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THE MOST CONSISTENT DCEU SCALING.

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Hello there,
In this thread I will be going over how the current dceu scaling is very much lowballed and how the higher tiers of the verse would be more so in the 6A ranges. I only ask that you please hear out my points thoroughly.

1st point:
All the tier 7-Low 6B feats that we currently use to scale are extremely casual.

a)
Firstly let’s go over the Karathen feat which yields tier 6C to 6B. Although there is nothing wrong with the Calc, using this as peak ap scaling of the verse is disingenuous because it’s literally just the Karathen travelling up to the surface of the earth. Not intended to be an attack or it going “all out”. It’s very casual and shouldn’t be used as the high end of the verse.

b)
then we have the Lost Trident of Atlan. The
Calc yields High 7A results. The problem with the calf however is that it only accounts for the visible side of antlantis and not the whole thing.

As seen here, there is clearly much more land behind spanning all the way to the horizon.

And if that wasn’t bad enough it is also a very casual feat and was literally done by accident.

c)
The Anti-life magma feat. Was calced to a high end of Low 6B. Again nothing wrong with the calc it’s just a very casual feat as it was only intended for darkseid to summon the anti-life equation and not an AP attempt.


d)
Lastly, Let’s talk about the World Engine which yields Low 6B. As stated above, there’s nothing wrong with the Calc, however the application of said calc is what’s wrong.

But what does that mean? The current scaling incorporates time frames into the calc and divides its full yield by the amount of seconds so it’s currently only accounting for the world engines beam per second.

Yes it was going to take a “few weeks” to destroy the earths surface and its attack potency should likely remain the same at 6B however, its durability should not.

This is because of Neuton’s 3rd law. The world engine would have to withstand the full force of of its beam going on for weeks without rest or stoppage or else it would destroy itself in the process, which we know they don’t as the world engine in MOS was used in the past shown via the history lessons and flash backs.

According to the accepted scaling, the world engine should not be able to withstand the its own beam for more than a second which we know isn’t the case.

According to the same calc the full feat would come to 6.46570851e+17 tons of TNT which is High 6A.

Not only would superman have to hit the world engine with more force than the total yield to destroy it, he one shots that shit while being weakened

Now we have to determine whether this is an outlier, and if it’s consistent which leads me to my second point.

Lore wise, it is very consistent to for 6A at the bare minimum.

Example A.
Mother boxes.
It is already accepted that the mother boxes would bare minimum scale to surface wiping which would yield High 6A but for some reason no characters scale to it which does not make sense.

Taking from its Wiki page it literally says “Durability: At least Multi-Continent level, likely higher (A Mother Box is unaffected by the destruction of the worlds it reshapes)”

Side note: the world engine should have this same justification for its High 6A durability as well.

But why does it’s durability matter? Because in the Snydercut, superman doesn’t just split the unity, He destroys the mother boxes according to desaad.This would give him bare minimum High 6A AP.

Example 2
Original Doomsday busts a moon. This was calced to bare minimum High 6A Here

Stated that Steppenwolf fought that same doomsday and didn’t just “survive” but this information was given to us as a gauge on How powerful he was. Literally the only feat we see of that doomsday is busting a moon.

Example 3
Further proof of doomsdays being bare minimum High 6A is on Zack Snyders bvs watch party. He says doomsday would eventually destroy the world if he isn’t stopped when he’s talking about doomsdays explosions



Skip to 2:45:16

Based on how doomsdays powers work we know that his explosions are just him expelling energy that he absorbed and that’s how he evolves.

We also know that by the time of the final battle he faces Superman and Wonder Woman he would be beyond anything that humanity would be capable of outside of Superman and Wonder Woman.

Superman is constantly portrayed through out the movie as being able to destroy mankind if he wanted to so no nukes or anything would be able to even force doomsday to evolve so ww and supes would scale to his world ending explosion.

Example 4
Lost trident of Atlan.
Capable of sinking Atlantis which is described as a Continent in the guide book. Already explained why the accepted calc is a downplay above as well as why it’s also a very casual feat.

Example 5
Darkseid described as a world destroyer and being able to turn planets to “dust”.
stated both in verse and By Zack Snyder in his red carpet for zsjl. (Skip to 37:00)

Example 6
Superman oneshotting the world engine. As I explain above, the world engine should be able to tank the full force of it’s terraforming similarly to the motherboxes instead of just a second of its overall yield. Which puts it at high 6A.

Is Snyder’s Word of God valid?
vsbattle wiki accepts the rock’s WOG on Black Adam and Superman scaling. Snyder would have far more influence on the dceu than the rock for obvious reasons so his should apply as well.

Conclusion:
All of the tier 7 all the way up to tier 6B feats are very casual with most of them being accidents/by products and not intentional. The lore of the dceu however has numerous surface wiping (high 6A) feats and statements that its top tiers should scale too.
 
a)
Firstly let’s go over the Karathen feat which yields tier 6C to 6B. Although there is nothing wrong with the Calc, using this as peak ap scaling of the verse is disingenuous because it’s literally just the Karathen travelling up to the surface of the earth. Not intended to be an attack or it going “all out”. It’s very casual and shouldn’t be used as the high end of the verse.
Only High 6-C was accepted, not 6-B
c)
The Anti-life magma feat. Was calced to a high end of Low 6B. Again nothing wrong with the calc it’s just a very casual feat as it was only intended for darkseid to summon the anti-life equation and not an AP attempt.
Calc was also rejected on a later date
Example 2
Original Doomsday busts a moon. This was calced to bare minimum High 6A Here
Calc isn't accepted and we have no context as to how the moon was destroyed
He destroys the mother boxes according to desaad.
The Mother Boxes literally look perfectly intact in the same scan you provide
Stated that Steppenwolf fought that same doomsday and didn’t just “survive” but this information was given to us as a gauge on How powerful he was. Literally the only feat we see of that doomsday is busting a moon.
Source? And the same scan says Lex Luthor would work together with Steppenwolf in the movie when that doesn't happen at all.

Yeah, I'm not really buying it
Darkseid described as a world destroyer and being able to turn planets to “dust”.
stated both in verse and By Zack Snyder in his red carpet for zsjl. (Skip to 37:00)
We see that he invades planets with his armies. He doesn't do it all by himself
Is Snyder’s Word of God valid?
vsbattle wiki accepts the rock’s WOG on Black Adam and Superman scaling. Snyder would have far more influence on the dceu than the rock for obvious reasons.
Cool. Zack Snyder's WoG also states that Superman cannot lift a continent, Kryptonians can be KOed by cruise missiles and implied that the upper limit of their durability is nuclear bombs
 
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Only High 6-C was accepted, not 6-B

Calc was also rejected on a later date
That’s fine not too relevant to the topic.
Calc isn't accepted and we have no context as to how the moon was destroyed
Even if the calc isn’t accepted, surely it can be used as supporting evidence of type of power they’re packing.
The Mother Boxes literally look perfectly intact in the same scan you provide
Destroyed more so referring to not “functioning” anymore. Point still stands as its own blast would not cause this.
Source? And the same scan says Lex Luthor would work together with Steppenwolf in the movie when that doesn't happen at all.
Ummmm…. I think they’re referring to This and here’s the Source
Yeah, I'm not really buying it

We see that he invades planets with his armies. He doesn't do it all by himself
Fair point
Cool. Zack Snyder's WoG also states that Superman cannot lift a continent,
Lifting issue not ap
Kryptonians can be KOed by cruise missiles
They can before they fully adapt as shown with faora.
and implied that the upper limit of their durability is nuclear bombs
idk bout this tbh never heard of it.

please could you give your input on the other stuff I put in specifically the world engine durability. would be much appreciated
 
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Even if the calc isn’t accepted, surely it can be used as supporting evidence of type of power they’re packing.
If the calc isn't accepted, it can't be used. Simple as that

And again, the moon destruction happened off-screen with no context as to how it really happened, and is just a fun easter egg to reference what happened in the comics
its own blast would not cause this.
Yeah, because it isn't hacking into its system and then forcibly separating them apart
I think they’re referring to This
Literally just an image of Steppenwolf. There's no "working together" in that scene at all

Also, the magazine says it will happen in Justice League, not in Batman v Superman
here’s the Source
Yeah, I'm not buying with using a magazine article
Example 3
Further proof of doomsdays being bare minimum High 6A is on Zack Snyders bvs watch party. He says doomsday would eventually destroy the world if he isn’t stopped when he’s talking about doomsdays explosions


Skip to 2:45:16
A Low 6-B character with Relativistic speed and Kilometres of range can destroy the world without needing to be High 6-A
This is because of Neuton’s 3rd law. The world engine would have to withstand the full force of of its beam going on for weeks without rest or stoppage or else it would destroy itself in the process, which we know they don’t as the world engine in MOS was used in the past shown via the history lessons and flash backs.
This would only work if the World Engine is physically hitting the Earth and directly withstanding its attack like with this feat
 
If the calc isn't accepted, it can't be used. Simple as that

And again, the moon destruction happened off-screen with no context as to how it really happened, and is just a fun easter egg to reference what happened in the comics
Merely using it as supporting evidence because according to that article it’s also used to describe how strong steppenwolf is. I am aware the feat on its own isn’t enough.
Yeah, because it isn't hacking into its system and then forcibly separating them apart
It’s only stated that cyborg separated the unity and if he was able to “destroy” them by hacking he likely wouldn’t have needed supermans help.
Literally just an image of Steppenwolf. There's no "working together" in that scene at all
Idk if u know this but we literally see lex luthor at the buttom of that scene and it’s heavily implied that they’re working together. We see luthor’s notes in the theatrical cut which has the mother boxes and in zsjl part of the reason Bruce forms the JL is because of luthor’s warning
Also, the magazine says it will happen in Justice League, not in Batman v Superman
That image I gave u was from Batman vs superman.
Yeah, I'm not buying with using a magazine article
It was a Hollywood magazine used to promote justice league with lore facts likely coming from snyder as he himself has compared steppenwolf and doomsday’s strength when asked a question live on VERO.
A Low 6-B character with Relativistic speed and Kilometres of range can destroy the world without needing to be High 6-A
I already explained why this type of world destruction cannot be the case in bvs. This is because

1. Stated he was Going to destroy it through his explosions which come from absorbing energy from attacks.

2. Nothing humanity has would to be able to force doomsday evolve so superman and ww would have to scale to that world ending explosion.

It can’t be doomsday just running around punching things or randomly exploding over and over again because that’s not how he’s ability works.
This would only work if the World Engine is physically hitting the Earth and directly withstanding its attack like with this feat
Why would this be the case? The mother scales to its explosion in durability cause it physically has to withstand its explosion.

The world engine would have to also withstand the full yield of terraforming because it is literally withstanding the force of the beam for weeks without stop. And like I pointed out above we see in the history lessons that they have done this before.

Its AP should be the same but it’s durability has to change because current scaling says it can’t withstand its own beam for more than a second.
 
You try to remove those calcs from the scaling saying they are casual and not meant to be an attack. That’s not a reason.

I disagree.
 
I'm having really shit connection right now, so I can't properly respond
That image I gave u was from Batman vs superman.
And the magazine explicitly claims Lex Luthor and Steppenwolf will assuredly work together in JUSTICE LEAGUE.
likely coming from snyder
No proof
1. Stated he was Going to destroy it through his explosions which come from absorbing energy from attacks.
So over time, not an instant one-shot. Again, a Low 6-B character with Relativistic speed and Kilometres of range can do that
 
Oh I thought I was the only one having connection issues lol

Anyway neutral, a lot of the arguments presented here don’t work. The best avenues for an upgrade in my view would be the Mother Box stuff, reexamining some Aquaman feats + Doomsday fracturing a moon in conjunction with Superman being stated to be the most powerful and unstoppable force in the universe on his profile.
 
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You try to remove those calcs from the scaling saying they are casual and not meant to be an attack. That’s not a reason.

I disagree.
Bro u ignored the second half of my thread. I’m not trying to remove those calcs at all I’m saying that they shouldn’t be use to gauge the peak of the verse because they’re casual feats so the high 6A feats wouldn’t be outliers
 
Oh I thought I was the only one having connection issues lol

Anyway neutral, a lot of the arguments presented here don’t work. The best avenues for an upgrade in my view would be the Mother Box stuff, reexamining some Aquaman feats + Doomsday fracturing a moon in conjunction with Superman being stated to be the most powerful and unstoppable force in the universe on his profile.
What do you think about the world engine durability argument? I am also aware that some of the stuff presented wouldn’t be plausible on its own and it’s more so being used as supporting evidence in the lore.
 
What do you think about the world engine durability argument? I am also aware that some of the stuff presented wouldn’t be plausible on its own and it’s more so being used as supporting evidence in the lore.
Since we’ve already accepted the World Engine would be able to withstand its beam for two weeks I suppose that argument makes sense, unless I’m missing something.
 
I seem to be leaning towards Marvel's arguments here
 
I don’t think you understand my point.

In the scan u sent it talks about the doomsday stages.

a nuclear bomb was too much for stage 1 doomsday to handle therefore he evolves into stage 2.

Stage 2 doomsday gets Blitzed and one-shot by Superman which forces it to evolve again into stage 3.

Doomsday is then seen on the verge of evolving again after a drawn out battle with supes and ww but is ultimately killed by supe’s sacrifice before this can happen.

it is the hypothetical “stage 4” built up from taking hits from ww and supes that would “destroy the world”.

My point is that nothing on earth would be powerful enough to make him explode at this point in the story so it’s Wonder Woman and Superman would have to scale to the “World Ending” explosion.
 
I think it’d be best to get the sinking Atlantis feat recalculated, this time taking into account the continent statement.
 
For many reasons, the Doomsday calc isn't even accepted and we don't even have enough context on how it was done in the first place, so you can't use that as supporting evidence. Only the High 6-C end for the Karathen was accepted, not 6-B. And that lava rising calc seems like it's under questioning.
 
For many reasons, the Doomsday calc isn't even accepted and we don't even have enough context on how it was done in the first place, so you can't use that as supporting evidence.
Fair
Only the High 6-C end for the Karathen was accepted, not 6-B. And that lava rising calc seems like it's under questioning.
The actual yields of these specific calcs are not important because my main point of the thread are that they’re casual feats and shouldn’t be interpreted as top tier in the verse. It was never my intention to justify them.

Aside from that, we still have 3 points that should still be valid.

1) Doomsday has world ending explosion statements that superman and Wonder Woman should scale to. (Please check above for explanation)

2) The World Engines durability should scale to the full yield of its terraforming (high 6A) as is goes on for weeks without stop with Kal El being able to one-shot it. Even Maverick_Zero_X agreed.

3) Mother boxes were “destroyed” by superman according to desaad even tho its unity does not. Once again putting supes>high 6A

Aquamans Trident and the DD busting stuff is just side stuff that it’s implied in the lore.

also doesn’t black Adam and sabbac have some world ending stuff too?
 
it is the hypothetical “stage 4” built up from taking hits from ww and supes that would “destroy the world”.
So Doomsday would eventually destroy the world by absorbing multiple attacks from WW and SM

Yeah, I'm still unconvinced by this argument
even tho its unity does not
The same Unity that one-shot killed Superman and the entire Justice League except for Flash, who phased through it
 
So Doomsday would eventually destroy the world by absorbing multiple attacks from WW and SM

Yeah, I'm still unconvinced by this argument
Unless u have logical evidence to why ww and supes wouldn’t scale to Doomsdays explosion, u can’t just say I’m unconvinced and call it a day. Especially when u finally understand what my point was and didn’t even bother to counter.
The same Unity that one-shot killed Superman and the entire Justice League except for Flash, who phased through it
it’s stated stated to Have the power to re-arrange matter at the will of it’s master who would be steppenwolf meaning it the JL just doesn’t have matter manip resistance and it shouldn’t be a power thing as we literally see they should scale afterwards.

In the snydercut we are giving a visual that cyborg only helped divide the unity, while the “destruction” was superman.

also stated here that borg will Only weaken its bond from the inside and never stated anything about destroying it.

It’s also described as being the most powerful machines in the universe putting it above the world engine which would have High 6A dura as agreed above.

all of these shows consistency that when supes goes all out he’s somewhere around surface wiping then others would downscale from that.
 
Unless u have logical evidence to why ww and supes wouldn’t scale to Doomsdays explosion, u can’t just say I’m unconvinced and call it a day. Especially when u finally understand what my point was and didn’t even bother to counter
Because it takes absorbing many attacks from two Low 6-B characters combined to create one final explosion that destroys the world

At best that just gives Doomsday "up to High 6-A" or sth
also stated here that borg will Only weaken its bond from the inside and never stated anything about destroying it.
So Superman only "destroyed" the Mother Boxes after their bond was weakened
 
Because it takes absorbing many attacks from two Low 6-B characters combined to create one final explosion that destroys the world

At best that just gives Doomsday "up to High 6-A" or sth
Here’s the problem with this. With Superman and Wonder Woman’s current scaling, they would have to hit stage 3 doomsday around 180,000 times to reach surface wiping levels😭😭😭😭😭.
(This is based on dividing the world engine calc with This)

we know in their fight they only land around 6-7 hits on doomsday and it wouldn’t even make sense for the fight to be that long because as Lois was drowning during majority of it. Once she’s saved, they find the spear and kill him.

Even if u divided 180 pettatons by 7 would still have more than baseline High 6A levels of power.


So Superman only "destroyed" the Mother Boxes after their bond was weakened
Only the bond of the unity was weakened and cyborg said he would only help break them apart and nothing about its destruction. It’s very apparent that anything else that happened to them was superman’s doing.

It’s implied that he just split the boxes with so much force they got destroyed. Further proof that he destroyed it is when Zeus split the unity, boxes were still Active.

This is consistent with his world engine
(which was already accepted above) as well as the doomsday explosion.
 
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Here’s the problem with this. With Superman and Wonder Woman’s current scaling, they would have to hit stage 3 doomsday around 180,000 times to reach surface wiping levels😭😭😭😭😭.
(This is based on dividing the world engine calc with This)
Regardless, they won't scale to the full surface wiping calc
we know in their fight they only land around 6-7 hits on doomsday and it wouldn’t even make sense for the fight to be that long because as Lois was drowning during majority of it. Once she’s saved, they find the spear and kill him.
We don't know how long they would have to fight and how many hits they would have to land before DD becomes powerful enough to destroy the world
It’s implied that he just split the boxes with so much force they got destroyed. Further proof that he destroyed it is when Zeus split the unity, boxes were still Active.
Zeus scales above Superman for separating the Mother Boxes more easily than him
(which was already accepted above)
You have one admin accepting it, and that's not enough whatsoever
 
Yeah, I only think 1 of the arguments work atm. The stuff about Superman/Doomsday being able to wipe out mankind and Darkseid being a world destroyer are bunk due to unknown time frame.
 
Regardless, they won't scale to the full surface wiping calc

We don't know how long they would have to fight and how many hits they would have to land before DD becomes powerful enough to destroy the world
Ummmm… we do. As I pointed out earlier, we see doomsday is on the verge of transforming before he’s eventually killed.
Zeus scales above Superman for separating the Mother Boxes more easily than him
Whether Zeus is stronger than superman is quite irrelevant to this thread.
You have one admin accepting it, and that's not enough whatsoever
Fair enough however, not you nor anyone else that has disagreed with the point has been able to give plausible reasons to why.
 
we see doomsday is on the verge of transforming before he’s eventually killed.
Doesn't mean he's transforming to his world-destroyer stage
Whether Zeus is stronger than superman is quite irrelevant to this thread.
You claim Superman is strong enough to destroy the Boxes when splitting them. You then use an example of a stronger character not being able to destroy the Boxes when splitting them
not you nor anyone else that has disagreed with the point has been able to give plausible reasons to why.
Frankly, I'm moreso neutral to it because I don't recall how taking over-time attacks like these are treated
 
Yeah, I only think 1 of the arguments work atm. The stuff about Superman/Doomsday being able to wipe out mankind and Darkseid being a world destroyer are bunk due to unknown time frame.
Genuine question. Since when were time frames needed for surface wiping statements?

For example the Mother boxes are given high 6A for being able to terraform in an unknown amount of time.

Another example which is almost identical is Obito Uchiha is given high 6A for being able to “obliterate” this world.

isn’t high 6A supposed to be there bare minimum for surface wiping regardless of the timeframe as seen Here
 
Genuine question. Since when were time frames needed for surface wiping statements?

For example the Mother boxes are given high 6A for being able to terraform in an unknown amount of time.

Another example which is almost identical is Obito Uchiha is given high 6A for being able to “obliterate” this world.

isn’t high 6A supposed to be there bare minimum for surface wiping regardless of the timeframe as seen Here
It’s treated as High 6-A bare minimum when it’s done with a single attack/one large explosion, rather than a character going on a rampage.
 
Is doomsday’s final evolution a single blast that destroys the world? Cause if not, and it’s just about him going sicko mode, then I’m not seeing High 6-A happening.
 
Doesn't mean he's transforming to his world-destroyer stage
This would have to be the case because for 2 reasons:

1. If he evolves again, neither supes nor ww would be strong enough to cause him to explode again as he’s literally adapting to their power.

2. If supes and ww cannot cause him to explode, no one can
You claim Superman is strong enough to destroy the Boxes when splitting them. You then use an example of a stronger character not being able to destroy the Boxes when splitting them
Fair enough
Frankly, I'm moreso neutral to it because I don't recall how taking over-time attacks like these are treated
So like I said above, the world engines attack potency would stay the same however its durability should be increased because it should be able to tank the full yeild of its terraforming which is high 6A or else it would destroy itself before it accomplishes its goal.
 
It’s treated as High 6-A bare minimum when it’s done with a single attack/one large explosion, rather than a character going on a rampage.
Yeah I’m aware of this. I highly encourage you to read my full doomsday arguement as to why it would be in one large explosion.

I understand that the darkseid one is whack on its own and I only included it in to show further consistency in the lore, similarly to the moon stuff; it doesn’t have to make sense on its own.
 
For the World Engine: is the assumption that, because it gets stronger and stronger in order to terraform, it eventually has to endure a High 6-A terraform blast? Idk if I’m understanding it correctly.
 
For the World Engine: is the assumption that, because it gets stronger and stronger in order to terraform, it eventually has to endure a High 6-A terraform blast? Idk if I’m understanding it correctly.
It's that the WE needs to tank the total yield of its terraforming which is High 6-A, not that it's getting stronger
 
It's that the WE needs to tank the total High 6-A yield of its terraforming, not that it's getting stronger
hmm. That doesn’t make full sense to me. Like, if it’s just doing one blast over and over, and the total energy of that blast when you add it up over the course of weeks is High 6-A, that doesn’t really mean it can tank that amount.

It’s like saying you can tank an attack worth 500 of your punches because you can throw 500 punches, one after the other, and not be tired. It’s more a stamina feat than something you can just add up without some stated absorption going on.

Of course it’s a machine, but idk, it feels uneasy since it’s over time.
 
Yeah and the fact that supes could one-shot the world engine should put him closer to the full yield of the world engine rather than how much energy it gives per second.
 
But why? The World Engine doesn’t fully scale to it so why would Supes? It takes it a long time to accumulate that amount of power, so it doesn’t really need to be built to withstand the full yield, just enough of the yield that it can do the job over time.
 
hmm. That doesn’t make full sense to me. Like, if it’s just doing one blast over and over, and the total energy of that blast when you add it up over the course of weeks is High 6-A, that doesn’t really mean it can tank that amount.

It’s like saying you can tank an attack worth 500 of your punches because you can throw 500 punches, one after the other, and not be tired. It’s more a stamina feat than something you can just add up without some stated absorption going on.

Of course it’s a machine, but idk, it feels uneasy since it’s over time.
That’s completely different because the beam is on through out the whole duration and there are no breaks in between so it would have to tank the full thing.
 
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