TES dimensions

[Urshani]

1. Isn't the infinite dimensions statement just a statement of infinite ways of viewing life?
2. Even if it is infinitely dimensioned, you need to prove that each dimension is infinitely superior (transcending) to the lower one.

 

[Urshani]

Bump

 

[Shmooply]

Which infinite dimension statement, exactly? There's a few.

 

[Urshani]

Which infinite dimension statement, exactly? There's a few.

Know that there are places beyond Tamriel where the cunning and the wary can go to learn forgotten spells. I speak of the planes of Oblivion. The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands. Some are controlled by the mighty Daedric Princes; others are loosely connected to one minor Daedra Lord or another. On these islands, creatures dwell who possess secrets out of time. Some are there of their own volition, but others are banished there for crimes either heinous or imagined.

this seems more like a statement of 'this plane is really really big'

Vestige: Did you enjoy our travels?Augur of the Obscure: "Did I? Does an oblate cogni-form have infinite angles? Please don't hurt yourself. The answer is yes. It was great. The sights, the smells, the incessant jangle of all your gear on my face. Dream come true, mate!"Augur of the Obscure: "I've got to admit, I'm a little thrown off by the aesthetic, mate. No un-paintings, less than a thousand angles, hardly any transliminal spheroids…. I don't know. I'd give it a soft "adequate." "

infinite spatial dimensions, neat.

"Think now on the wheel. To all things it appertains.Is there anything so sacred as the wheel? Like Tamriel Final, the wheel both moves and does not move. Anuvanna'si. The axle sleeps, while the spokes make haste—round and round in reflective circles. Now, here dwells a Nameless secret, child of the Tribunal: does a thing move when it moves in circles?Motion lies at the heart of the Nirn Ensuing, but not all motion is Nameless. Not all movement earns His blessing.The Divine Metronome calls the first motion "The Motion of Lines." Line-motion is the motion of simple minds—the motion of weak wills and scholars' vanity. "Forward!" it cries! Forward to the fruits of cheap ambition. Forward to the promise of everlasting kingdoms. Forward to the mirage that the sages call "progress." These misguided pioneers venture out into their wild tomorrows, and the tomorrows after that, certain of their worth—their virtue. But what profits a man or mer to gaze deep into a single future? The aims of mortals are narrow, far too narrow! To move forward is to ignore infinite angles in favor of one. It is the act of a beast or a child. The Clockwork God spurns vanity in the guise of courage. These explorers' travels only lead them farther from Tamriel Final. Anuvanna'si.Seht speaks of the second motion only in whispers. "The Pendulum" or "Named Oscillation" is the tic-tock motion—the motion of entropy and false hope. None but the Clockwork God may claim its dark power. With each wide swing it shouts Lorkhan's lie. "Hail, intentions divided! Hail, cursed multitudes!" Do not stand in the Pendulum's path, ash-child. Only the Mainspring Ever-Wound may bear its weight.Last is the reciprocating motion. "The Sublime Piston." The lover's embrace. Like the Father of Mystery, it gives and takes in equal measure. As the bow upon the strings, it calls forth the sublime. As the carpenter's saw, it wrenches back and forth, sundering the Named pursuits of lesser mer. Only a Nameless heart may harness its strength. The artist, the star-counter, and the engineer call it "muse." The truth-blind multitudes call it "destroyer." "

infinite temporal dimensions

nothing implies these are infinitely superior to each other.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

1. Isn't the infinite dimensions statement just a statement of infinite ways of viewing life?
2. Even if it is infinitely dimensioned, you need to prove that each dimension is infinitely superior (transcending) to the lower one.

nop, oblivion is also described as having infinite dimensions

not really, u just need to prove they are higher dimensions and that the word "dimensions" is not use to describe a universe but a higher infinity

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

have a question for his awfulness Lyranth, but I think it concerns more the relationship between some kinds of lesser Daedra than the ranks topic treated here. I hope it will be worth the attenction of your lordship. We all recognize the fierce reptile daedroth, but I've also heard of another unspecified so-called “fire daemon", that appears to be physically related to the daedroth, but it seems to be more intelligent. I've once seen something similar when I came across into the dreaded “Haunter of the Cliffs". An analogous doubt arises about the nasty banekin and the “homunculi" whereof we can read in the “A Hypothetical Treachery" script. Are they the same creatures? And is there a relationship between the dire Nightmare Courser, whereof is said to be the breed of Mehrunes Dagon, and the legendary fire-spitting Hell Hound?
With your grace, I'd want to finally acknowledge what connection there's between all those creatures, that certainly share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion."
- Shanke-Naar Righthorn
Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Your problem, mortal, is exemplified by your words, 'share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion.' There is nothing 'common' about, between, or across the planes of Oblivion—’’’they are the very definition of change and variation, manifesting all possibilities, and validating all understanding and misunderstanding. You seek similarities where there are only differences, a classification of chaos’’’. You think that, because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology. Bah. Reflect on the fact that you have failed to understand a single word of my explanation, and burden me with no more such questions."
"Ah, I see my memospore transmission was a success. You understand why I choose not to appear before a being such as yourself in the flesh. I'm no fool, as was I assume the one who earned you your title. To the questions, then.
Firstly, just how common is it for one of the Kyn to receive a field promotion, as it were? I understand your people operate off a strict military hierarchy, and that constant wars are being fought in Oblivion. This must surely mean that rapid promotions and demotions occur, presumably when a commanding officer is temporarily separated from his body through shameful defeat. Can you enlighten me on that, fearful warrior?
One other thing - your rowdy "cousins" the Xivilai. What are your opinions on them? I've heard they're physically imposing, but are difficult to train as soldiers, and only operate as mercenaries and Auxiliaries of the Princes they serve. Is there any truth to that? Also, who would win in a fight between you and a Xivilai, if you don't mind me asking? I can't resist that question, especially since I'm in a different dimension from yourself currently."
- Legate Cyclenophus of the Bretonic Imperial Restoration Society
Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Though you are a lowly worm, I shall answer both your questions, in hopes that it will infuriate Eis Vuur Warden, so that he will seek you out 'in the flesh' to enact revenge for my blatant favoritism. (It is, after all, what I would do.) Regarding promotions and demotions: a rigid hierarchy such as we Dremora glory in defines the relationship between ranks, but does not dictate what rank an individual must fill. (Except, of course, when it does, but explaining further exceeds the scope of my willingness to answer.) In the service of a great and warlike Master, discorporation of individuals is frequent, but the hierarchy must persist! In such cases change of rank is necessary, that the web of command be maintained.
“Ah, the Xivilai. Are there any Daedra, in all the infinite worlds of Oblivion, more pompous and filled with unwarranted conceit than those impertinent and unruly louts? It is true that their combination of brute strength and low cunning makes them effective agents in certain rare situations, but for most purposes they are sadly unreliable. As you may be aware, our Master's personal guard, the Xivkyn, are the result of experiments with vestigial hybridization in the Vile Laboratory. At first blush they seem acceptable allies, but before we Dremora can fully trust them, we need to see an archaeon or two pass to give us some track record."
The Realms of Oblivion being infinite-sized is also communicated in proper english throughout the series.

Hermaeus Mora’s realm of Apocrypha is stated to be Infinite multiple times (There are other examples as well):

’’’Morian Zenas described to me an endless library, shelves stretching on in every direction, stacks on top of stacks’’’. Pages floated on a mystical wind that he could not feel. Every book had a black cover with no title. He could see no one, but felt the presence of ghosts moving through the stacks, rifling through books, ever searching.
‘’’It was Apocrypha. The home of Hermaeus-Mora, where all forbidden knowledge can be found’’’. I felt a shudder in my mind, but I could not tell if it was my master's or mine.
- The Doors of Oblivion
’’’The infinite archives of Hermaeus Mora are the ultimate treasure. Its innumerable shelves and countless books carry the weight of all knowledge’’’. Therein, the diligent reader can find all that was, all that is, and all that will be.
Followers of the Divines, content in their dark cloisters of ignorance, preach hatred of the Golden Eye. Daedra, they call him: unclean, monstrous, wicked.
We have seen the truth. Knowledge is only as wicked as the one who wields it. Forsaking learning in fear of its misuse is the ultimate sin. It is an unforgivable folly. As a result, mortals have suffered countless centuries of loss.
In Apocrypha, the Golden Eye weeps cold tears at this plague of ignorance. ‘’’Those who walk his halls are truly blessed. Even as their flesh falls away, they are permitted to browse the infinite tomes and scrolls, privy to all mysteries that have ever and will ever exist’’’. It is the most blessed of fates.
We give you praise, Hermaeus Mora. We seek enlightenment, illumination, and a place at your side.
- Apocrypha
Various realms of Oblivion are also described as Infinite-sized in the novel The Infernal City:

”Stay together!” Sul shouted. He took a step, and again the unimaginable sensation, and now they were in utter darkness—but not silence, for all around them were chittering sounds and the staccato scurrying of hundreds of feet.
They were in an infinite palace of colored glass.
They were on an icy plane with a burning sky.
They were standing by a dark red river, and the smell of blood was nearly suffocating.
They were in the deepest forest Attrebus had ever seen.
He was braced for the next transition, but Sul was suddenly swearing.
“What?” Attrebus said. “Where are we? Is this still Oblivion?”
“Yes,” he said “We‟ve been interrupted. He must have sniffed out my spoor and laid a trap.”
Azura's Star is shown to contain an entire reality inside it, and is described as infinite. Azura's Star is merely her artifact, not her realm. This gives an idea to the true scale of the Daedric Planes:

"I have cleansed Azura's Star, the infinite Soul Gem. It is mine to do with as I see fit."
- Dovahkiin's Journal
A Dremora summoned to Nirn also explicitly describes Oblivion as an endless black void containing many infinities.

I grew dizzy as the plane spun around me, nearly fell into a pool of blue plasm, ‘’’and then suddenly felt myself hurled into an endless black void.’’’
‘’’I wasn't alarmed at first, because who hasn't been hurled into an endless black void?’’’ It wasn't until I began to materialize at my destination and got a taste of the air that I had my first misgivings. "I smell ... weakness," I said to myself—and I couldn't have been more right. It was then that I first heard the voice of my Conjurer as he said, "Ah, this one looks fairly robust," and the full horror of my situation broke upon me. For I had been summoned to do the bidding ... of a mortal.
‘’’I turned, aghast, to see who had dared summon me across the infinities to Nirn’’’, and found myself faced with a tall Elf of Summerset
- I was Summoned by a Mortal
However, though impressive, these statements can be said to be misleading, and are nowhere near the true scale of Oblivion. In fact, the Void of Oblivion itself is described as having Infinite Dimensions:

Know that there are places beyond Tamriel where the cunning and the wary can go to learn forgotten spells. I speak of the planes of Oblivion. The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands. Some are controlled by the mighty Daedric Princes; others are loosely connected to one minor Daedra Lord or another. On these islands, creatures dwell who possess secrets out of time. Some are there of their own volition, but others are banished there for crimes either heinous or imagined.
- Rulantaril’s Notes
This statement is most certainly referring to Spatial Dimensions, as it is used to indicate a characteristic of Oblivion itself, rather than something contained by it. There is also the fact that this text calls the Planes of Oblivion “Islands”, and not Dimensions or any other term, so trying to dismiss the text as referring to Universes is out of question here.

There are also other examples of Oblivion being a Higher-Dimensional Expanse, such as the text Liminal Bridges, which states that “Hyperagonal” media is necessary to travel through Mundus and Oblivion, and to open portals between both realms that last more than an infinitesimally-small amount of time

Transliminal passage of quickened objects or entities without the persistent agency of hyperagonal media is not possible, and even if possible, would result in instantaneous retromission of the transported referents. Only a transpontine circumpenetration of the limen will result in transits of greater than infinitesimal duration.
Though other hyperagonal media may exist in theory, the only known transliminal artifact capable of sustained transpontine circumpenetration is the sigil stone. A sigil stone is a specimen of pre-Mythic quasi-crystalline morpholith that has been transformed into an extra-dimensional artifact through the arcane inscription of a daedric sigil. Though some common morpholiths like soul gems may be found in nature, the exotic morpholiths used to make sigil stones occur only in pocket voids of Oblivion, and cannot be prospected or harvested without daedric assistance.
Therefore, since both the morpholiths and the daedric sigils required for hyperagonal media cannot be obtained without traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords, it is necessary that a transliminal mechanic cultivate a working knowledge of conjuration -- though purpose-built enchantments may be substituted if the mechanic has sufficient invocatory skill. Traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords is an esoteric but well-established practice, and lies outside the compass of this treatise.
- Liminal Bridges
The Augur of the Obscure also makes references to higher-angles in his dialogue. As he also speaks about perceiving higher-dimensional space, there's no doubt what he's referring to:

Vestige: Did you enjoy our travels?
Augur of the Obscure: "Did I? Does an oblate cogni-form have infinite angles? Please don't hurt yourself. The answer is yes. It was great. The sights, the smells, the incessant jangle of all your gear on my face. Dream come true, mate!"
Augur of the Obscure: "I've got to admit, I'm a little thrown off by the aesthetic, mate. No un-paintings, less than a thousand angles, hardly any transliminal spheroids…. I don't know. I'd give it a soft "adequate." "
Travelling to a Daedric Plane is also described as falling through all directions at once:

The sensation of traveling to a daedric real is “like falling – not down, but in all directions at once. The moons were gone, and in their place a ceiling of smoke and ash. Stifling heat surrounded them and the air stank with sulfur and hot iron. They stood on black lava, and lakes of fire stretched off before them.”
- The Infernal City

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

if u have more questions i would suggest asking @Ultima_Reality and @Matthew_Schroeder since they are the one that where in charge of the verse

 

[Catzlaflame]

if u have more questions i would suggest asking @Ultima_Reality and @Matthew_Schroeder since they are the one that where in charge of the verse

Random question is it true TES is outdated? And if so what parts are outdated ?

 

[Urshani]

have a question for his awfulness Lyranth, but I think it concerns more the relationship between some kinds of lesser Daedra than the ranks topic treated here. I hope it will be worth the attenction of your lordship. We all recognize the fierce reptile daedroth, but I've also heard of another unspecified so-called “fire daemon", that appears to be physically related to the daedroth, but it seems to be more intelligent. I've once seen something similar when I came across into the dreaded “Haunter of the Cliffs". An analogous doubt arises about the nasty banekin and the “homunculi" whereof we can read in the “A Hypothetical Treachery" script. Are they the same creatures? And is there a relationship between the dire Nightmare Courser, whereof is said to be the breed of Mehrunes Dagon, and the legendary fire-spitting Hell Hound?
With your grace, I'd want to finally acknowledge what connection there's between all those creatures, that certainly share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion."
- Shanke-Naar Righthorn
Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Your problem, mortal, is exemplified by your words, 'share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion.' There is nothing 'common' about, between, or across the planes of Oblivion—’’’they are the very definition of change and variation, manifesting all possibilities, and validating all understanding and misunderstanding. You seek similarities where there are only differences, a classification of chaos’’’. You think that, because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology. Bah. Reflect on the fact that you have failed to understand a single word of my explanation, and burden me with no more such questions."
"Ah, I see my memospore transmission was a success. You understand why I choose not to appear before a being such as yourself in the flesh. I'm no fool, as was I assume the one who earned you your title. To the questions, then.
Firstly, just how common is it for one of the Kyn to receive a field promotion, as it were? I understand your people operate off a strict military hierarchy, and that constant wars are being fought in Oblivion. This must surely mean that rapid promotions and demotions occur, presumably when a commanding officer is temporarily separated from his body through shameful defeat. Can you enlighten me on that, fearful warrior?
One other thing - your rowdy "cousins" the Xivilai. What are your opinions on them? I've heard they're physically imposing, but are difficult to train as soldiers, and only operate as mercenaries and Auxiliaries of the Princes they serve. Is there any truth to that? Also, who would win in a fight between you and a Xivilai, if you don't mind me asking? I can't resist that question, especially since I'm in a different dimension from yourself currently."
- Legate Cyclenophus of the Bretonic Imperial Restoration Society
Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Though you are a lowly worm, I shall answer both your questions, in hopes that it will infuriate Eis Vuur Warden, so that he will seek you out 'in the flesh' to enact revenge for my blatant favoritism. (It is, after all, what I would do.) Regarding promotions and demotions: a rigid hierarchy such as we Dremora glory in defines the relationship between ranks, but does not dictate what rank an individual must fill. (Except, of course, when it does, but explaining further exceeds the scope of my willingness to answer.) In the service of a great and warlike Master, discorporation of individuals is frequent, but the hierarchy must persist! In such cases change of rank is necessary, that the web of command be maintained.
“Ah, the Xivilai. Are there any Daedra, in all the infinite worlds of Oblivion, more pompous and filled with unwarranted conceit than those impertinent and unruly louts? It is true that their combination of brute strength and low cunning makes them effective agents in certain rare situations, but for most purposes they are sadly unreliable. As you may be aware, our Master's personal guard, the Xivkyn, are the result of experiments with vestigial hybridization in the Vile Laboratory. At first blush they seem acceptable allies, but before we Dremora can fully trust them, we need to see an archaeon or two pass to give us some track record."
The Realms of Oblivion being infinite-sized is also communicated in proper english throughout the series.

Hermaeus Mora’s realm of Apocrypha is stated to be Infinite multiple times (There are other examples as well):

’’’Morian Zenas described to me an endless library, shelves stretching on in every direction, stacks on top of stacks’’’. Pages floated on a mystical wind that he could not feel. Every book had a black cover with no title. He could see no one, but felt the presence of ghosts moving through the stacks, rifling through books, ever searching.
‘’’It was Apocrypha. The home of Hermaeus-Mora, where all forbidden knowledge can be found’’’. I felt a shudder in my mind, but I could not tell if it was my master's or mine.
- The Doors of Oblivion
’’’The infinite archives of Hermaeus Mora are the ultimate treasure. Its innumerable shelves and countless books carry the weight of all knowledge’’’. Therein, the diligent reader can find all that was, all that is, and all that will be.
Followers of the Divines, content in their dark cloisters of ignorance, preach hatred of the Golden Eye. Daedra, they call him: unclean, monstrous, wicked.
We have seen the truth. Knowledge is only as wicked as the one who wields it. Forsaking learning in fear of its misuse is the ultimate sin. It is an unforgivable folly. As a result, mortals have suffered countless centuries of loss.
In Apocrypha, the Golden Eye weeps cold tears at this plague of ignorance. ‘’’Those who walk his halls are truly blessed. Even as their flesh falls away, they are permitted to browse the infinite tomes and scrolls, privy to all mysteries that have ever and will ever exist’’’. It is the most blessed of fates.
We give you praise, Hermaeus Mora. We seek enlightenment, illumination, and a place at your side.
- Apocrypha
Various realms of Oblivion are also described as Infinite-sized in the novel The Infernal City:

”Stay together!” Sul shouted. He took a step, and again the unimaginable sensation, and now they were in utter darkness—but not silence, for all around them were chittering sounds and the staccato scurrying of hundreds of feet.
They were in an infinite palace of colored glass.
They were on an icy plane with a burning sky.
They were standing by a dark red river, and the smell of blood was nearly suffocating.
They were in the deepest forest Attrebus had ever seen.
He was braced for the next transition, but Sul was suddenly swearing.
“What?” Attrebus said. “Where are we? Is this still Oblivion?”
“Yes,” he said “We‟ve been interrupted. He must have sniffed out my spoor and laid a trap.”
Azura's Star is shown to contain an entire reality inside it, and is described as infinite. Azura's Star is merely her artifact, not her realm. This gives an idea to the true scale of the Daedric Planes:

"I have cleansed Azura's Star, the infinite Soul Gem. It is mine to do with as I see fit."
- Dovahkiin's Journal
A Dremora summoned to Nirn also explicitly describes Oblivion as an endless black void containing many infinities.

I grew dizzy as the plane spun around me, nearly fell into a pool of blue plasm, ‘’’and then suddenly felt myself hurled into an endless black void.’’’
‘’’I wasn't alarmed at first, because who hasn't been hurled into an endless black void?’’’ It wasn't until I began to materialize at my destination and got a taste of the air that I had my first misgivings. "I smell ... weakness," I said to myself—and I couldn't have been more right. It was then that I first heard the voice of my Conjurer as he said, "Ah, this one looks fairly robust," and the full horror of my situation broke upon me. For I had been summoned to do the bidding ... of a mortal.
‘’’I turned, aghast, to see who had dared summon me across the infinities to Nirn’’’, and found myself faced with a tall Elf of Summerset
- I was Summoned by a Mortal
However, though impressive, these statements can be said to be misleading, and are nowhere near the true scale of Oblivion. In fact, the Void of Oblivion itself is described as having Infinite Dimensions:

Know that there are places beyond Tamriel where the cunning and the wary can go to learn forgotten spells. I speak of the planes of Oblivion. The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands. Some are controlled by the mighty Daedric Princes; others are loosely connected to one minor Daedra Lord or another. On these islands, creatures dwell who possess secrets out of time. Some are there of their own volition, but others are banished there for crimes either heinous or imagined.
- Rulantaril’s Notes
This statement is most certainly referring to Spatial Dimensions, as it is used to indicate a characteristic of Oblivion itself, rather than something contained by it. There is also the fact that this text calls the Planes of Oblivion “Islands”, and not Dimensions or any other term, so trying to dismiss the text as referring to Universes is out of question here.

There are also other examples of Oblivion being a Higher-Dimensional Expanse, such as the text Liminal Bridges, which states that “Hyperagonal” media is necessary to travel through Mundus and Oblivion, and to open portals between both realms that last more than an infinitesimally-small amount of time

Transliminal passage of quickened objects or entities without the persistent agency of hyperagonal media is not possible, and even if possible, would result in instantaneous retromission of the transported referents. Only a transpontine circumpenetration of the limen will result in transits of greater than infinitesimal duration.
Though other hyperagonal media may exist in theory, the only known transliminal artifact capable of sustained transpontine circumpenetration is the sigil stone. A sigil stone is a specimen of pre-Mythic quasi-crystalline morpholith that has been transformed into an extra-dimensional artifact through the arcane inscription of a daedric sigil. Though some common morpholiths like soul gems may be found in nature, the exotic morpholiths used to make sigil stones occur only in pocket voids of Oblivion, and cannot be prospected or harvested without daedric assistance.
Therefore, since both the morpholiths and the daedric sigils required for hyperagonal media cannot be obtained without traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords, it is necessary that a transliminal mechanic cultivate a working knowledge of conjuration -- though purpose-built enchantments may be substituted if the mechanic has sufficient invocatory skill. Traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords is an esoteric but well-established practice, and lies outside the compass of this treatise.
- Liminal Bridges
The Augur of the Obscure also makes references to higher-angles in his dialogue. As he also speaks about perceiving higher-dimensional space, there's no doubt what he's referring to:

Vestige: Did you enjoy our travels?
Augur of the Obscure: "Did I? Does an oblate cogni-form have infinite angles? Please don't hurt yourself. The answer is yes. It was great. The sights, the smells, the incessant jangle of all your gear on my face. Dream come true, mate!"
Augur of the Obscure: "I've got to admit, I'm a little thrown off by the aesthetic, mate. No un-paintings, less than a thousand angles, hardly any transliminal spheroids…. I don't know. I'd give it a soft "adequate." "
Travelling to a Daedric Plane is also described as falling through all directions at once:

The sensation of traveling to a daedric real is “like falling – not down, but in all directions at once. The moons were gone, and in their place a ceiling of smoke and ash. Stifling heat surrounded them and the air stank with sulfur and hot iron. They stood on black lava, and lakes of fire stretched off before them.”
- The Infernal

i mean those are infinite d. but are those d higher than one another

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Random question is it true TES is outdated? And if so what parts?

profiles, they might as well have spider webs on them.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i mean those are infinite d. but are those d higher than one another

higher than 6D and up, which is why is considered a H1B realm

also FYI u dont need to necessarily prove each is higher than the other
1. u need to prove there is an infinite hierarchy
2. u need to prove they are at least higher than 4D, so 5D and up etc.

 

[Urshani]

higher than 6D and up, which is why is considered a H1B realm

also FYI u dont need to necessarily prove each is higher than the other
1. u need to prove there is an infinite hierarchy
2. u need to prove they are at least higher than 4D, so 5D and up etc.

the entire point of higher dimensions is that they are infinitely superior. the only way it can be high 1-B is that the verse explains higher dimensioned beings always win against lower dimensioned beings.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

the entire point of higher dimensions is that they are infinitely superior. the only way it can be high 1-B is that the verse explains higher dimensioned beings always win against lower dimensioned beings.

which is the case with oblivion and again u can basically classify a realm as H1B as long as there are statement of being infinite and the dimensions being talked bout are spatial-temporal dimensions etc.

fun fact: u can even reach 1-A and above even if ur verse does not have infinite dimension

 

[Urshani]

which is the case with oblivion and again u can basically classify a realm as H1B as long as there are statement of being infinite and the dimensions being talked bout are spatial-temporal dimensions etc.

fun fact: u can even reach 1-A and above even if ur verse does not have infinite dimension

As of now, we do not consider higher-dimensional constructs as automatically having infinitely greater power than lower-dimensional equivalents until further context as to their nature compared to lower-dimensional entities is provided by a work of fiction. Hence, they must either be placed at [B]Unknown[/B] or simply reasonably scale relative to their best feats, provided they are not [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Outlier']outliers[/URL] or something of the sort, of course.

[B]However, higher-dimensionality is indeed a valid way to jump unto higher tiers if the higher-dimensional being/object in question is either treated as having infinitely more power than lower-dimensional ones specifically because of their dimensionality or is provably infinite, in which case it is equated to the size of the entire n-dimensional [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_coordinate_space']real coordinate space[/URL] in which it resides. See [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Higher-Dimensional_Existence']this page[/URL] for more information.[/B]

Furthermore, the higher bounds of the system make use of infinite cardinal numbers as a metric to accurately quantify and categorize meta-hierarchies beyond even infinitely-layered ones. As such, it is advisable to read [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_Explanation_Page']this explanation[/URL] as well.

For general questions regarding the Tiering System as a whole, it is advisable to read [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ']this page[/URL] as well.

does TES fit the bolded part, i need either scans or excerpts

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

As of now, we do not consider higher-dimensional constructs as automatically having infinitely greater power than lower-dimensional equivalents until further context as to their nature compared to lower-dimensional entities is provided by a work of fiction. Hence, they must either be placed at [B]Unknown[/B] or simply reasonably scale relative to their best feats, provided they are not [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Outlier']outliers[/URL] or something of the sort, of course.

[B]However, higher-dimensionality is indeed a valid way to jump unto higher tiers if the higher-dimensional being/object in question is either treated as having infinitely more power than lower-dimensional ones specifically because of their dimensionality or is provably infinite, in which case it is equated to the size of the entire n-dimensional [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_coordinate_space']real coordinate space[/URL] in which it resides. See [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Higher-Dimensional_Existence']this page[/URL] for more information.[/B]

Furthermore, the higher bounds of the system make use of infinite cardinal numbers as a metric to accurately quantify and categorize meta-hierarchies beyond even infinitely-layered ones. As such, it is advisable to read [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_Explanation_Page']this explanation[/URL] as well.

For general questions regarding the Tiering System as a whole, it is advisable to read [URL='https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ']this page[/URL] as well.

does TES fit the bolded part, i need either scans or excerpts

considering the ones that did the whole tier system and that page u are quoting also did TES and its scaling
u can ask him directly

"treated as having infinitely more power than lower-dimensional ones specifically because of their dimensionality or is provably infinite"
the answer would be yes, Nirn is a 4D construct, Mundus a Higher D multiverse and oblivion is greater than mundus with its higher infinities

 

[Urshani]

considering the ones that did the whole tier system and that page u are quoting also did TES and its scaling
u can ask him directly

"treated as having infinitely more power than lower-dimensional ones specifically because of their dimensionality or is provably infinite"
the answer would be yes, Nirn is a 4D construct, Mundus a Higher D multiverse and oblivion is greater than mundus with its higher infinities

excerpt?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

excerpt?

for nirn being 4D and mundus higher D?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

also to make things easier

The Elder Scrolls: Cosmology & Lore

Hello everyone. Hope you're doing well. Over six months ago I set myself the endeavor of learning the Lore and Cosmology of The Elder Scrolls universe for the purposes of revising its profiles on the Wiki, which were on a truly awful state. On the very same day, I published this blog in its...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Elder Scrolls: Metaphysics & Philosophy

Hello again, everyone. Hope you're doing well. In my latest Elder Scrolls Blog, where I talked about the setting's general cosmology and lore, I promised that there would eventually be a follow-up blog, where I would discuss the truly complicated, metaphysical concepts featured in the series...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Urshani]

for nirn being 4D and mundus higher D?

TES having dimensions that are infinitely beyond the last. 'Higher D' statements won't cut it, i need something like 'each dimension renders the one below like fiction' or 'each dimension is infinitely beyond the last, in an ascending hierarchy.'

I don't find that in the two blog posts.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

also to make things easier

The Elder Scrolls: Cosmology & Lore

Hello everyone. Hope you're doing well. Over six months ago I set myself the endeavor of learning the Lore and Cosmology of The Elder Scrolls universe for the purposes of revising its profiles on the Wiki, which were on a truly awful state. On the very same day, I published this blog in its...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Elder Scrolls: Metaphysics & Philosophy

Hello again, everyone. Hope you're doing well. In my latest Elder Scrolls Blog, where I talked about the setting's general cosmology and lore, I promised that there would eventually be a follow-up blog, where I would discuss the truly complicated, metaphysical concepts featured in the series...

vsbattles.fandom.com

here u have the blogs from the people that made TES, their tiers and the people that rework the tier system

https://vsbattles.com/members/ultima_reality.8232/ one of the people that did TES and rework the tier system along with what u quoted

 

[Urshani]

here u have the blogs from the people that made TES, their tiers and the people that rework the tier system

i still don't see how it's infinitely higher, please just give it to me simple by giving me an excerpt.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Even if it is infinitely dimensioned, you need to prove that each dimension is infinitely superior (transcending) to the lower one.

Not exactly. Having a statement which explicitly indicates that a higher-dimensional thing is infinitely greater than a lower-dimensional one in power is useful, yes, and allows you to gain a tier from dimensionality alone, but there are other ways to do that, too. To quote the FAQ page:

One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

Which Oblivion does qualify for.

1. Isn't the infinite dimensions statement just a statement of infinite ways of viewing life?

Are you referring to Sotha Sil's teachings shown in Truth in Sequence? If so, you'd be right in a way, yes. The statement itself is moreso referring to how Mortals as a whole are bound by a linear direction of time, and doomed to only ever look upon a single future, while the Gods are unbound by this, and can peer into infinitely-many angles instead, hence why Sotha Sil allegedly condemns this as "the Motion of Lines."

This lines up with the Trial at Hogithum Hall, where Vivec states that the non-linear concept of time in which Gods like him operate is nonsensical and impossible to think about in three dimensions alone:

I will leave it to others to find where I have written all this before. But when Vehk the mortal reached into the Heart, he ceased to be anything except for what he wished to be. The axis erupted. There was an exact cracking, an instant of pure Aurbis, his hands burnt black by that ever-nil of static change, and Vivec the god who had never been had always been. A whole universe swelled up to legitimize his throne... as the old universe, where Vehk the mortal still lapped up Godsblood, warped itself to accept its new equivalent. And like all things magical it simply could not happen, could not Be. Red Mountain was the intersection of the Is-Is Not as it was of old, its center point, and it did not hold. And so the Dragon, having broken, saw fit to heal, turning into the world you know. Except now Vivec the God was alive before his own birth, which had, in fact, really happened in the death of the last universe. Hard to grasp in three-dimensional thought? Why, of course it is. And so that is why some semblance of my anguished personal reconciliation found its way into my own scripture. Why did I leave the Nerevarine two accounts of his death, one that I could have easily erased from the minds of my own people? Because he is Hortator, GHARTOK PADHOME AE ALTADOON DUNMERI, my lord and king in this world and the last, and as Vehk and Vehk I murdered him, then raised him, then taught to him to know, and so would I have it when he came to me at last that he decide. I give you this as Vivec.

 

[Bernkastelll]

manda a braba

 

[Urshani]

Which Oblivion does qualify for.

excerpt?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

excerpt?

like Ultima said

"Having a statement which explicitly indicates that a higher-dimensional thing is infinitely greater than a lower-dimensional one in power is useful, yes, and allows you to gain a tier from dimensionality alone, but there are other ways to do that, too."

And oblivion qualifies for: "One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."


in simple words, u dont need a statement of each dimensions being above the previous one

 

[Ultima_Reality]

excerpt?

That's a pretty basic thing about the cosmology. Mundus and other lower-dimensional realms are embedded within the void of Oblivion, which is the void between the spokes of the Wheel of the Aurbis, and a larger infinity in comparision to them.

Cosmology — The Imperial Library

How space works in the Elder Scrolls universe

www.imperial-library.info

The planets are the gods and the planes of the gods, which is the same thing. That they appear as spherical heavenly bodies is a visual phenomena caused by mortal mental stress. Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. Planets are magical and impossible. The eight planets correspond to the Eight Divines. They are all present on the Dwarven Orrery, along with the mortal planet, Nirn.

Space is the interpretation of Oblivion, which is black and empty and surrounds the mortal plane. Space is infinite, but it acts just like a planet, in that Oblivion is 'surrounded' by Aetherius. You can see Aetherius by the stars.

And individual Planes of Oblivion can be either higher or lower-dimensional, too, if the Daedra ruling over them so desires. For example, Fa-Nuit-Hen directly states that his realm only appears as three-dimensional and bound by cause and consequence because he chooses to make it comfortable and welcoming to mortals:

Lore:Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius Answer Your Questions 2 - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says, "Again I interrupt! The mighty Fa-Nuit-Hen, a servant of Hermaeus Mora? By no means! I am a scion of Boethiah, a sovereign demiprince, and I serve no will but my own! As for time, cause, and consequence, let's just say that the laws of the Dragon God do not apply to Oblivion. Oh, it's useful to adopt the trappings of duration when dealing with mortals, so you'll find Maelstrom quite familiar in that regard. We know how lost you feel away from the hand of Akatosh! Maelstrom is far easier to comprehend than Apocrypha—and much more generous in that we award victorious competitors with fabulous prizes!"

Lore:Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius Answer Your Questions - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says, "Ah! The 'Weir Gate' leads, or will lead, to the Slipstream Realm where you mortals have or will establish your Battlespire Academy. Regarding the 'Slipstream' designation: mortals, of course, can only perceive Oblivion and the astronomical regions of the Mundus in terms of their own frames of reference. They 'see' only what they can comprehend, and often that isn't much. Furthermore, what they do comprehend often seems to drive them insane, though the rate of mental deterioration varies with individuals. Twice upon a time, the Imperial Mananauts regularly ventured beyond Nirn, and in doing so learned that the mortal mind is best acclimated to other realities by gentle degrees. This is one of the reasons why Maelstrom seems to resemble aspects of your world—I wished it to be mortal-friendly, or at least friendly enough for mortals to experience my arenas without distorting their mentalities! Anyway, the Mananauts will learn that it's best to train for Oblivion in a transition zone, a place where differing truths can co-exist without conceptual abrasion. At certain points, transliminal forces balance in standing waves, and these regions are designated 'Slipstream Realms.' We haven't actually been to Battlespire yet, have we, my Tutor? Would you please remember forward for me to tell the Quidnunc about this 'Weir Gate'?"

And yet, all of these alterations are still done by harnessing the Chaotic Creatia (raw, mythic energy) which floats around and comprises Oblivion, since a major aspect of the Daedra's existence is that anything they make is an extension of them, and manipulated by harnessing the essence of Oblivion itself, instead of being altered with no mechanism or created Ex Nihilo.

Loveletter From the Fifth Era, The True Purpose of Tamriel — The Imperial Library

Instructions for avoiding the apocalypse

www.imperial-library.info

Another subcreation happened to the wheels of the etada, a shore that all of creation crashed against, the terminus of limits known as Oblivion. An echo of the Void before but unalike, many spirits fled here and came to power by merely harnessing the impossibility of Limit+All.

Aetherius to Oblivion: creation to destruction.

Lore:Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

Furthermore, we have long known from the Daedra themselves that their bodies are formed from the very stuff of chaos, the "creatia" of Oblivion, a shapeless but energetic material that accretes around a vestige until it conforms to the morphotype's inherent pattern.

Back on Mundus I had naively envisioned this creatia as some sort of misty, amorphous material swirling in a void somewhere. After our arrival in Coldharbour, it was some time before I realized that its ubiquitous pools of blue slime, the substance we've come to call "Azure Plasm," was in fact the form that creatia takes upon this plane. By extension, I reasoned that chaotic creatia takes a different but planar-appropriate form in every realm of Oblivion—and this theory was later confirmed for me by the rogue Xivilai known as the Sojourner, who has had direct experience of numerous planes of existence.

A few years ago I managed to travel to the Soul Cairn. I saw many frightening new things, tasted new plants, listened to the saddening to stories of hopeless souls, and possibly even saw an undead dragon, but what piqued my interest the most was the existence of the area itself. The realm was considerably large, and when I met a large soul gem-like Ideal Master, they referred to themselves as "one of the Makers".

My question is how these mysterious beings created such a place, and why they did so. I would have asked one of them, but the last time I saw one was when I found a shard of an Ideal Master in a nobleman's chest.

–Cyan Fargothil of Seyda Neen"

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says, "Wasn't I just talking about that place? I believe I was—but now, I have moved on! Riparius, old friend, I leave this one to you."

Tutor Riparius says, "But of course! Perhaps I can shed a bit more light on the subject. Long ago, as you reckon such things, the Ideal Masters were an early order of sorcerers who practiced necromancy, trafficking in souls, great, small, and fragmentary. They became very powerful, and eventually found their physical forms to be unacceptably weak and limiting. By means which I shall not articulate, they transcended those forms and became beings of soul-energy. They entered Oblivion as immortals, selected an area of chaotic creatia, and crafted it into a pocket realm ideal for their purposes as soul merchants. They dubbed this pocket the Soul Cairn and, pleased with themselves, adopted the name Ideal Masters as a title."

So, regardless of whatever number of dimensions a Daedra decides their plane should be, it'll still be fueled by Oblivion itself and exist as a subset of it. Which pretty much fulfills the criterion I copy-pasted up there.

 

[Urshani]

That's a pretty basic thing about the cosmology. Mundus and other lower-dimensional realms are embedded within the void of Oblivion, which is the void between the spokes of the Wheel of the Aurbis, and a larger infinity in comparision to them.

Cosmology — The Imperial Library

How space works in the Elder Scrolls universe

www.imperial-library.info

And individual Planes of Oblivion can be either higher or lower-dimensional, too, if the Daedra ruling over them so desires. For example, Fa-Nuit-Hen directly states that his realm only appears as three-dimensional and bound by cause and consequence because he chooses to make it comfortable and welcoming to mortals:

Lore:Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius Answer Your Questions 2 - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

Lore:Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius Answer Your Questions - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

And yet, all of these alterations are still done by harnessing the Chaotic Creatia (raw, mythic energy) which floats around and comprises Oblivion, since a major aspect of the Daedra's existence is that anything they make is an extension of them, and manipulated by harnessing the essence of Oblivion itself, instead of being altered with no mechanism or created Ex Nihilo.

Loveletter From the Fifth Era, The True Purpose of Tamriel — The Imperial Library

Instructions for avoiding the apocalypse

www.imperial-library.info

Lore:Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

So, regardless of whatever number of dimensions a Daedra decides their plane should be, it'll still be fueled by Oblivion itself and exist as a subset of it. Which pretty much fulfills the criterion I copy-pasted up there.

pfppptft

ok you convinced me you can close this thread.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Alrighty, then.