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He can still teleport the gems, making it not a stomp.
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Thanos vs Heaven Ascension DIO
- Thread starter ArgentinianDeadpool
- Start date
- Status
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Yeah? None if ya are stating why immeasurable speed would stop a time stop that can effect people who dont need time .
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BECAUSE SAID PEOPLE.
ARE INFINITE.
NOT IMMESURABLE.
ARE INFINITE.
NOT IMMESURABLE.
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Gargoyle I'm gonna need to ask ya to explain the difference exactly, because from what I can see it gas to do with time, but ger doesn't need time either and the only reason why he isn't above infinite is because he cant time travel with it. Basically he is almost immeasurable but not quite .
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That doesn't explain anything when he isn't even listed as immeasurable to help .
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I already explained why Immeasurable speed is vastly superior to infinite speed.
Infinite speed = moving while time stands still due to sheer speed.
Immeasurable speed = moving beyond linear time as a concept
Infinite speed = moving while time stands still due to sheer speed.
Immeasurable speed = moving beyond linear time as a concept
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Ger didn't move wgen time stood still, he moved wgen time didn't exist .
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No he moved when time was erased from the present .
While it is an infinite feat, it does show he has no need and time itself doesn't effect him yet DIO can stop him, basically GER while is not immeasurable, he is apart of the time doesnt matter facet of it, he just can't replicate the other aspects of it.
While it is an infinite feat, it does show he has no need and time itself doesn't effect him yet DIO can stop him, basically GER while is not immeasurable, he is apart of the time doesnt matter facet of it, he just can't replicate the other aspects of it.
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^MrKingOfNegativity said:
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Let me put this to you another way.
The Langoliers quite literally eat reality within the past, including time and space itself. When they are done eating, all of time, space, reality, etc. is gone, yet they can still move about in this absence of literally everything no matter what, as they continually appear afterwards to repeat this process for every single day that passes by.
They still only qualify for Infinite speed.
If beings such as that don't qualify for Immeasurable speed, then people who can simply 'move where time doesn't exist' most certainly don't.
The Langoliers quite literally eat reality within the past, including time and space itself. When they are done eating, all of time, space, reality, etc. is gone, yet they can still move about in this absence of literally everything no matter what, as they continually appear afterwards to repeat this process for every single day that passes by.
They still only qualify for Infinite speed.
If beings such as that don't qualify for Immeasurable speed, then people who can simply 'move where time doesn't exist' most certainly don't.
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Yes yes, I get that, I'm not arguing for immeasurable GER, but is it not true the reason why immeasurable fighters are resistant to time manipulation being merely because of the fact time isn't needed for them? with the immeasurable listing only being added due to further extrapolation of that.
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DIO's time stop would have to have been shown directly affecting an Immeasurable character in order to be usable on them in matches. Otherwise, logically speaking, they are very literally beyond his ability to time-stop them in any way, shape or form.
Is all I'm saying.
But anyway, that much doesn't even matter in this fight, since regardless of whether or not the time stop would work on 2-A Thanos, the IG's Time Gem negs.
Is all I'm saying.
But anyway, that much doesn't even matter in this fight, since regardless of whether or not the time stop would work on 2-A Thanos, the IG's Time Gem negs.
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But why though ? It effected a character who is no different in the time aspect, both not needing it.
Ya sure, I asked if it granted him resistances and I was told no .
Ya sure, I asked if it granted him resistances and I was told no .
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Can Thanos time stop immesurables?MrKingOfNegativity said:
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This is the equivalent of asking why hax wouldn't affect a Low 2C.TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Because immesurable is INFINITELY above infinite speed
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Honestly thinking about it, why aren't void feats immeasurable, if ya can function while time isn't a thing, that would not be infinite or moving while time stabds still, like the speed rating states , since time isn't standing still, time isn't even a thing .
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Because that's not higher dimensional is it?
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Maybe ?
Kinda does suggest ya are above the 4d concept of time .
Kinda does suggest ya are above the 4d concept of time .
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@J-Man:
Going by the logic that Infinites and Immeasurables "don't need time" is like saying a character with 5-D hax can affect an 11-D character because they both "aren't restricted by 4-D space-time".
The Time Gem grants the IG's wearer complete control over time. The logical conclusion is that a simple time-stop would not work on someone with that kind of power, and that it could easily be reversed by them.
Time not existing does not mean that the concept of linear time itself does not exist, much like how being able to traverse an outerversal space doesn't automatically make a character 1-A. Immeasurable requires that you be able to move in a space where linear time as a concept is nonexistent. I believe the mods went over this with each other a while back, but I can't remember the thread in which it was discussed.
@Gargoyle:
As far as affecting Immeasurables, I can't remember for certain. But the IG itself is what made Thanos able to keep up with the likes of Eternity, so logic would say that it should be capable of such. (Though admittedly, "logic" has never been Marvel's strong suit...)
Going by the logic that Infinites and Immeasurables "don't need time" is like saying a character with 5-D hax can affect an 11-D character because they both "aren't restricted by 4-D space-time".
The Time Gem grants the IG's wearer complete control over time. The logical conclusion is that a simple time-stop would not work on someone with that kind of power, and that it could easily be reversed by them.
Time not existing does not mean that the concept of linear time itself does not exist, much like how being able to traverse an outerversal space doesn't automatically make a character 1-A. Immeasurable requires that you be able to move in a space where linear time as a concept is nonexistent. I believe the mods went over this with each other a while back, but I can't remember the thread in which it was discussed.
@Gargoyle:
As far as affecting Immeasurables, I can't remember for certain. But the IG itself is what made Thanos able to keep up with the likes of Eternity, so logic would say that it should be capable of such. (Though admittedly, "logic" has never been Marvel's strong suit...)
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But the problem here is that the only time in question is 4d time .
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And removing said time does not equate to removing the very concept of it.
As a direct analogue, one could theoretically wipe out all of humanity as a species, but such an act would still not erase the very concept of humanity as a species.
As a direct analogue, one could theoretically wipe out all of humanity as a species, but such an act would still not erase the very concept of humanity as a species.
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Ok, but that still doesn't change being above time as a 4d sense,
And if the realm never had time to begin with then it wouldn't of mattered .
And if the realm never had time to begin with then it wouldn't of mattered .
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He isn't above time in the 4-D sense, as he's only equal to someone who moved within erased time, not someone who moved within a realm that was above time as a concept.
The realm of erased time in JoJo isn't conceptually above linear time simply because time itself never existed there. It's still limited by universal range, inside the confines of a multiverse where linear time still exists. In order to properly qualify as a realm where linear time as a concept does not exist, it would have to encompass/transcend the multiverse. Which it doesn't.
In any case, this is starting to stray from the topic of the thread. This sort of thing should be discussed in a CRT, not during the middle of a match.
The realm of erased time in JoJo isn't conceptually above linear time simply because time itself never existed there. It's still limited by universal range, inside the confines of a multiverse where linear time still exists. In order to properly qualify as a realm where linear time as a concept does not exist, it would have to encompass/transcend the multiverse. Which it doesn't.
In any case, this is starting to stray from the topic of the thread. This sort of thing should be discussed in a CRT, not during the middle of a match.
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What ? I mean in general at this point. Like time diesnt exist feats in the totality . Range honestly shouldn't matter, if time wasnt a thing it wasn't a thing .
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Thanos FRA (<- I know how much you LOVE these MrKing)
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^TFW I wasn't even the only person to give reasons why Thanos wins. (Or even the first)
Anyway, a realm that (for all intents and purposes) stays within the confines of a single universe doesn't transcend linear time as a concept. It would have to be 5-D or higher (or 4-D across a multiversal space) in order to do that, because the concept of linear time still exists from the fourth dimension downwards.
Anyway, a realm that (for all intents and purposes) stays within the confines of a single universe doesn't transcend linear time as a concept. It would have to be 5-D or higher (or 4-D across a multiversal space) in order to do that, because the concept of linear time still exists from the fourth dimension downwards.
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And thanos isn't 5d , consudering 5d would be automatically high 2-A.
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He is however 4D
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Yeah, and so is ger (and the 4d kind tuer high 3-A) in the speed department or litterally anyone void feat .
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Ummmmm no?
Living without Time doesn't make you higher dimensional.
Living without Time doesn't make you higher dimensional.
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But I'm talking about speed here strictly.
Thanos is above 4d tine, basically normal time. Not anything higher .
Thanos is above 4d tine, basically normal time. Not anything higher .
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Not really. He's above linear time. And being 4-D doesn't matter when you can travel through higher dimensions, the way the Abstracts can.
He's explicitly swifter than the Abstracts, which are all well into Immeasurable territory.
And before you bring up Low 2-C Eternity, I'm fairly certain that said Abstract has traversed dimensional spaces higher than what has ever been shown inside JoJo.
He's explicitly swifter than the Abstracts, which are all well into Immeasurable territory.
And before you bring up Low 2-C Eternity, I'm fairly certain that said Abstract has traversed dimensional spaces higher than what has ever been shown inside JoJo.
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Yeah, but that exactly what I'm getting at, if time doesnt apply would ya actually not be above linear time ?
Yeah I know that, but how the hell do ya go far into a territory that gets decided upon a simple state of being. Blitzing ither immeasurable I guess but ya wouldn't be any further beyond time than a base line .
Yeah I know that, but how the hell do ya go far into a territory that gets decided upon a simple state of being. Blitzing ither immeasurable I guess but ya wouldn't be any further beyond time than a base line .
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I already explained how time not existing in a realm =/= said realm being above linear time.
IG Thanos being Immeasurable is possible for the same reason that a normal person was able to obtain High 1-B Existence Erasure powers in The Dark Tower; it's due to an amp which explicitly gives him that ability.
IG Thanos being Immeasurable is possible for the same reason that a normal person was able to obtain High 1-B Existence Erasure powers in The Dark Tower; it's due to an amp which explicitly gives him that ability.
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Why though, wouldn't it be better, considering you're not bound by time in either way .
Yeah, I mean that much would be obvious. But that had nkthing to do with my other half .
Yeah, I mean that much would be obvious. But that had nkthing to do with my other half .
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I honestly don't know how to explain it any more clearly.
And the fact that the IG itself is stated and shown to grant its users swifter speed than the Abstracts would mean that he's a good deal over 'baseline' Immeasurable. (Whatever the hell difference that makes in the grand scheme of things...)
Anyway, I'm still not sure what bearing all of this has on the matchup, since there are numerous other reasons why Thanos takes this.
And the fact that the IG itself is stated and shown to grant its users swifter speed than the Abstracts would mean that he's a good deal over 'baseline' Immeasurable. (Whatever the hell difference that makes in the grand scheme of things...)
Anyway, I'm still not sure what bearing all of this has on the matchup, since there are numerous other reasons why Thanos takes this.
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Yeah I'm done , getting kinda redundant now . I'll figure it out eventually .
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