The NLFs need to stop

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

On Earth Mother Goddess:

"The goddess who is the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth is, in other words, the 'root' that created all creation." - taken from the description of Cursed Cutting Crater

 

[Sera_EX]

I guess. I personally am agaisnt such comparisons but this isn't about me so it's fine.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stop using the "Mother Goddess Authority" argument. Look at who it affect in-universe. That's it. Even the powers over Life and death can be countered by powerful Reality Warping or resistances.

The Earth Goddess' authority might be absolute in the Nasuverse, but that's only because she is important in the Nasuverse, and the Cosmology it tied to her.

It wouldn't give her authority over beings from other universes. Just like being Omniscient doesn't matter all that much in fights, as an Omniscient can't know a person from another verse.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah, assuming otherwise would be downplaying causality manip.

Was this to me?

BB's Authority works by causality manip. Therefore, if the opponent is "born of earth" (i.e. exists and is conceptualised as a result of Earth), don't have the higher divine authority, and doesn't have some way to get around causality manipulation, it will work on them.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Monarch

You asked if we agreed, I said yes (more or less).

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The whole thing about the "higher divinity" is also extremely vague. What defines the "divinity" of a character? Its powers? The number of its followers? The title "god/goddess"? Its position in a cosmic hierarchy in its own verse?
Also there is an extreme difference between saying "BB can manipulate causality to render herself immune to enemies attacks, but she can't do it if the opponent isn't from Earth/has a higher authority than BB herself" and "BB can negate the abilities of everyone born on Earth that doesn't have a higher authority than herself"

Reply to First paragraph - literally, the scope of their authority. What they rule over. What they control. BB ate a bunch of goddesses who had control over all life and death on earth. And I would say cosmic heirachy in its own verse.

Reply to second - oh is that the problem here? Ok, I agree someone should make a note on her profile. Pretty sure the "none born of earth may defy her authority as to do such would be rebelling agaisnt the system of life itself" is part of the actual in-game description of the ability, so then that should be put in quotes, and a note made, or just added to the ability's description, about how it works and the ways to bypass it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is a pure NLF, Monarch. You act like it will work on everyone because because it works on everyone in the Nasuverse.

A 4-A reality warper is more than enough to counter it.

You are assuming Causality Manipulation can only be beat by Resistance to it, that is also a NLF.

The Authority argument only works in Verse. Look at the most powerful character under the Authority and put the break there. And the "conceptualized as a result of Earth" is Nasuverse cosmology. You are literally turning other characters into Nasuverse characters to apply it to them.

This is basically the "Proof by Example" fallacy, no different than assuming that Saitama one-shots all 3D chars because he one-shot everyone in verse.

 

[Sera_EX]

No, he also said a way to counter it. How else will causality manipulation (hax) not work? Because a being is 4-A? That's not right.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Stop using the "Mother Goddess Authority" argument. Look at who it affect in-universe. That's it. Even the powers over Life and death can be countered by powerful Reality Warping or resistances.
The Earth Goddess' authority might be absolute in the Nasuverse, but that's only because she is important in the Nasuverse, and the Cosmology it tied to her.

It wouldn't give her authority over beings from other universes. Just like being Omniscient doesn't matter all that much in fights, as an Omniscient can't know a person from another verse.

You mean like say, the Chaos Gods / GEoM are only absolute in Warhammer? Or the Presence is only absolute in DC? Or Chronos is only absolute in Saint Seiya? So I guess they are powerless against other verses seeing as their abilities are only absolute in their own verses?

The authority is the Earth Mother's power and abilities. It is part of her character, part of what she is. Authority over earth. Even if we for some reason accepted it was only Authority over Nasuverse Earth, Verse equalisation means that anyone else from a fictional verse from their Earth also gets subject to that authority, and if they have some way to counter or bypass it, like for example Reality warping or resistance to causality manipulation, good for them, and if not, the authority works

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Potent Reality Warping involving space and time from a 4-A, with higher scale Warping than BBs Causality Hax.

Or Power nullification. Or Mind Manipulation to block her mind. Or life and Death Manipulation greater than hers.

There are numerous ways.

Causality Manipulation can be NLFd too.

 

[Schnee_One]

Power nullification is absolutely true with someone such as Kharn.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

On Earth Mother Goddess:

"The goddess who is the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth is, in other words, the 'root' that created all creation." - taken from the description of Cursed Cutting Crater

Obviously Planetary Creation.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Matt

What you just listed are ways to counter causality hax. That's exactly what Monarch was saying.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Planetary creation?

The point of the quote is that Earth Mother Goddess is being brought up in the same sentence as Akasha.

 

[Golden_Void]

I can only find 18 BB threads in total, 5 of which have been made by you.

OP......

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

This is a pure NLF, Monarch. You act like it will work on everyone because because it works on everyone in the Nasuverse.

I have acted like nothing of the sort. In fact, I have said exactly what lets it be countered.

A 4-A reality warper is more than enough to counter it.

If part of that reality warping is causality manipulation, sure.

You are assuming Causality Manipulation can only be beat by Resistance to it, that is also a NLF.

Is that not how hax works? You need to show either a resistance, or some way to counter the hax, like in this case, causality manipulation of your own. Or reality warping, assuming it has been shown to be reality warping capable of affecting causality. Otherwise it works on you. Literally what makes it hax.

The Authority argument only works in Verse. Look at the most powerful character under the Authority and put the break there. And the "conceptualized as a result of Earth" is Nasuverse cosmology. You are literally turning other characters into Nasuverse characters to apply it to them.

"Born of earth" is what it works against. And seeing as the only example of "born of earth" apart from the obvious literal definition is from Nasuvere, yes. We use the mechanics of the ability, of who it targets and can work against, as they are shown in the franchise.

This is basically the "Proof by Example" fallacy, no different than assuming that Saitama one-shots all 3D chars because he one-shot everyone in verse.

Bad example. Saitama only has strength. Of course we are not going to say it works against opponents who have shown themselves to be far stronger and more durable. BB's power on the other hand, is causality HAX. It working on stronger opponents, is what hax is!

 

[Schnee_One]

The whole thing about the "higher divinity" is also extremely vague. What defines the "divinity" of a character? Its powers? The number of its followers? The title "god/goddess"? Its position in a cosmic hierarchy in its own verse?

Well the definition of divine is to become a god or like a god.

BB absorbed the Earth Mother Goddess, Gilgamesh himself is a half god who after gaining his mythic formal wear, managed to surpass it and defeat BB.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Potent Reality Warping involving space and time from a 4-A, with higher scale Warping than BBs Causality Hax.

YES! Assuming this reality warping has been shown to be capable of affecting causality, yes. If not, it is an NLF to say this reality warper can stop her causality control. Also, out of curiousity. Why are you specifically listing a 4-A reality warper? I think we've establish GEoM crushes BB.

Or Power nullification.

Nope. Gets nulled. Authority makes the cause of the power nuller using their powers unable to result in the effect of BB having her power nulled. Unless of course they are a being not born of earth, or have higher divine authority, have their own causality manip or resistances to counter hers or are higher dimensional, Sure. BB VS Kharn being the prime example.

Or Mind Manipulation to block her mind.

Nope. Gets nulled. Authority makes the cause of the mind haxer using their powers unable to result in the effect of BB getting mind screwed. Unless of course Unless of course they are a being not born of earth, or have higher divine authority, have their own causality manip or resistances to counter her's or are higher dimensional.

Or life and Death Manipulation greater than hers.

Nope. Gets nulled. Authority makes the cause of the life/death manipulation using their powers unable to result in the effect of BB getting life/death haxed. Unless of course they are a being not born of earth, have their own causality manipulation or resistance to counter her's or have higher divine authority, or are higher dimensional.

Causality Manipulation is incredibly potent hax. Especially when it is a passive causality manipulation that severs the cause of her opponent attacking from the effect of BB being harmed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I removed the NLFs from her profile. I would request you stop showing blatant favouritism towards BB and buying into the NLFs of her skills.

You definitely are using proof by example, buying literally into Absolute descriptions and applying the Nasuverse Cosmology to other fictions.

I would recommend you read the Post Retcon Beyonder / Cosmos and Kubik storylines to be able to visualize how something seemingly infinite can be meaningless compared to something much higher.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah, I'm starting to side with Monarch here.