Tenebris 2-B Upgrade

[Richard5128pm]

Do you need any pages unlocked? If not, then yeah, we can close this.

Actually all sf profiles are lock-free, none of them are locked. So I guess this can get closed now.
Also, are you okay with "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher", or is it just "At least Low 2-C"? Since we're lowballing him, he could be higher, so adding "possibly higher" would do good?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Actually all sf profiles are lock-free, none of them are locked. So I guess this can get closed now.
Also, are you okay with "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher", or is it just "At least Low 2-C"? Since we're lowballing him, he could be higher, so adding "possibly higher" would do good?

y'know what

Sure, I'll grant "possibly Higher". Let me know when all is done and I'll close the thread.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Sure thing.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Let me know when all is done and I'll close the thread.

His profile is updated, you can check it out. All underworld profiles (around 20 of em) need to be changed now, as they all scale to tenebris, I'll update them later, but yeah, as for now this thread is good to be closed.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a question:

Was it truly accepted here by our staff to upgrade ALL of the Shadow Fight characters from "At most High 6-A" to "At least Low 2-C"?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Karcer_(Shadow_Fight)?curid=4093585&diff=8513589&oldid=8502220

 

[Richard5128pm]

Was it truly accepted here by our staff to upgrade ALL of the Shadow Fight characters from "At most High 6-A" to "At least Low 2-C"?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Karcer_(Shadow_Fight)?curid=4093585&diff=8513589&oldid=8502220

Not all shadow fight characters, only for the underworld characters.

As for the other underworld characters (like volcano, megalith, fatum, vortex), they too would have 2-B level AP via powescaling (keeping up with Shadow, who defeated Tenebris in battle).

Here, I stated it at the start of the thread. Underworld characters get their AP scaled from Tenebris. All underworld profiles are listed here at Shadow Fight (Verse)

 

[Antvasima]

And which staff members accepted that change?

 

[Richard5128pm]

And which staff members accepted that change?

Every staff who agreed with Low 2-C..? You can also ask bambu or DDM, this CRT isn't just for Tenebris, it is for all underworld characters who scale from him, as I pointed at the start of the thread.
Even before this CRT, Volcano was scaled to Tenebris, and Karcer was scaled to volcano ("At most High 6-A" is very outdated for Karcer, it was supposed to be changed to 4-B on 23rd Dec 2021, but it wasn't)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just a question:

Was it truly accepted here by our staff to upgrade ALL of the Shadow Fight characters from "At most High 6-A" to "At least Low 2-C"?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Karcer_(Shadow_Fight)?curid=4093585&diff=8513589&oldid=8502220

I think it's a dicey ass change and requires some baseline assumptions, and I don't know which characters scale to which, but yeah. If you know something to counter it, I'm happy to hear it, this one is... tenuous.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

The idea is that throughout the story of Underworld, Shadow does not undergo any power-ups in the story to imply that he reached Tenebris' power level right before fighting him. I assume Richard means to say that Shadow was on Tenerbis' level all along (At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher), and so with this he scales the rest of the Eternals at Tenebris' level, albeit lower into "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" since Tenebris is still leagues above them in-lore.

My issue with this change is that the scan(s) being used [1, 2, 3] to get Tenebris to "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" tier clearly implies that a human like Shadow wouldn't be capable of tanking the godly, reality-breaking attacks of Tenebris. Tenebris deliberately didn't use his full, godly strength against Shadow because he would unintentionally destroy reality in doing so. So clearly Tenerbis never used "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" attacks against Shadow, otherwise we would've seen actual visual damage done to the world around them from said attacks.

Okay, so Tenebris never used "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" attacks, sure. But what about his Durability? A character can choose to pull their punches, but can they choose to pull their durability? I assume not, especially when it's in their interest to not be defeated (such as in Tenebris' case). So Shadow harms (and defeats) Tenerbis via physical attacks. Does this make Shadow "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" tier? Because remember, attacks on this level are something Tenebris deliberately avoids making exactly because they would destroy reality. So if Shadow was casually throwing "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" punches at Tenerbis, shouldn't we see visual damage done to the world around them? I'm curious what the mods here have to say about this.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Yes, it's the durability part that was used in this scaling. Strength = Durability and shadow can harm Tenebris, and it's the same exact shadow who fought volcano and all the other Underworld characters, not to mention he is also stated to be the most powerful creation of his universe in wog.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that @Dashio_Tessai seems to make sense here.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Okay, so Tenebris never used "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" attacks, sure. But what about his Durability? A character can choose to pull their punches, but can they choose to pull their durability? I assume not, especially when it's in their interest to not be defeated (such as in Tenebris' case). So Shadow harms (and defeats) Tenerbis via physical attacks. Does this make Shadow "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" tier? Because remember, attacks on this level are something Tenebris deliberately avoids making exactly because they would destroy reality. So if Shadow was casually throwing "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" punches at Tenerbis, shouldn't we see visual damage done to the world around them? I'm curious what the mods here have to say about this.

I have possibly explanation for this, it's not like shadow was strong enough to completely destroy Tenebris' body in one blow, but only enough to defeat him in a lengthy melee combat, so could it be that shadow was exerting an AP somewhat similar to it which it doesn't affect the world around him drastically, given even "Low 2-C" is a broad tier. But I'm curious about what the mods have to say about this, so that we can conclude.

 

[Antvasima]

The idea is that throughout the story of Underworld, Shadow does not undergo any power-ups in the story to imply that he reached Tenebris' power level right before fighting him. I assume Richard means to say that Shadow was on Tenerbis' level all along (At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher), and so with this he scales the rest of the Eternals at Tenebris' level, albeit lower into "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" since Tenebris is still leagues above them in-lore.

My issue with this change is that the scan(s) being used [1, 2, 3] to get Tenebris to "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" tier clearly implies that a human like Shadow wouldn't be capable of tanking the godly, reality-breaking attacks of Tenebris. Tenebris deliberately didn't use his full, godly strength against Shadow because he would unintentionally destroy reality in doing so. So clearly Tenerbis never used "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" attacks against Shadow, otherwise we would've seen actual visual damage done to the world around them from said attacks.

Okay, so Tenebris never used "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" attacks, sure. But what about his Durability? A character can choose to pull their punches, but can they choose to pull their durability? I assume not, especially when it's in their interest to not be defeated (such as in Tenebris' case). So Shadow harms (and defeats) Tenerbis via physical attacks. Does this make Shadow "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" tier? Because remember, attacks on this level are something Tenebris deliberately avoids making exactly because they would destroy reality. So if Shadow was casually throwing "At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher" punches at Tenerbis, shouldn't we see visual damage done to the world around them? I'm curious what the mods here have to say about this.

@Mr. Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus @GarrixianXD

Based on the above arguments, I think that these revisions should be undone or greatly modified.

@Dashio_Tessai

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Honestly I suppose this is a clear example of in-verse powerscaling logic not being wholly compatible with how powerscaling is done on this wiki.

I'd find it weird for Tenebris to not be rated at least at Low 2-C, given the blatant description in that scan that claims he could easily pull off attacks at such scale, if not higher via interpretation.

About Shadow, though... I think an important detail that I should mention is that the fight between Shadow and Tenebris is not an actual 1v1. Because at the start of the Underworld story, it is stated by Sensei that Shadow will be followed in battle by thousands of warriors from across Earth against the Eternals. This is translated in gameplay by making the fights against the Eternals as co-op raid-boss sessions, although the number of players that get to fight the Eternals in one session is obviously lowered down for game stability (for instance, Tenebris' fight requires the player (Shadow) and 5 other players (unnamed warriors) in order for it to take place).

Soo I assume we should technically take Tenerbis' full Durability (Low 2-C, possibly higher), and split the AP necessary to defeat him evenly across "thousands" of warriors + Shadow. Issue is though, we don't even know how much energy you'd need to destroy a Low 2-C (possibly higher) structure, so how do we divide that? So then mayhaps a "Low 2-C, possibly higher" rating that is thousands of levels low into this tier for Shadow (and the other warriors)?

Again, I'm waiting on what mods have to say on this.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that you seem to make sense here.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Low 2-C should be good I suppose.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dashio_Tessai

So what do you think should be done here exactly?

Also, should we keep both of the current Shadow Fight content revision threads open or keep the discussion contained to one of them only?

Low 1-C Upgrade (sf)

The shadow fight multiverse in the Underworld continuity is 2-B (with kali mentioning innumerable planes and titan conquering those worlds, universes in this context), however, with the introduction of characters like Architect and Puppeteer in the underworld special events, the verse can reach...

vsbattles.com

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

So what do you think should be done here exactly?

Honestly I think Tenebris' tier should stay as it is now (At least Low 2-C, possibly higher), and give Underworld Shadow a similar tier, but like thousands of times lower into it than Tenebris (because Tenebris' defeat is a cooperation between "thousands" of warriors and Shadow).

Also, should we keep both of the current Shadow Fight content revision threads open or keep the discussion contained to one of them only?

Maybe it would be best to merge both this thread and the one you linked with this one, since it tackles both threads' subjects and is relatively more active.

So that would mean closing this thread and the Low 1-C one.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe it would be best to merge both this thread and the one you linked with this one, since it tackles both threads' subjects and is relatively more active.

So that would mean closing this thread and the Low 1-C one.

Okay. I will close these threads then.

As Dashio said, we will continue here instead:

Shadow Fight Upgrade That Should Have Been Done In The Past

Seeing this thread here have been gone quite over a month without any progress, i am deciding to make a new one in hope to gather more input (i also have more justification to strengthen the fact) I already created a cosmology pages for all of the arguments, the only thing is now to decide...

vsbattles.com