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The God of High School Massive Debunk

I: Old members of the Six and Taejin Jin cannot be scaled from the gods

Profiles of Dusik Kim and Bongchim Nah (as I understand it, like the rest of the Six) indicate that they have Star level, because they are able to send a god flying or injure him. This is only half correct, because it doesn't actually make them that strong. There was enough visual and institutional evidence in the manhwa that the strongest people cannot be compared to a god in strength, whose Star level scaling is also highly controversial. Perhaps I'll start with this, and further I'll speak out specifically on a case and without excess water content: "At least Star level as Monster Dusik (Sent Zeus flying with a single punch)" In fact, it was not in any way demonstrated that Dusik inflicted even minor damage to Zeus with his blow, since latter didn't take his attempts seriously, and thunder god quickly brought him to a near-dead state. Obviously, in your opinion, he would not even have moved Zeus without making the necessary efforts. However, we have seen before that how Zeus allowed Dusik to strike several blows on himself, which he didn't even feel in the end. Hades also allowed Dusik to hit him, but in the end did not receive any damage. So the opinion that Dusik was able to significantly hurt Zeus with his blow, moreover, quite sudden for the latter, is either a delusion or a statement without any real evidence. Much later, we are also given a clear understanding that Dusik not only doesn't stand on a par with Zeus, he does not reach the level of the rest of old members of the Six or Taejin Jin in chapter 408: "Hey, you know what? You wouldn't even stand a chance against Zeus. In fact, forget about Zeus, you're not even at our level yet. You know that right? You're the weakest one of the Six. You're no tougher than a little street thug."
And in chapter 422: "Dusik, do you think you can beat Zeus? I don't think you can stand a chance. Not with your present status. Don't you remember? You were out cold after Zeus hit you once. How much progress do you think you have made since then? You think you can surpass gods as strong as Zeus? If you ask me, you're just busy trying to look like Taejin Jin."
So we have information that Dusik < other old members of the Six/Taejin < gods like Zeus.
Seo Hanryang: "Hey Mujin, what were you thinking, trying to fight monsters like these...?"
So the 27th leader of the National Homeless Association was able to fight against frivolous Zeus for a while, but that doesn't put him on a par with him: "Compensating for their physical inadequacies with technique. They really are descendants of a 'prominent clan'. Look how they've grown up~ very amusing. Even still, it doesn't change the fact that they are weak." When Zeus got angry, he blitzed him easily and tore off his hand in order to have a snack. This already demonstrates the colossal difference in their levels.
"Star level (Fought Odin with the help of Bongchim Nah, despite the fact that the latter was a Lord of the Heavenly Realm like Uriel and Satan), higher with Re-Taekwondo (Would have killed Odin with a kick, had the latter not lifted his left arm to block his face. Instead, he shattered the bones in Odin's arm)"/"At least Star level (Could wound Odin), higher with Bongchim Nah Needle Ryu" Taejin and Bongchim Nah could hardly compete with Odin while overcoming themselves, but even so, Odin deliberately held back, dropping himself to 'human level'. And they weren't able to damage him until after Taejin used Recoilless Kick, the only attack worthy of a 4-C breakthrough force (but since attack itself obviously doesn't have a recoil on the body, we cannot scale durability of Mori's grandpa at the same level). The only time Bongchim managed to wound Odin was when he poked finger in his eye, and it was an acupuncture strike to one of the weakest points, and not a direct physical blow, in which character puts his attack potency: "Medicine is my speciality." (Here I just want to say that for a different amount of damage to enemy's body, the character is not given an attack potency equivalent to enemy's durability. For example: complete destruction of body with planetary durability is Planet level, but just inflicting tiny damage like piercing the eye is, accordingly, much lower level. Bongchim Nah is not even type of martial artist who swings his arms and legs to deal brute damage with large area of attack). Taejin also notes that he prefers gradual progress instead of sudden jumping to level of the gods, that is, he is not equal to them in the literal sense of the word: "I like that. Like a warrior preparing to use his blade, or a sharpshooter to use hise gun, I want to make better use of myself. 'Become a god of fight'? That just sounds like a magic spell. 'Get stronger, poof!' That's just not fun at all."
And in chapter 477 it is certainly clearly demonstrated that humans, even after the taboo removal, are still far from the level of power of gods: "I was so foolish. I thought there was a huge difference in power between borrowed power users and non-borrowed power users. But from the gods' perspective, the difference barely matters at all." All Mujin's countless theories, according to which people can be stronger than the gods, are his personal nonsense from the shock of losing to Taejin and have not been confirmed in practice, moreover, in this chapter Mubong himself refuted them once and for all. So his former statements cannot be used as proof for something like "4-C humans".

II: Mujin Park didn't use the limiter before fighting Taejin

It is stated there that before the timeskip, Mujin had two keys: "Base (Limiter On)" and "Limiter Removed", and supposedly the latter is his prime. This is a fatal delusion. Mujin accumulated his power in the cross instead of stupidly limiting it, why didn't he use full strength to oppose the gods etc in the second case? Direct quotes: "Taejin Jin. These 17 years since I lost to you, 6205 days, 148920 hours, 8935220 minutes! Every single moment, every minute and every second, I was saving up my power. Power that I didn't use against the King, or even against the gods from the divine realm, power that I saved exclusively for defeating you, Taejin." "National treasure: Cross. A storage vessel capable of holding an unlimited amount of borrowed power. Since losing to Taejin 17 years earlier, he has been gathering power in it without missing a single day. For this day alone." "What? You're going to stop using power and save it up for a while? Saving all your power up in one place, huh? If that's possible, it would be amazing, but at the same time, it means you have to stop enhancing your skills while you're accumulating power. Although you wouldn't know what that means. Too bad." Absolutely all information makes it possible for the reader to adequately understand that Mujin used all the accumulated power at one moment against Taejin, but this was still not enough and he added essence of his life to this attack. Naturally, at the same moment, he lost all the accumulated strength and didn't remain at this peak for the next seventeen years, but became even weaker than he was before (while charging cross).

This whole bosh with post-timeskip 'Star level Mujin' also contradicts the fact that Jaesan Jeon, who is rated at far lower tier than former world president, is at least equal to this key of Mujin, if not stronger. As Mujin only with his best efforts was able to create an attack that was comparable to power of previous members of the Six, including Jaesan: "That's the skill that rivaled those of the previous members of the Six, the strongest fighters in history. The legend who was the youngest person in Korea to ever join the ranks of the Six, Mujin Park's true power." Also, Mujin equates himself with Jaesan, saying that if a magician has 'the power to protect', then he has 'the power to destroy completely'. And this is another OBVIOUS proof that no Mujin Park and none of the strongest people on the planet reached level of the gods, none of them grew strong so noticeably at all in timelapse between first seasons and the Ragnarok Arc, since this is indicated only by your scaling to gods, which was completely exposed by me above and is complete NONSENSE, which completely contradicts the manhwa itself and multiple statements about power and scaling inside the verse.

III: Almost everyone in sixth season have reached level of the gods. In fact, it's not so

Xiaochen bluntly states to Executive V that, thanks to the removal of taboos, post-timeskip fighters like new Executives, who 'was capable of harming Mori Dan so they are Star level (no)', only received newfound opportunities of borrowing power from gods, and didn't become uniquely strong in comparison with pre-timeskip: "I can't stand being tickled~ You're from the 'post-war generation,' aren't you? The current world was created by Ultio (R) during the Great War (Ragnarok). After removing all of the taboos on earthlings with his tam (avarice), power borrowers like you became 'trivially' common. We call people like you the 'post-war generation.' Every post-war guy I've met so far has one thing in common. They get this crazy idea in their heads that they're super strong. During the Great War, punks like you were barely spring chickens who would have fallen even at the hands of the 'priest.' I've never mocked you." Immediately after that, V was knocked out by the shockwave of her blow. To put it frankly, you also believe in what was described here.
Summing-up: new post-timeskip Executives < Priests (Saturn, Axley) < Bishops (Xiaochen) < gods
And this is another clear statement with which your scaling does not dare argue.

The question that concerns Dusik Kim again. Webtoon gave meat for thought about his level and the power of Generation X, as well as the limits of each of them, to which you completely closed your eyes. Dusik lost almost half of his health points from an concentrated explosion that could have destroyed Korean peninsula. Goding Han's 'All-Knowing Phone' calculated scale of damage of Particle Beam: "New Korea will be annihilated." Dean said: "If it weren't for the barrier, New Korea would've been completely wiped out!" (Nothing like planetary or stellar damage, just New Korea, keep in mind) You might say that Dusik was nerfed, so an explosion of this level inflicted critical damage on him (what is such a powerful nerf that reduces stellar durability to large island level, another nonsense), but as for the members of Generation X: it took them joint efforts to deliver dozens of strikes to already nerfed Dusik so that he lost about the same amount of health points as he lost in the explosion (over three or four chapters). Naturally, they all gave their best (also keep in mind that they were buffed by Heo Seobang). Stats of even the weakened Dusik transcended each of them (according to analysis of 'All-Knowing Phone'). Lee Mahnsin barely withstood nerfed Dusik's one hit. As a result, each of the Generation X is very inferior to Kim, primarily in terms of brute strength. Ah, yes. Dusik in monster mode also received almost no damage from Dean's and Seo Bongram's strongest attacks: "The damage Dusik Kim took after entering Monster Dusik Mode is almost the same as when we started. Dean is ready for death."
Summing-up: Generation X < Dusik Kim (secondary conclusion: two or three simultaneous explosions of the Korean peninsula kill Dusik) < Monster Dusik < Zeus (oh, this is true)
Something important that you also overlooked: Dusik did not become stronger at all during the timeskip, this is clearly stated, as in all other cases. So there was no way he could go up from High 6-A to 4-C in base (even if it were somehow possible, Dusik only has one key, and he doesn't even have Multi-Continent level attack potency)

IV: Other useful notes

Nephilim's Attack Potency "Country level (They are capable of throwing their swords from orbit)". How long can you try to fap inappropriate levels to these mid-tiers? None, none of them showed anything at the level of 17 teratons and will never show anything like that, because this level did not correspond to them initially. Author always clearly demonstrates destructive potential by direct achievements, like planet toss and taking korean peninsula level explosion, and in this case 17-teraton thrown swords don't justify themselves in any way. Foremost, the most objective reasoning: you took speed out of thin air and got such a 'stunning result.' Secondly, throwing an object from a tremendous height doesn't reflect the real physical capabilities of Nephilims like striking power with their bare fists (it even sounds ridiculous, "they can throw their swords vertically down from the sky", and of course such heavy artillery is heavy artillery in the end. If I could throw a brick from the Earth's orbit on the planet, it would have arrived at a speed of 20 km/s and with kinetic energy of 0.1577 tons of TNT (standard brick weight 3.3 kilograms), so I am Small Building level+ in real life, ауе). Wake up, otherwise it turns out that mid-tiers can almost one-shot Dusik Kim. Seriously, do you think Nephilim could throw sword vertically upwards at a speed of several kilometers per second? Also, how did all mid-tiers manage to rise from building level to country level in three months? Jin Mori was just sleeping all this time, so it is as illogical as possible that he became stronger a trillion times just while dreaming.

Monkey King's Yeoui didn't pulverized through the Moon. As you can clearly see, fragments of the Moon, pushed out by the staff, began to simply rotate around under influence of the gravity of the Moon itself. So there was obvious fragmentation. On the scans with the first appearance of Yeoui, we also see distinct debris. Even the official trailer for GoH manhwa from Webtoon shows the presence of orbiting debris around the Moon. It's hard not to notice. So based on the original calculation, I got 126,63184 Teratons, or Large Country level.

4-C Manseok Gang. This is not serious. I have already explained that there is nothing like 4-C Executives, but how did Gang become almost rival of Sujin Lee and 'no slower' than her? This cannot be disproved in any way, because it is impossible to prove it in turn. I can say with complete confidence that this is a wet fib of the one who makes profiles for GoH characters. The situation is such when several achievements of a planetary scale have been shown in the verse, and fans are already raising pawns that showed no feats and didn't give hints of any scaling up to Star level. Really soon ordinary people will be Star level (no God no)

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The other thread was done ages ago. This one can continue.
 
Right, so I will address this in order.

I: Old members of the Six and Taejin Jin cannot be scaled from the gods

Except that Taboo was explicitly broken for them, and it was because of that that they could harm the gods. Base Dusik was given free hits by Zeus and the latter felt nothing. Monster Dusik punched Zeus so hard he was sent flying. This is an explicit increase in power any way you put it. Remember that to enter Monster Dusik state, Dusik must have already been at 10% health, so of course Zeus using Thunder Hammer on Dusik repeatedly would put him out of commission. However, this does not take away from the fact that he did more than just stagger Zeus, so he backscales. Mujin telling Dusik that he can't beat Zeus is a textbook case of manipulation. Mujin throughout the series has been shown to be a master manipulator since the first chapter, when he killed the attorneys for not giving him what he wanted. From context, we already know Dusik is physically stronger than Mujin, like when Mujin's attacks did nothing to phase Dusik, and admitting that having Dusik on his side would earn him a powerful ally. Given this, we have no reason to believe that Mujin isn't trying to discourage Dusik just a little bit to gain the upper hand. Even if there is some truth to his words, he is in by no means a good source of information. Also, in Dusik's "training" he was tied with Zeus 5:5, so Mujin wasn't lying that Dusik couldn't beat Zeus, it could have had been a tie.

Hallyang did absolutely nothing to Zeus and this is very much acknowledged in the draft I have for his profile. However, Panhandler was explicitly shown to bruise Zeus, and is the same technique Bongram used to wound Monster Dusik. So it would scale to 4-C.

Taejin and Bongchim did this to Odin's arm before Taejin did Recoilless. Remember that the Gods have regeneration, and Odin himself explicitly having Mid regen. So there is very little left to the imagination here.

Remember that Mujin is the Supreme God. As in, way stronger than even regular Gods. His word holds as much water as a box with holes.

II: Mujin Park didn't use the limiter before fighting Taejin

Except he did against Beelzebub and cut the man in half. Also note that this is with vastly less time than the gap between Taejin's fight with The Six and Mujin killing Taejin.

Do remember that the Gods were scared of humans for a reason. Their potential for growth would have made them rival the Gods and that was seen as a no no. So if the Taboo wasn't in place, it is not unreasonable to assume that members of The Six, regarded as the most significant people in Korea in terms of strength and power, would be on the level of the Gods. As such, Mujin's claims would be held true and still not contradict them being 4-C. This on top of the fact that we give new arc characters new tiers regardless of any on-screen power ups as long as it's consistent with everyone else's power level in that arc. Such is the bane of having to deal with fiction.

III: Almost everyone in sixth season have reached level of the gods. In fact, it's not so

Xiao Chen is also the same person who was dunked on by several members of the Latin Executives, who are weaker than Alphabet Executives, who V is a part of. Also V was taken out by Xiao Chen using Kyokushin Karate which we have already established increases AP.

You said that the phone didn't give planetary or interstellar levels of damage but that's just AoE fallacy.

IV: Other useful notes

If Nephilim dropped their swords, we wouldn't have images of them shown in a throwing stance, nor would the swords do even half the damage they are shown causing. Also, Mira could cut a mountain and several clouds with a slash. Granted, her power was multiplied by 2, but it's still supporting evidence.

I don't mind the Yeoui change if everyone agrees it's frag instead of pulv. I'd like @PowerToScale to defend his calc since he was the one who made it.

The Manseok Gang thing is invalidated by everything I have said above. Oh, and if you'd like, I can show every instance of a character scaling to either Daewi or Mira whom you have no argument against being 4-C. Daewi fought Mujin who fought Mori Dan who fought Dean who fought Dusik. Daewi also directly fought Mori Dan who fought Mira. I'm not saying some characters are not vastly stronger than others, I'm saying they scale to different levels of 4-C.
 
I agree with Ovens here, and have a few comments of my own.

For the most part, these changes are based on two things: first, extremely slight damaging not qualifying for scaling, and second, Mujin's conversation with Dusik being 100% true. The latter has a lot of issues as stated above and has some stake in the former. Specifically on the former, while very slight damage would result in downscaling, the proposal here seems to be tier 6 people hurting, if slightly, tier 4s with no explanation, like Panhandler bruising Zeus. There's also the part about the Gods outright fearing humanity's potential, which I feel is far, far more conclusive in this regard overall.
 
Also your argument about 4-C regular humans being wack; this is not an argument at all. If the verse consistently shows it, regular humans could be 3-A for all we know. While I have 0 belief fodder unnamed humans are 4-C, I still strongly believe that anyone relevant to the plot in some way backscale from those 4-C characters.
 
Monkey King's Yeoui didn't pulverized through the Moon. As you can clearly see, fragments of the Moon, pushed out by the staff, began to simply rotate around under influence of the gravity of the Moon itself. So there was obvious fragmentation. On the scans with the first appearance of Yeoui, we also see distinct debris. Even the official trailer for GoH manhwa from Webtoon shows the presence of orbiting debris around the Moon. It's hard not to notice. So based on the original calculation, I got 126,63184 Teratons, or Large Country level.

I guess it looks fine. Although, going off the wiki, It would be Violent Fragmentation not Frag, as Frag refers to feats leaving large scale, whereas these are small/tiny in comparison. I've already made a recalc for the feat so the new calc can be added to Mori's page. Essentially, he'll just be slightly above Cont, instead of Cont+

 
Except that Taboo was explicitly broken for them, and it was because of that that they could harm the gods. Base Dusik was given free hits by Zeus and the latter felt nothing. Monster Dusik punched Zeus so hard he was sent flying. This is an explicit increase in power any way you put it.

After taboo was broken, Mujin could destroy a weak representative of the divine realm like Nephilim, but later, like all other powerful people, he could not easily deal with the gods. There is an very obvious difference in power between pawns like Nephilims and the gods, so there is no point in saying that humans have become on a par with the gods. You are just saying in context that ability to damage Nephilim is tantamount to damaging strongest gods. Dusik himself did not take the situation seriously, and we also see the difference between calmly delivering several blows (while Zeus looked as if he was really receiving significant damage from them), and from acceleration of several hundred kilometers from Shanghai to Seoul to charge much stronger blow (Dusik already felt sledgehammer strength of Zeus on himself and would not have restrained force of his own blow in an attempt to one-shot thunder god). The situations are identical in that Zeus allegedly 'actually' received damage, the magnitude of which was different in both situations, but he was completely fine both then and now (this only tells readers that Dusik's attacks were so weak that Zeus didn't even have to resist them). What I really want to say is that being able to inflict minor damage on an opponent who can easily annihilate you doesn't put you on the same tier with him, even though you have an obvious difference in strength (and keep in mind that low end to high end ratio of Star level is ~2,795x, so there are not so many 'different levels of 4-C'. For example: complete destruction of body with planetary durability is Planet level, but just inflicting tiny damage like piercing the eye is, accordingly, much lower level). 'Panhandler' bruised Zeus, but this still didn't cause him such significant damage that he at least paid attention to it in the future (and Hanryang himself noticed that Zeus is extremely tough. A similar situation was when Seo Bongram bruised Dusik's body, but it was quite fixable: "The damage Dusik Kim took after entering Monster Dusik Mode is almost the same as when we started. Dean is ready for death."). And Bongchim Nah only managed to pierce Odin's eye, when gods humiliated the Six effortlessly. Taejin alone managed to deliver a Recoilless Kick that could rip Odin's body apart, nothing more.

Fighting Zeus in a 1456-day dream is a mental training, because the dream of defeating an opponent does not physically reinforce the body. Even phrase "I decided not to wake up until I beat Zeus in my dreams!" sounds funny. He had hallucinations in which he makes it clear to himself that he is not a rival to Zeus when he fought Generation X. Q stated that Dusik actually hasn't made real progress in 17 years, he knows it from the experience that he received from nine battles with Dusik. Sleeping for several years instead of physical exercises and practicing martial arts suggests that Dusik is really lazy. Although Mujin is a manipulator, he didn't say anything that would contradict real situation, such as fact that Dusik almost knocked out after single blow from Zeus, and Kim himself doesn't even hint that he disagrees with Mujin's words (in addition, you are referring to his countless claims about superiority of people over the gods. Moreover, Mujin himself denied this when he became Supreme God, calling his previous view point stupid. So it was hypocritical to call him a bad source of information from your side).

Taejin and Bongchim did this to Odin's arm before Taejin did Recoilless.

An obvious deception. Because during first half of fight with Taejin and Bongchim, he only pretended they broke his arm and was restricting his true strength.
Taejin: "From the very start were you just 'pretending' to not to be able to use your left arm? You completely fooled us..."
Odin: "It was a penalty that I imposed on myself to lower myself to your 'human level.' But then you ruined it... How disgraceful!"
And after that, Odin was completely shocked when Taejin managed to shatter bones in his arm.
Odin deliberately deprived himself of the opportunity to use his left arm to succumb to the elderly.

Remember that Mujin is the Supreme God. As in, way stronger than even regular Gods. His word holds as much water as a box with holes.

This is a very harsh and thoughtless statement of yours. As Supreme God, he has knowledge of Tathagata, and having cognized goodness itself, he can better evaluate power of people and power of gods (after all, he's only one who knew what it means to be 'human', have human level power, and to be a god). We have a clearly illustrated difference between levels of both. This is in any case better than his past guesses, based only on his shock from defeat to Taejin, who surpassed only Mujin's ability to borrow power from a god, not god himself. And Mujin always spoke only about future possibility of humanity to enter a new stage of evolution: "Generation X, Wi-Fi. I see possibilities in these things. The possibility of us humans to be even greater than the most powerful gods! When the Wright brothers managed to get their first plane working, how long do you think they were in the air? 12 seconds. Just for 12 seconds. For 12 long seconds. If the Wright brothers thought of their first flight as 'just 12 seconds', we wouldn't have planes now. But they saw that 12 seconds as a possibility. As a result, humans could conquer the sky. Wi-Fi still has lots of room for improvement. Generation X is still weaker than you, Dusik, a former member of the Six. They might look 'just 12 seconds' to you, but they look like possibilities to me. The possibility for human race to rise on the top of all things. If there is another Ragnarok... We'll defend the world ourselves. Not with Jade Emperor's power or Jaecheondaeseong's Yeoui, but with human power alone."
Mujin personally nullifies guesswork about superiority of humans over the gods, which you somehow interpreted for yourselves. A direct parallel is drawn here, he compares people with their current level of strength to 'just 12 seconds', and equates gods with a full-fledged ability to fly in the sky. He says that humanity wouldn't yet be able to resist or fight gods if second Great War began, but this could be probably achieved in the future thanks to his inventions. And he always spoke only about the possible future. People are still too weak at the moment, this is a fact that was established by Mujin himself countless times.

Except he did against Beelzebub and cut the man in half. Also note that this is with vastly less time than the gap between Taejin's fight with The Six and Mujin killing Taejin.

So what? In any case, his basic attacks aren't rival to accumulated energy, which is released in one gulp and concentrated to attack Beelzebub or Taejin, and Cross is not the limiter as you present it. Even context of your words is at odds with the fact that post-timeskip Mujin's base is allegedly weaker than his key when he used 17-year power against Mori's grandpa, not his pre-timeskip base state.

You said that the phone didn't give planetary or interstellar levels of damage but that's just AoE fallacy.

Where exactly is fallacy? I see just firm multiple statements that explosion could destroy New Korea, phone didn't calculate planetary level, because no planetary level damage could be in fact. And Dean also confirms it. What is the point of arguing with this (as with the rest of obvious things that I wrote about above, if no one simply has and didn't show Star level, scaling doesn't lead us to Star level and people are evidently weaker than the gods)?

If Nephilim dropped their swords, we wouldn't have images of them shown in a throwing stance

And again we see how Nephilim simply throws sword vertically down, which again doesn't show his personal physical capabilities, like striking power with bare fists. Swords are their heavy artillery. People use an axe to chop wood because they cannot do it with their bare hands. We use tools anyway for work that is beyond our own efforts. By your logic, ordinary humans should be given Street or Wall level AP and durability for using sledgehammer, sword, fire axe, various types of edged weapons or firearms, because with their help they can, for example, shatter skulls or bones, make holes on the solar plexus, cut off limbs. I shall throw a brick from orbit and so achieve even Small Building level+. Think seven times now. If barehanded Nephilim could cause destruction with energy output of 17 teratons with a normal punch, they wouldn't have to throw their swords from a safe distance to bombard the environment.

Although, going off the wiki, It would be Violent Fragmentation not Frag, as Frag refers to feats leaving large scale, whereas these are small/tiny in comparison.

@PowerToScale, these Moon fragments, based on pixel scaling or just visual assessment, would be dozens of kilometers in size; you can't tell fragmentation from violent fragmentation on a macroscopic scale. It is better to get by with first option.
 
I would like to once again remind everyone we gave Tony Stark scaling to Thanos for drawing a single drop of blood and Frisk tier 2 for barely scratching Flowey.

I'll type out a full response in a moment.
 
ok just immediately, your response to the Odin situation is an outright lie. Odin was specifically not using his left arm when fighting Taejin and Bongchim because he was basically messing with them, but Taejin's attacks were so strong that Odin was forced to defend with his left arm. He outright runs off after Taejin messes up his arm as well.
 
@Jaechöndaeseong the fragments are small compared to the actual hole. Thoudands of small fragments, which is why it would be V. Frag.

The actual size of the fragments of the fragments doesn't matter, only their size compared to the hole would.
 
I would like to once again remind everyone we gave Tony Stark scaling to Thanos for drawing a single drop of blood and Frisk tier 2 for barely scratching Flowey.
I mean, I would ask for them to be downgraded in that case, scratching someone should not be any mean to scale to their AP.
 
Except that you wouldn't even be able to scratch a character if you have a massive tier difference. Any amount of visible damage done is grounds for backscaling.
 
Now to respond to Jaechöndaeseong:

We absolutely do scale people who inflict minor damage upon each other as long as it's treated as significant. Dusik throwing Zeus dozens of meters away with a punch and Hallyang bruising Zeus is very much grounds for scaling.

This is the same universe where Mori Dan can do the same thing as Dusik with even less effort. Even if we assume Dusik did not train to get stronger, he very obviously does through scaling chains. I must stress, you're challenging me with statements when what is shown is clearly different. Feats > statements in this scenario and the feats are that Dusik is stronger than Dean who fought Mori Dan who fought Daewi who is 4-C.

It is also stated that Daewi is weaker post-timeskip, but we have him fighting Ilpyo on even grounds who could have not been anything but stronger since Ragnarok. The whole "stated to be weaker" thing is made moot when the author pits the weaker people against people who didn't get weaker after Ragnarok.

The fallacy is that the phone states that the blast will destroy New Korea, not that the energy output is city level. AoE fallacy is when we assume an attack isn't a higher level because it doesn't correspond to the area of damage being afflicted. The attack could have very much been 4-C, just that the area of effect would have been limited to New Korea.

If I toss a javelin and my arm doesn't implode, I can take at the very minimum the force of that javelin's output. Such is Newton's 3rd Law. So if a Nephilim throws a sword and it breaks through the crust of the planet, the Nephilim needs to physically be capable of taking that force himself or his arm will implode. Also don't use real world equivalency. I can't break the crust of the planet with an axe chop, neither can you. The forces at work here are far greater than what human limitations are capable of.

I have no stake in the moon thing, so I'll let Power sort it out.

Also you have not once addressed the glaring scaling issue. Mujin can fight Daewi on even grounds and Daewi is 4-C with the Wisdom of the King any way you slice it. This same Mujin fought Dusik evenly. Hell, if you want to argue something dumb like 'Daewi got weaker', he's evenly matched with Mira who Mori Dan fought, who Dean fought. Hell, O fought Sujin and he fought Xiao Chen, Sujin herself at the very bare minimum being 5-A and that's pushing it to the extreme because she could take hits from Dante Okhwang. Ilpyo also fights Daewi and even struggles with him and the man fought Shiva, making him at least 4-C as well. Again, all members of The Six both past and present have no reason not to scale to each other in some way.

You have also not addressed my Taboo argument where without the Taboo, humans would have been on par with Gods.
 
Also you have not once addressed the glaring scaling issue. Mujin can fight Daewi on even grounds and Daewi is 4-C with the Wisdom of the King any way you slice it. This same Mujin fought Dusik evenly. Hell, if you want to argue something dumb like 'Daewi got weaker', he's evenly matched with Mira who Mori Dan fought, who Dean fought. Hell, O fought Sujin and he fought Xiao Chen, Sujin herself at the very bare minimum being 5-A and that's pushing it to the extreme because she could take hits from Dante Okhwang. Ilpyo also fights Daewi and even struggles with him and the man fought Shiva, making him at least 4-C as well. Again, all members of The Six both past and present have no reason not to scale to each other in some way. You have also not addressed my Taboo argument where without the Taboo, humans would have been on par with Gods.

Mujin always spoke only about future possibility of humanity to enter a new stage of evolution: "Generation X, Wi-Fi. I see possibilities in these things. The possibility of us humans to be even greater than the most powerful gods! When the Wright brothers managed to get their first plane working, how long do you think they were in the air? 12 seconds. Just for 12 seconds. For 12 long seconds. If the Wright brothers thought of their first flight as 'just 12 seconds', we wouldn't have planes now. But they saw that 12 seconds as a possibility. As a result, humans could conquer the sky. Wi-Fi still has lots of room for improvement. Generation X is still weaker than you, Dusik, a former member of the Six. They might look 'just 12 seconds' to you, but they look like possibilities to me. The possibility for human race to rise on the top of all things. If there is another Ragnarok... We'll defend the world ourselves. Not with Jade Emperor's power or Jaecheondaeseong's Yeoui, but with human power alone."
Mujin personally nullifies guesswork about superiority of humans over the gods, which you somehow interpreted for yourselves. A direct parallel is drawn here, he compares people with their current level of strength to 'just 12 seconds', and equates gods with a full-fledged ability to fly in the sky. He says that humanity wouldn't yet be able to resist or fight gods if second Great War began, but this could be probably achieved in the future thanks to his inventions. And he always spoke only about the possible future. People are still too weak at the moment, this is a fact that was established by Mujin himself countless times.
Here I addressed it. You still have not provided clear proof that taboo removal from humanity puts them on par with gods, in turn. Frankly, this is based only on your speculations, which have nothing to do with manhwa. We have that, according to some statements, gods imposed taboo on humans, because they were afraid of them and they, in turn, could no longer attack them; that humans, after R destroyed taboo, still have to develop in order to be able to independently resist gods (and this isn't water, but precisely those ambitions that Mujin constantly talks about). There is a logical conclusion: humans still need to grow and develop themselves, get rid of remnants of taboo that haven't been completely eradicated from their essence, and no one in actual fact, not even Mujin Park himself, knows what mysterious abilities people had in the past, that even gods were afraid of them.
And this is a direct confirmation of what I said above: "The taboo. It's a kind of restriction or limitation placed on human DNA by the gods. 17 years ago, R sacrificed himself to destroy the taboo embedded in our DNA, and that gave a lot of people free control over borrowed powers like now. It's been 17 years since the taboo was lifted, humanity is prospering once again. We say the taboo was lifted, but there are still traces of it in our DNA. But how will it be two or three generations from now? That's right. It's exactly what you are thinking. 17 years after the taboo was lifted. Now that pure power borrowers are having kids together, a second generation is being born and growing up. I came up with theory. If this continues over two or three generations, someday the 'traces of the taboo' left in the human genetic code won't even exist anymore, then a new human race will be born. No one knows what kind of powers or abilities they'll have. One thing that's clear is that even the gods were afraid of this. (...) Dean's appearance means there must be at least a few more of them out there right now. I have to protect them, train them, and turn them into the leaders of the next generation. That's the only way to truly repay R for his sacrifice. (...) Just wait. Now, human beings destined to surpass the gods are being born as we speak!"
I have no idea how you interpreted it in such a way that 'humans are equal to the gods'. I didn't even have such thoughts when I first read manhwa, because as a normal reader I adequately analyzed provided information and came to conclusion that humans are weaker than gods. Much weaker. At least for now.

Yes, I will always stand up for statements like 'someone' got weaker, because statements, and thus author's statements, are always above any scaling. Characters and especially author cannot lie to themselves. It can be difficult to understand you, because you constantly decide for yourself what is a lie and what is true in words of various characters, you decide who is manipulating whom, based on your own false beliefs, without having real reasons to say so, and all in order to make it all come down to '4-C humans scaling', lmao. It doesn't work that way. Now a little about everything:
If Ilpyo, who became stronger, fought on equal terms against Daewi, who was weakened, then this must mean that either Shiva is weaker than gods of the first heavenly realm, if according to your scaling (because in fact there is no reason or proofs to believe otherwise), or Daewi was originally too strong for the likes of Shiva (see below about that).
Mujin can fight Daewi on even grounds you say? Mujin used Project Wi-Fi to suppress Daewi's fundamental forces manipulation, it doesn't affect his own stats and abilities. Daewi could easily neutralize Mujin's strongest attacks by using Wisdom of the King, 'in the blink of the eye', as Mujin himself put it, which obviously puts his own combat power far below 'Daewi's 4-C'. With Project Wi-Fi and Quantum Computer and a lots of agents, Mujin used 56 borrowed powers specially designed for melee and ranged attacks, neutralized Daewi's ability to control fundamental forces, even mirrored this ability for his own use, and all this was not enough to defeat him, lmao: "All this wasn't enough for... an incomplete Jade Emperor like him? A skill 17 years in the making... But I could not take him down... laugh Just look at this. After all that big talk about science or whatever... (...) How much money was invested in this project? What was the timeline? I couldn't defeat the Jade Emperor even with all of that money. Not even an incomplete Jade Emperor. How are you going to explain this? Doctor. (...) But, starting now, you have to upgrade the attack power and durability." What could one think of by saying that they are equal opponents? Daewi is even listed as the strongest among the strongest people on the planet.
I don't deny that Daewi fought on equal terms against Mira. This is the only sensible thought you have said. Mori Dan after training was already too strong for Dean: Dean himself commented that Dan, even before his training, the same Dan who defeated Dean and tore his own Dragon Armorsuits, is stronger than Monster Dusik, and Dean knows this from his combat experience. And Dean, in turn, is much weaker than Dusik, being unable to even inflict significant damage on him with his strongest attacks (I have already proven all this in my previous posts), and whole Generation X was stated to be weak in comparison with Dusik Kim.
Sujin is at very bare minimum 5-A you say? Perhaps she could fight younger Natak Princes and slightly harm them in Adventure Arc, but was completely useless against Ardun, who either blocked all of her attacks with one hand anyway, or took no damage at all. This is not because she simply 'failed to harm him' or plot stupidity, this is just a demonstration of the huge gap between their levels. By the way, Mori's profile indicates that he has Large Planet level stats in his base: "At least Large Planet level (Tanked the collision of two planets without injury and survived the explosion of the Sage Realm), higher in Monkey King Mode" and "At least Large Planet level (Can fight opponents who can harm him), up to higher with Jeahbongchim Acupuncture, in Monkey King Mode". Meh. Mori tanked collision of planets in Monkey King mode, and in base he passed out for a very-very long time after Oraeguk explosion, until he woke up in another solar system. And why don't you scale base Sujin to conditional '5-A' from Mori when they fought on equal terms on Oraeguk, and when it was really an equal fight, not farce like 'Mujin vs Daewi'? Is there really no room for logical scaling?
As you can see, all your scaling no longer makes sense.
Now for the gods. In fact, we don't have a reason to scale Star level for humans from the gods, but it is also impossible to scale it to gods themselves from Daewi, which is actually the only source of 'Star level' scaling for the verse. There is a lot of farce here, which I just did not mention earlier.
First, we must simply accept the fact that each of the gods is weaker than owner of Sage's Wisdom. This scaling destroys itself: you scale Star level to various gods like Michael from Daewi, from them to Zeus, who got oneshotted by Daewi himself without him using lot of sage power. Without exception, rest of the gods, without caution, could also be destroyed by this power, which Beelzebub noted. Even old Okhwang effortlessly humiliated Beelzebub and forced him to return to first heavenly realm. It is a mistake to simply assume that Daewi used full power when he fought gods. Even while being fueled by power of Oraeguk monkeys after killing Zeus, Daewi, after tussle with Satan and Michael, had problems controlling Planet (Mars) Toss at gods, and he believed that use of such heavy artillery would be enough to one-shot them all (except for Satan, whom he sent to the Moon, and who is the strongest among gods anyway) (so, all gods are roughly comparable, not excluding Zeus, yeah?). In fact, it took combined efforts of Uriel and Odin (who used Gungnir) to stop oncoming Mars, not even destroy it (how would these two even deal with Jupiter approaching at relativistic speed?). This was point of no return, before which there can be no Star level even in theory. Because Jupiter's throw shocks both Daewi and Beelzebub, and former has to apply an unused degree of power to counter Satan's move. Daewi spent almost all his energy and only Yeoui and motivation received from Mori Hui helped to push Jupiter away from the Earth (this is not casual feat). Mori Hui, in turn, even spent his entire supply of energy and sank into oblivion. You must understand that in order to scale Star level, you need to prove that Daewi put maximum efforts (which demonstrated with push of Jupiter) in battle with gods, despite the fact that it is difficult for him to control Wisdom of the Sage:
▪ Ordinary humans are incapable of using Sage's Wisdom properly, and this has very negative effect on their condition.
"His whole body is in such bad shape that it would be quicker to find somewhere that isn't hurt. He really pushed himself hard. This guy really can't control himself when it comes to helping friends." "He may be inherited with Jade Emperor's power but in the end, he's just a man who obtained his mind. It's a miracle that he's even still alive. That must be thanks to his almost unimaginable training. Using the Jade Emperor's power with a human body is kind of like handling an antiaircraft gun while you're naked. To put it in terms of the weapons in your current world, his body suffered a shock greater than if you were to fire 155mm artillery while naked."

The attack could have very much been 4-C, just that the area of effect would have been limited to New Korea.

How can this be logically possible at all? Even taking into account that blast radius has already been reduced by Goding Han's barrier, so that explosion doesn't destroy New Korea, but here it turns out that a star-scale explosion itself was concentrated within radius of the country (sarcasm), because you wanted so and it obviously contradicts your pseudo-scaling again, and any obvious things contradict too, so you recast them according to your train of thought, sorry for being rude. This frankly bothered me.

I can take at the very minimum the force of that javelin's output. Such is Newton's 3rd Law. So if a Nephilim throws a sword and it breaks through the crust of the planet, the Nephilim needs to physically be capable of taking that force himself or his arm will implode.

When Newton's 3rd law says "When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body", then in our case these bodies are Nephilim's sword of and ground that it destroys. Sword must have enough durability to not break under the influence of its own kinetic energy on the ground, yes. But it has nothing to do with Nephilims themselves. It's another matter, again, if giants independently by using their own striking strength were causing large-scale destruction, and in this case they would've to be durable enough to withstand force of their own strikes. But not in the case when Nephilim is merely 'third body', which only makes 'two main bodies' touch each other.

@Jaechöndaeseong the fragments are small compared to the actual hole. Thoudands of small fragments, which is why it would be V. Frag.

The actual size of the fragments of the fragments doesn't matter, only their size compared to the hole would.
 
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I agree with Ovens, there is no reason not to scale most of the verse to Star Level or to some degree of it.

@Jaechöndaeseong Your arguments against Star level Gods is faulty. You think Daewi wasn't using his full power against the Gods and could've easily killed them as he did Zeus but ignored that what Beelzebub actually said is that Uriel might end up like Zeus if she underestimates Daewi. Daewi states he hoped for a better situation but laments the fact that all the Gods are on the same level as Micheal and that he is outnumbered. When Daewi states this, he wasn't fighting all the Gods by himself, just 2, Satan who he tossed to the moon, and Micheal. Daewi also did not push any of the Gods beyond phase 1 nor witnessed their second and third phase until after Mori Jin arrives and replaces him to actually fight the Gods by himself while Daewi helps Haetae fight the Unknown. There is no reason to assume the Gods aren't somewhat comparable to Daewi, especially when they fight Mori Jin who is stronger and should by virtue be stronger than a dying Mori Hui.

Daewi using Strongforce (Subatomic durability negation) to "one-shot" Zeus being used as proof that Daewi scales far above the Gods is ridiculous, especially when the attack didn't even kill Zeus.

Odin and Uriel having trouble stopping Mars isn't proof against the scaling and does nothing but prove their lifting strength is weaker than their AP which is nothing unusual and is how most characters in fiction are. The Gods not destroying Mars or Jupiter is perfectly fine as you are shown when Mars starts breaking that its debris began falling to Earth before Daewi reflected it away. Earth was supposed to be the new home of the Gods so it stands to reason they don't want to risk major damage to it by destroying Jupiter and Mars.

Not to mention that post-timeskip Commissioner O with dragons fought both Xiaochen and Sujin with Pandora armor to the point that Sujin was exhausted. Pre-timeskip Sujin Pandora armor has a Star level feat for casually destroying Okhwang's big bang strong nuclear force attack that threatened to wipe out all of Asia and damaged Xiaochen who took multiple hits from Zeus. Sujin also lost to Mori Jung.

Almost all Gods would automatically scale way above Commissioner O, Xiaochen, Pandora armor Sujin, and Mori Jung's star level rating based on that only.
 
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This entire time, you have not provided a clear alternative for the scaling of everyone. You have consistently ignored direct scaling in favour of statements that contradict showings, and are arguing using systems not adopted by the wiki.

Feats > statements unless shown otherwise. To dispute this is to dispute the wiki. Also the validity of Daewi being weaker was questioned by characters themselves who admitted he was still as strong as he was. This on top of the fact that Karate boosts Daewi's AP to the point he can one-shot fodder Executives. These same techniques put him on even grounds with the likes of Mira Yoo and Mori Dan.

Shiva absolutely could not have been any weaker than the other Gods. The strength of the Gods increases the higher up the realms you go and Shiva was a God of the 3rd heavenly realm, she would have been stronger than Zeus at the very least.

Sujin not scaling to Ardun makes 0 sense. Ardun's body is more durable than his AP output, of course she wouldn't be able to harm him. However, she took a straight hammer from Ardun, so her durability scales.

I implore you to read our fallacy page and learn what an AoE fallacy is. Just because a character isn't blowing up planets with every attack they do, doesn't mean their focused attacks aren't planet level. This logic applies to every verse on the wiki.

In summary, provide alternative solutions to the current scaling so that we may evaluate them. At this juncture, I have no idea what you're trying to push for here. Are the god tiers supposed to just be tier 6 now?
 
I implore you to read our fallacy page and learn what an AoE fallacy is. Just because a character isn't blowing up planets with every attack they do, doesn't mean their focused attacks aren't planet level.
Umm... this isn't there...
 
Shiva absolutely could not have been any weaker than the other Gods. The strength of the Gods increases the higher up the realms you go and Shiva was a God of the 3rd heavenly realm, she would have been stronger than Zeus at the very least.
Zeus, Odin, Satan, Uriel, Michael, Beelzebub are of the First Heavenly Realm so Shiva would be weaker than Zeus.
 
yeah it's not listed on the fallacy page

Either way, fiction does often have characters compress their attacks towards an opponent to not just destroy absolutely everything

It'll constantly emphasize they're obviously way more powerful than they appear, like how Cole MacGrath can casually take an explosion that vaporized 6 city blocks to the face but his attacks are hardly destructive whatsoever

Pretty sure God of Highschool is no exception. You need more solid contradictions to say something is an outlier.
 
One thing I don't get is how Gen X is for some reason rated the same as Gods Of Heavenly Realm.
This is nonsensical.
 
Let's not derail (even though I know it's not you guys' intention). I already had something in mind about that, I'll send it to you guys when I make it.
 
I don't know how Taejin wouldn't scale to Odin when Odin himself states to Mori that his dad gave him a good time, meaning he would scale regardless of how he damages odin which is plain proof. Even if he had help, the fact that Taejin is superior to bongchim and even with help he still damages odin BY HIS OWN ATTACKS without any buffs whatsoever
 
Any amount of visible damage done is grounds for backscaling.
Scratching someone should by no means even count as enough damage to even be remotively close in AP. I do have a character rated as "At least High 8-C, likely far higher" for dealing small harm to a 5-B, however, that's exactly what the "far higher" in the AP represents. Just because a bee deals me damage doesn't mean the bee's strenght is even close to mine, and said case would be no different.
 
Does anyone want to add anything else or need anything cleared up?

If not then I would like to resolve the moon piercing feat with a calc member, maybe @DMUA
 
The current 6-A+ calc comes from the pulverization of part of the moon. Jaecondaesong is arguing that it should just be frag, since the piercing of the moon left debris that orbit around.
 
Something I would like to mention is that the debris around the moon in that later shot, could possibly not be from the staff first stabbing through the moon but from when it receded.

https://www.webtoons.com/en/action/the-god-of-high-school/ep-108/viewer?title_no=66&episode_no=108

When it first happens we're not really shown any indication of a lot of debris, but after it receds we see the tower that used to be on top destroyed and going into orbit while also starting to see debris forming around the moon.

Not too sure myself on which it is.
 
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