me of the beginning of the JMS run, where Thor has to find the souls of all his friends in mortals, and the Lost Gods arc.

On a related note, I got caught up on Thor yesterday, and I'm wondering about the scaling. So Thor has defeated two Elder Gods now, the hooded guy and the minotaur guy whose names I both forgot. Where do Elder Gods scale? I don't think "base" All-Father Thor should necessarily scale, since it seems that Thor functionally got an amp to defeat both of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Thor didn't defeat and kill the minotaur god, Loki did by using the Eternity Mask. Thor did defeat and kill the hooded elder god though, and he also killed Toranos.

 

[Da3ggman]

I like Thor

 

[Antvasima]

So do I, when he isn't extremely mischaracterised as a massive jerk by writers like Donny Cates.

 

[AcidSilver]

Well, I was being a bit sarcastic by repeating my phrasing, but yes, Jonathan Hickman, Bill Willingham, Brian Pulido, and Garth Ennis are probably high contenders for being among the most genuinely evil writers in comics.

Dunno how you can call Hickman morally awful when his biggest work, Secret Wars, ends on such an optimistic note. He's not all sunshine and rainbows but he's absolutely nothing like Ennis. He doesn't portray the bad things that the characters do as good or just. The Illuminati have always thought that they knew better. Xavier and Magneto have always thought that they knew better. Hickman just shows what the natural endpoint of these kinds of world views are without someone or something to temper them.

Time Runs Out and the Krakoa era are critiques of these characters who have decided to place themselves in leadership positions and decide the fate of millions solely because they think they know better and never once think that others could do it better. It's looking at the idea that we just assume that these people should be in charge just because they're superheroes and not because they're actually qualified to be leading us.

 

[Tyranno223]

Thor didn't defeat and kill the minotaur god

He did defeat Kemer, but yeah, he didn't kill him.

 

[Antvasima]

Dunno how you can call Hickman morally awful when his biggest work, Secret Wars, ends on such an optimistic note. He's not all sunshine and rainbows but he's absolutely nothing like Ennis. He doesn't portray the bad things that the characters do as good or just. The Illuminati have always thought that they knew better. Xavier and Magneto have always thought that they knew better. Hickman just shows what the natural endpoint of these kinds of world views are without someone or something to temper them.

Time Runs Out and the Krakoa era are critiques of these characters who have decided to place themselves in leadership positions and decide the fate of millions solely because they think they know better and never once think that others could do it better. It's looking at the idea that we just assume that these people should be in charge just because they're superheroes and not because they're actually qualified to be leading us.

Hickman has written plenty of thoroughly gratuitiously amoral and existentially nihilistic works such as "God is Dead", and I read the Krakoa saga as a stamp of approval for all of the thoroughly villainous acts and attitudes that the X-Men displayed at the time, and "Time Runs Out" basically read like a walking banner for genocidal survivalist values.

Basically, virtually everything Hickman writes seems to come across as extremely far right hollow existentially and morally nihilistic cosmic horror, hopelessness, calculated cruelty, sadism, anti-idealism, and survivalism as a kind of gleefull intellectual thought experiment of pure morbid degradation, with no regard for all the harm that his type of writing and ideals causes to humanity.

 

[AcidSilver]

Hickman has written plenty of thoroughly gratuitiously amoral and existentially nihilistic works such as "God is Dead", and I read the Krakoa saga as a stamp of approval for all of the thoroughly villainous acts and attitudes that the X-Men displayed at the time, and "Time Runs Out" basically read like a walking banner for genocidal survivalist values.

Basically, virtually everything Hickman writes seems to come across as extremely far right hollow existentially and morally nihilistic cosmic horror, hopelessness, calculated cruelty, sadism, anti-idealism, and survivalism as a kind of gleefull intellectual thought experiment of pure morbid degradation, with no regard for all the harm that his type of writing and ideals causes to humanity.

Gonna be real man, this just reads like you seeing what you want to see. You've decided that his writing his amoral and nihilistic and so you're working backwards from that to justify that belief about his writing. Legit, this is the kind of thing that Superboy Prime was saying about the Post-Crisis era of DC where because things weren't as pure as they used to be that means that they were automatically evil and horrible with no room for nuance. I especially don't get you how can see Time Runs Out as a banner for those kinds of values when the storyline constantly hammers home how the actions the Illuminati are taking are horrible and that all the justifications that they give themselves are just to make themselves feel better about the horrible things they're doing. The arc literally ends with Reed admitting that he should've just come to his friends and family from the beginning.

Namor's arc is even about him thinking that he's the big man making the tough choices that nobody else can but when he has to face people who actually are the kind of person he thinks he is he can't handle it and realizes his folly because the Cabal are all horrible people who revel in the destruction that they cause.

You even bring up God is Dead but Hickman only cowrote the first six issues before leaving the book.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.

A summary of the thematic contents of Hickman's various works:

God Is Dead: As far as I have understood, Hickman came up with the road-map thematics and conceptual premises for "God is Dead", and then left other writers to carry out most of them, as is a common praxis for him. Ultraviolent might-makes-right focused divine wars and mass deaths with no concern for other sentient lifeforms, gleefull complete metaphysical despair and horror, with ridiculously extreme distortion of the Hindu deities and likely others. It deliberately turns faith, cosmological harmony, decency, and hope into Mortal Kombat, and portrays divinity itself as inherently monstrous, violent, and devoid of ethical value. This series wallows in extreme nihilism, bleakness, cruelty, and amorality.

Krakoa X-Men: Ultranationalist tribalist isolationism and hyper-militarism, ethnic supremacism (Such as stating "You have new gods now" to the United Nations), amnesty and extreme influence (through the Quiet Council) for absolutely conscience-deprived, casually mass-murdering, sadistic, and genocidally supremacist villains, and bloodsports to the death for enthusiastic entertainment. Spinoffs like X-Force make extreme and gratuitious state violence and "necessary evils" into routine.

Incursions (New Avengers/Time Runs Out): Systematic genocide of other populated universes for the sake of realpolitik-style survivalism. In Infinity, empires literally surrender to the strongest (the Builders) until public executions flip the board. The text repeatedly stages "greater good" genocide and surrender to power. This is textbook "the ends justify the means" and "might makes right".

Secret Wars: A continuation of the former. A survival of the most ruthless setting through absolute tyrannical dominion, with moral frameworks already ground to dust by the Incursions.

The Nightly News: The premise centers on a cult waging targeted assassinations and bombings against journalists. The book literalises anti-media nihilism via vigilante mass-murder and a manipulative mastermind.

Pax Romana: The Vatican builds a time-travel army to rewrite history for "the greater good", explicitly marrying faith, empire, and holy war through cold calculations.

Transhuman: A mock-documentary of biotech competitors escalating an enhancement arms race; corporate (lack of) ethics become a punchline as bodies are instrumentalised.

A Red Mass for Mars: A "Dark Superman" dystopia with coups, looming apocalypse, and bleak, anti-idealistic posture.

The Red Wing: Time-war fighter-pilots framed by fatalistic, closed-loop cosmology, as a chilling, deterministic war story.

Secret: Corporate espionage where good guys and bad guys blur into murder-for-hire and shadow governance, in a world that treats loyalty and life as expendable.

The Manhattan Projects: Mad-science alternate history where famous scientists commit atrocities such as ritual killings, vivisections, and conquest, with clinical detachment. The series leans into gleeful amorality.

East of West: An American apocalypse run by allied countries and the Four Horsemen. The indoctrination of Babylon and the mass-slaughter politics support a scorched, anti-idealistic vision.

The Dying and the Dead: Opens on a wedding-day massacre commissioned by inhuman elites. The series is about bargaining with death and trading lives as currency.

The Black Monday Murders: Finance as literal blood-magic: banking cartels worship Mammon and practice blood sacrifice. "Money = power" is rendered as occult, predatory law.

Decorum: A galactic crime saga headlined by "the most polite assassin", a mentorship in etiquette for efficient killing. Professionalised violence, not heroism, is the code.

S.H.I.E.L.D.: Isaac Newton as a ruthless secret-history autocrat who tortured Nostradamus, and murdered rivals, vs. da Vinci's competing vision. Progress framed as a power struggle where the ends justify the means.

Secret Warriors: Nick Fury’s black-ops war treats human assets as disposable and portrays the United States military-industrial complex and its so-called "realpolitik" as a laudable force, despite its enormous continuous crimes against humanity and systematic supremacist agenda of enforcing ridiculously extreme inequality across this world, with a leftist organisation called Leviathan as the main enemy.

Fantastic Four: It is initiated as a severely distorted dystopian creed against leftist idealism, while taking a stand for far right oligarchs and systematic inequality, and later uses technocratic/strongman logic through the council of Reeds, but this work is still far less extreme than virtually anything else Hickman has written.

Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates: Hickman's Reed Richards devolves into a full supremacist as "the Maker", leading the hyper-evolved Children of Tomorrow to subjugate gods and nations, which is might makes right by design.

Ultimate Invasion: The Maker engineers a world without heroes by preventing their origins, installing technocratic control as the default state, with authoritarian social engineering as first principle.

G.O.D.S.: Dystopian cosmic chess between bureaucratic orders ("The-Powers-That-Be" vs. "The-Natural-Order-of-Things") led by morally detached operatives, again emphasising existential horror, systems and power over compassion, conscience, hope, decency, and ethics.

So some common threads seem to be:

Tyrannical technocrats and secret orders deciding everything without concerns for other people.

Ritualised or industrialised violence in service of "order" or "progress".

Protagonists who default to control, containment, and sacrifice of lives.

Worlds that reward "might makes right", cunning, systematic cruelty, and social Darwinian "realpolitik" utility over kindness, compassion, solidarity, and collaboration.

Generally intense anti-idealistic social and cosmic horror where sentient lives are portrayed as insignicant.

Overall moral nihilism and extreme existential cynicism.

So at this point I have the impression that Hickman's perspectives and overall mindscape are memetically infectious mind-cancer. A coldly analytical, clinically fatalistic, seemingly extremely far-right nihilistic, intellect without any true constructive wisdom, kindness, hope, faith, compassion, empathy, conscience, ethics, or humanity, who obsessively infects as many other people as possible, including young and highly impressionable ones, with his thoroughly hopeless, destructive, amoral, and desensitising social Darwinian outlooks. Thereby helping to drown this world in darkness rather than lifting it upwards.

 

[MrKerf]

I myself read only Krakoa Era, Time Runs Out/Secret Wars, and G.O.D.S. I don't share Ant's overall sentiments, nor do I judge the author by his works. Still, as I said before, Hickman is a very "logical" author as opposed to someone like DeMatteis, who I consider more "empathetic".

The main problem I have, and I think Ant too, if you strip away his bias, is the fact that Hickman's works are trying to show things as grey, and not criticizing enough things, which are objectively terrible. I think I even read an interview of his once, where he said exactly that. "Are X-Men villains now? Well, up for readers to decide." Or something along those lines.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I obviously perceive it far more as Hickman showing things as extreme black rather than grey.

And yes, he definitely portrayed the Krakoa X-Men as extreme villains, and his inability to clearly see that doesn't at all speak well of his ethics or sense of social responsibility.

 

[AcidSilver]

Well, I obviously perceive it far more as Hickman showing things as extreme black rather than grey.

And yes, he definitely portrayed the Krakoa X-Men as extreme villains, and his inability to clearly see that doesn't at all speak well of his ethics or sense of social responsibility.

Do you think writing about bad characters means that the writer shares the same beliefs and ideals as those characters? You notice that he’s deliberately writing the X-Men as being in the wrong during Krakoa so how do you come to the conclusion that he supports those views?

 

[AcidSilver]

I myself read only Krakoa Era, Time Runs Out/Secret Wars, and G.O.D.S. I don't share Ant's overall sentiments, nor do I judge the author by his works. Still, as I said before, Hickman is a very "logical" author as opposed to someone like DeMatteis, who I consider more "empathetic".

The main problem I have, and I think Ant too, if you strip away his bias, is the fact that Hickman's works are trying to show things as grey, and not criticizing enough things, which are objectively terrible. I think I even read an interview of his once, where he said exactly that. "Are X-Men villains now? Well, up for readers to decide." Or something along those lines.

I think that’s a valid answer to the question that Hickman is asked. Because at the end of the day what the Mutants were doing was traditional nation building. It’s a critique of irl governments and society doing similar actions and having similar beliefs but through the lens of superheroes and supervillains.

Hickman is basically saying that simply calling them heroes or villains is up to someone’s personal view of the world. For example, you can criticize the X-Men recruiting people like Sinister but you also have to admit that people like him have been welcomed into countries irl because they’re seen as useful. So what the X-Men were doing was par for the course.

 

[Antvasima]

Do you think writing about bad characters means that the writer shares the same beliefs and ideals as those characters? You notice that he’s deliberately writing the X-Men as being in the wrong during Krakoa so how do you come to the conclusion that he supports those views?

Because there is a strong consistency in the perspectives in his writing, and he almost constantly has amorality, cruelty, social Darwinism, cosmic horror, despair, and so onwards overwhelmingly conquer any positive values. There are only indepth studies in absolute evil, not any true counterforce of good with solid arguments and values for being good standing against it. For example, the Justice League analogue, "The Great Society" during "Time Runs Out" was easily overwhelmed by the sheer despair, darkness, and hopelessness of the situation, and complained about that the public demanded them to be "more good than it is possible to be".

So yes, my strong impression is that Hickman, and plenty of other mainstream North American, British, and Japanese comicbook writers over the years, objectively matter of fact qualify as being gleefully extremely evil, and much worse, they together obsessively and systematically infect a large part of their readers with that evil.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that’s a valid answer to the question that Hickman is asked. Because at the end of the day what the Mutants were doing was traditional nation building. It’s a critique of irl governments and society doing similar actions and having similar beliefs but through the lens of superheroes and supervillains.

Hickman is basically saying that simply calling them heroes or villains is up to someone’s personal view of the world. For example, you can criticize the X-Men recruiting people like Sinister but you also have to admit that people like him have been welcomed into countries irl because they’re seen as useful. So what the X-Men were doing was par for the course.

Sinister, Apocalypse, Mystique, and their ilk are far more satanically evil than the majority of real life hardcore Nazis, so I do not consider the fact that, for example, the modern United States and Australia were built based on principles of colonialist genocide against far more spiritually advanced, wise, and decent indiginous people, as well as systematic racist supremacist slavery in the former case, to be any moral excuses. One extreme moral wrong does not excuse another in any way whatsoever.

 

[SamanPatou]

Tremble folks, tier 1 Howard the Duck is real

 

[Excellence616]

Tremble folks, tier 1 Howard the Duck is real

Every one in Marvel is Tier 1.

 

[Antvasima]

Every one in Marvel is Tier 1.

Ha!

 

[Progrev228]

As i remember Howard survive fall in multiversal void that should be same level or above Therea which exist above infinite hierarchy of universes

 

[SamanPatou]

My boy was gifted an Ultimate Nullifier by the Man-Thing, a weapon that was said to have been used in the Microverse to threaten and repel Galactus himself. Howard can use and has used it, so he could technically erase base/hungry Galactus-level beings.

As i remember Howard survive fall in multiversal void that should be same level or above Therea which exist above infinite hierarchy of universes

He did fall through the Nexus of All Realities, but that's just dimensional travel, not durability.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.

A summary of the thematic contents of Hickman's various works:

God Is Dead: As far as I have understood, Hickman came up with the road-map thematics and conceptual premises for "God is Dead", and then left other writers to carry out most of them, as is a common praxis for him. Ultraviolent might-makes-right focused divine wars and mass deaths with no concern for other sentient lifeforms, gleefull complete metaphysical despair and horror, with ridiculously extreme distortion of the Hindu deities and likely others. It deliberately turns faith, cosmological harmony, decency, and hope into Mortal Kombat, and portrays divinity itself as inherently monstrous, violent, and devoid of ethical value. This series wallows in extreme nihilism, bleakness, cruelty, and amorality.

Krakoa: Ultranationalist tribalist isolationism and hyper-militarism, ethnic supremacism (Such as stating "You have new gods now" to the United Nations), amnesty and extreme influence (through the Quiet Council) for absolutely conscience-deprived, casually mass-murdering, sadistic, and genocidally supremacist villains, and bloodsports to the death for enthusiastic entertainment. Spinoffs like X-Force make extreme and gratuitious state violence and "necessary evils" into routine.

Incursions (New Avengers/Time Runs Out): Systematic genocide of other populated universes for the sake of realpolitik-style survivalism. In Infinity, empires literally surrender to the strongest (the Builders) until public executions flip the board. The text repeatedly stages "greater good" genocide and surrender to power. This is textbook "the ends justify the means" and "might makes right".

Secret Wars: A continuation of the former. A survival of the most ruthless setting through absolute tyrannical dominion, with moral frameworks already ground to dust by the Incursions.

The Nightly News: The premise centers on a cult waging targeted assassinations and bombings against journalists. The book literalises anti-media nihilism via vigilante mass-murder and a manipulative mastermind.

Pax Romana: The Vatican builds a time-travel army to rewrite history for "the greater good", explicitly marrying faith, empire, and holy war through cold calculations.

Transhuman: A mock-documentary of biotech competitors escalating an enhancement arms race; corporate (lack of) ethics become a punchline as bodies are instrumentalised.

A Red Mass for Mars: A "Dark Superman" dystopia with coups, looming apocalypse, and bleak, anti-idealistic posture.

The Red Wing: Time-war fighter-pilots framed by fatalistic, closed-loop cosmology, as a chilling, deterministic war story.

Secret: Corporate espionage where good guys and bad guys blur into murder-for-hire and shadow governance, in a world that treats loyalty and life as expendable.

The Manhattan Projects: Mad-science alternate history where famous scientists commit atrocities such as ritual killings, vivisections, and conquest, with clinical detachment. The series leans into gleeful amorality.

East of West: An American apocalypse run by allied countries and the Four Horsemen. The indoctrination of Babylon and the mass-slaughter politics support a scorched, anti-idealistic vision.

The Dying and the Dead: Opens on a wedding-day massacre commissioned by inhuman elites. The series is about bargaining with death and trading lives as currency.

The Black Monday Murders: Finance as literal blood-magic: banking cartels worship Mammon and practice blood sacrifice. "Money = power" is rendered as occult, predatory law.

Decorum: A galactic crime saga headlined by "the most polite assassin", a mentorship in etiquette for efficient killing. Professionalised violence, not heroism, is the code.

S.H.I.E.L.D.: Isaac Newton as a ruthless secret-history autocrat who tortured Nostradamus, and murdered rivals, vs. da Vinci's competing vision. Progress framed as a power struggle where the ends justify the means.

Secret Warriors: Nick Fury’s black-ops war treats human assets as disposable and portrays the United States military-industrial complex and its so-called "realpolitik" as a laudable force, despite its enormous continuous crimes against humanity and systematic supremacist agenda of enforcing ridiculously extreme inequality across this world, with a leftist organisation called Leviathan as the main enemy.

Fantastic Four: It is initiated as a severely distorted dystopian creed against leftist idealism, while taking a stand for far right oligarchs and systematic inequality, and later uses technocratic/strongman logic through the council of Reeds, but this work is still far less extreme than virtually anything else Hickman has written.

Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates: Hickman's Reed Richards devolves into a full supremacist as "the Maker", leading the hyper-evolved Children of Tomorrow to subjugate gods and nations, which is might makes right by design.

Ultimate Invasion: The Maker engineers a world without heroes by preventing their origins, installing technocratic control as the default state, with authoritarian social engineering as first principle.

G.O.D.S.: Dystopian cosmic chess between bureaucratic orders ("The-Powers-That-Be" vs. "The-Natural-Order-of-Things") led by morally detached operatives, again emphasising existential horror, systems and power over compassion, conscience, hope, decency, and ethics.

So some common threads seem to be:

Tyrannical technocrats and secret orders deciding everything without concerns for other people.

Ritualised or industrialised violence in service of "order" or "progress".

Protagonists who default to control, containment, and sacrifice of lives.

Worlds that reward "might makes right", cunning, systematic cruelty, and social Darwinian "realpolitik" utility over kindness, compassion, solidarity, and collaboration.

Generally intense anti-idealistic social and cosmic horror where sentient lives are portrayed as insignicant.

Overall moral nihilism and extreme existential cynicism.

So at this point I have the impression that Hickman's perspectives and overall mindscape are memetically infectious mind-cancer. A coldly analytical, clinically fatalistic, seemingly extremely far-right nihilistic, intellect without any true constructive wisdom, kindness, hope, faith, compassion, empathy, conscience, ethics, or humanity, who obsessively infects as many other people as possible, including young and highly impressionable ones, with his thoroughly hopeless, destructive, amoral, and desensitising social Darwinian outlooks. Thereby helping to drown this world in darkness rather than lifting it upwards.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts on Ultimate Spider-Man? I know that one's REALLY popular, but with it ending soon and you having made your views VERY clear, I was curious about your take on it. Sorry if that's a bother or anything.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem at all.

I have only read parts of it yet, but it seems considerably less hopelessly grimdark edgelord-style gleefully callous and amoral than Hickman's other works, outside of certain parts of his Fantastic Four run, so either he is trying extremely hard to restrain himself, or he is gradually beginning to develop a functional conscience lately.

 

[Progrev228]

It's crazy to imagine that Steve Gerber works has influenced writers like Al Ewing and J.M. DeMatteis but also guy like Garth Ennis...

 

[ObberGobb]

I have started a read-through of Avengers from issue #1. Mostly doing it just for fun, but along the way I have been taking notes on statements and such indicating the relative power of the Avengers, specifically "heavy hitters." So far, I'm thinking that we heavily underrate classic Iron Man

Also, these stories are surprisingly enjoyable. The characterizations and stories are pretty fun, and I like seeing the origins of many Avengers characters and the development of the team.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I have started a read-through of Avengers from issue #1. Mostly doing it just for fun, but along the way I have been taking notes on statements and such indicating the relative power of the Avengers, specifically "heavy hitters." So far, I'm thinking that we heavily underrate classic Iron Man

Also, these stories are surprisingly enjoyable. The characterizations and stories are pretty fun, and I like seeing the origins of many Avengers characters and the development of the team.

Pages for more avengers teams?

 

[Muteki616]

Every one in Marvel is Tier 1.

Everyone who matters in Marvel do have a type of magic to them.
So you may not be wrong.

 

[AcidSilver]

 

[MrKerf]

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I forgive Tom Brevoort for chewing me out once back when I was far more brainwashed and mentally unstable than currently, as I likely deserved it, but he has a tendency of setting handbook character statistics that often at best seem knee-jerk "I just felt like it" ill-considered, and at worst heavily biased. For example, Thor has a "2" intelligence rating despite his enormously great amount of strategic battle experience and formerly being one of his world's best medical doctors, a "6" in durability despite withstanding blasts from Celestials, and a "4" in fighting skill, despite his many millennia of fighting experience, to compare with the Executioner at "6".

Correct handbook statistics for Thor would likely be:

Intelligence: 4

Strength: 7

Speed: 7

Durability: 7

Energy Projection: 6 (7 with the Odinforce)

Fighting skills: 6

That said, Brevoort is probably the main reason for that Marvel Comics writers can at all keep track of the continuity of previous stories so they do not contradict each other continuously outside of characterisation and power levels, so he is indispensable for the company.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Some seemingly valid evaluations of Brevoort's use and defence of artificial intelligence.

When Marvel Comics' Tom Brevoort Opened The Pandora's Box Of A.I

When Marvel Comics' Tom Brevoort Opened The Pandora's Box Of A.I

bleedingcool.com

 

[MrKerf]

Hmm. Some seemingly valid evaluations of Brevoort's use and defence of artificial intelligence.

When Marvel Comics' Tom Brevoort Opened The Pandora's Box Of A.I

When Marvel Comics' Tom Brevoort Opened The Pandora's Box Of A.I

bleedingcool.com

"Artificial intelligence is like fire. It's a discovery, not an invention".

The only real problem everyone seems to have is that AI is being taught on a data that was illegally obtained. Which is a stain, an unfortunate one, and one that needs amending. And obviously the fact that it at best encourages some creativity by iterating old ideas, not creating new ones.

Still, I like to think that humanity will enter a new, more beautiful era, once AI starts to truly think.

 

[AthelChan]

peep this out

 

[Adr10K]

Shouldn't Steve Rogers 616 have a key With Mjolnir? He has more than two appearances with it, it's extremely popular, it's important to the character hisgory, and his MCU counterpart has it even when he only used it for less than 10 combined minutes in the whole franchise.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shouldn't Steve Rogers 616 have a key With Mjolnir? He has more than two appearances with it, it's extremely popular, it's important to the character hisgory, and his MCU counterpart has it even when he only used it for less than 10 combined minutes in the whole franchise.

Something something Comic Book Standards are BS.

 

[Tomfer]

Shouldn't Steve Rogers 616 have a key With Mjolnir?

Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics

There are several massive problems with using power-scaling for these two prominent franchises that have shared hundreds of different authors over several decades. Said writers naturally tend to have highly differing opinions and interpretations, which is reflected in their stories. Quite often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• For keys in existing profiles, and equipment files, one only requires at least 15 appearances across comic books, as opposed to 20.

and his MCU counterpart has it even when he only used it for less than 10 combined minutes in the whole franchise.

MCU's standards are not like the comic.

Something something Comic Book Standards are BS.

Agreed.

 

[Adr10K]

For keys in existing profiles, and equipment files, one only requires at least 15 appearances across comic books, as opposed to 20.

Damn that's sad.
Maybe we could add it as Optional Equipment?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Damn that's sad.
Maybe we could add it as Optional Equipment?

Good luck with that, like genuinely, you're gonna need it.