Tanjiro downgrade

[TimmyTurnero]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but this calc on Tanjiro’s profile is wrong.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Kimetsu_no_Yaiba:_Tanjirou_speed


For starters, it’s calc stacking.
Tanjiro has no statements of being SoS or any clear feats showing him faster than sound. Reacting to “sound” can depend on distance and he can even be half the speed of sound and react to those speeds.
Assuming this random Demon is SoS is baseless and wrong.

Also the calc makes Tanjiro out to be 13x faster than these Demons who have been shown capable of tagging and fighting on par with him several times. In no way is this possible.

And finally Tanjiro doesn’t move the entire distance before the demon moves a couple centimeters, by the time Tanjiro makes his movement, the demon has also moved a significant distance, making this an inflated calc.

I propose that Tanjiro loses his rating off this feat.

 

[MysticCarnage]

I saw a CRT on this and the changes happened but then ANT reverted then idk why

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Agree

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I agree

 

[Metalballrun]

I'm not sure if this is indeed calc stacking, but the comments from DMUA and Agnaa already stated that this is calc stacking.

The transonic justifications also appear to be flimsy at best.

In case people bring up Kyogai/Drum Demon, his attacks being transonic is questionable too. Not only that, the wiki doesn't seem to agree with his attacks being Transonic either, considering he's Hypersonic+ from scaling to Tanjiro himself, whose speed is based in the calc in question.

 

[MysticCarnage]

I'm not sure if this is indeed calc stacking, but the comments from DMUA and Agnaa already stated that this is calc stacking.

The transonic justifications also appear to be flimsy at best.

In case people bring up Kyogai/Drum Demon, his attacks being transonic is questionable too. Not only that, the wiki doesn't seem to agree with his attacks being Transonic either, considering he's Hypersonic+ from scaling to Tanjiro himself, whose speed is based in the calc in question.

What ?

 

[MysticCarnage]

I think the changes ant made should be reverted since the guy who made the crt changed all the profiles lifting strength and speed

 

[Passersby]

In case people bring up Kyogai/Drum Demon, his attacks being transonic is questionable too. Not only that, the wiki doesn't seem to agree with his attacks being Transonic either, considering he's Hypersonic+ from scaling to Tanjiro himself, whose speed is based in the calc in question.

Weren't his attacks described by Tanjiro to be mach 1?

It was stated is chapter 22 page 10-11

To quote, he said

"These shapes that look like the claw mark of a beast, they appeared at the same time and speed as the sound of the drums"

Pretty sure that counts for transonic attack speed
Well, with his drums at least

 

[GarrixianXD]

Who are the demons you mentioned? There’s no way a Twelve Kizuki would be 13x slower than Tanjiro

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Who are the demons you mentioned? There’s no way a Twelve Kizuki would be 13x slower than Tanjiro

The mud demons.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Dub

I made a thread on this a while back but it stopped getting attention, I agree

 

[SuperStar]

Agreed

 

[GarrixianXD]

The mud demons.

I think that was the battle before Kyogai?

 

[Metalballrun]

Weren't his attacks described by Tanjiro to be mach 1?

No.

It was stated is chapter 23 page 10-11

Tanjiro is nowhere in any of those pages, or in that chapter for that matter.

You're thinking of Chapter 21 and 22, where Tanjiro only talks about the changes in the room and the claw attacks happening in time with the drum. Not that those changes or attacks were going at the speed of sound itself.

 

[Passersby]

Tanjiro is nowhere in any of those pages, or in that chapter for that matter.

that was a typo,i meant chapter 22
sorry about that

You're thinking of Chapter 21 and 22, where Tanjiro only talks about the changes in the room and the claw attacks happening in time with the drum. Not that those changes or attacks were going at the speed of sound itself.

tanjiro however, did state that the claw attack appear at the same time and speed as the sound of the drums,which indicates mach 1

it was also shown in the anime that even in his injured state, he is capable of moving at supersonic speed

the anime is secondary canon and thus from my experience, if it doesn't contradict the manga it can give us additional information about the characters

the animating porcess was also supervised by the author so i'm pretty sure this should be accepted

indicating tanjiro at the point in time even with severe injuries is supersonic at the very least

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Metalballrun]

tanjiro however, did state that the claw attack appear at the same time and speed as the sound of the drums,which indicates mach 1

Not in the Official Scans as far as I can tell.

 

[Passersby]

Not in the Official Scans as far as I can tell.

...not to discredit it nor you for that matter, but for an official release, the english seems as messed up as my sleep schedule

you sure that's the official manga translations?

the panel i sent had a way better translation quality

 

[Metalballrun]

the english seems as messed up as my sleep schedule

Explain.

 

[Passersby]

Explain.

...that i don't know how, the translation quality just seems better on the one i sent, not that it's official since i sent it from a pirated site

i'm just searching for the official translation for now and for information about it's translation quality

just treat mt previous reply as a joke

and btw, what do you think about the anime scene i sent you

 

[Damage3245]

This downgrade seems fine to me.

 

[Metalballrun]

that i don't know how, the translation quality just seems better on the one i sent, not that it's official since i sent it from a pirated site

The grammar of both scans are fine.
The scan I sent comes from a website that directly rips from official scans.

and btw, what do you think about the anime scene i sent you

Animation effects from secondary canon material are normally considered supporting evidences, provided there are further context.

Regardless, the concerns in the OP still holds.

This downgrade seems fine to me.

That's 1 staff agreement.

Though to be honest, this CRT calls for the removal of one calc, but no suggestions have been made with regards to which tier Tanjiro's gonna bump to next.

 

[Passersby]

The grammar of both scans are fine.
The scan I sent comes from a website that directly rips from official scans.

from what i found people seem to find manny inconsitencies and mistransltions from the VIZ translations and prefer the fan transltion

such as this

here "cowerdly" should be "sickly"

and there also cases like this

and while the fan transltion does have some mistranslations of it's own, the only ones i found were close enough such as douma saying "beautiful" instead of "pure"

VIZ got it right tho

so i really don't know how to deal with the situation

should we take the fan translation or the official one?

i'm new here so i have no idea, the fan translation also seems to be more consistent with the anime scene as tanjiro breaks the sound barrier in it

Animation effects from secondary canon material are normally considered supporting evidences, provided there are further context.

i see
but there is context here, the manga simply shows tanjiro dashing

with the anime expanding on the scene and showing the supersonic ring

so is this considered good?

edit: accidentaly posted it, still did not finish the reply

finished

 

[SuperStar]

Though to be honest, this CRT calls for the removal of one calc, but no suggestions have been made with regards to which tier Tanjiro's gonna bump to next.

Yea, that's the problem, if you look at the verse page all the speed calcs are either wrong or outdated. The only speed calc we have right now is Mitsuri dodging lightning, which is Mach 5.8 (Hypersonic+)

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Tanjiro doesn’t have any other speed feats? If that’s the case he’ll probably be dropped to superhuman.

As for Tanjiro being supersonic, he clearly couldn’t dodge those attacks without the large distance between them, and him perceiving these attacks before he attacks.

In no situation does Tanjiro scale to these attacks, and stop trying to use the anime for definite proof. If supersonic Tanjiro is never shown in the manga the anime cannot be used to prove such off a “shockwave.” These air pressured aren’t always an indication of supersonic speed anyways.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So much Demon slayer downgrades these days, anyway it won't really affect my re-creation of verse, since I will re-do all calculations myself later.

 

[Passersby]

Tanjiro doesn’t have any other speed feats? If that’s the case he’ll probably be dropped to superhuman.

As for Tanjiro being supersonic, he clearly couldn’t dodge those attacks without the large distance between them, and him perceiving these attacks before he attacks.

he only started aim dodging after this panel, not before it however

and even with that distance, the speed isn't superhuman,it's subsonic at least, we''re talking about an attack at the speed of sound here

not to mention he was injured

In no situation does Tanjiro scale to these attacks, and stop trying to use the anime for definite proof. If supersonic Tanjiro is never shown in the manga the anime cannot be used to prove such off a “shockwave.” These air pressured aren’t always an indication of supersonic speed anyways.

from the information i gathered about the wiki The anime can give new information since it's secondary canon for as long as it doesn't contradict the manga
and the demon slayer is considered secondary canon due to author supervision. Per interview with the producer:

Gotōge-san is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production. They actually have a great deal of trust in ufotable, so it was less about requesting changes and more about giving them useful advice to make the best work possible. In my opinion, it was a great working relationship

so as long as the anime does not contradict the manga any information it provides is canon

if you think otherwise then do tell me why, i'm still new here so if there is any rules restricting the use of secondary canon as a source of information that i'm not aware of do tell what they are and how they apply in this situation

do take into considirarion that

1 the anime did not contradict the manga, it simply expanded on the scene provided in the manga

and

2 the anime is comfirmed secondary canon since the author is supervising it

from what i've gathered, these requirements are enough to use the anime scene as a reliable feat

also tanjiro has a feat where he uses a water breathing form to cut all of temari's balls while they all appear frozen solid, i couldn't find a gif tbh so i apologize in advance that you have to look for it

....i have no idea how fast that is, but it's way higher than supersonic or hypersonic for that matter, that's for sure

altough i don't know how to scale so i'll leave that for someone else

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yea, that's the problem, if you look at the verse page all the speed calcs are either wrong or outdated. The only speed calc we have right now is Mitsuri dodging lightning, which is Mach 5.8 (Hypersonic+)

Funny

 

[Barbar01]

disagree

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

BOS Tanjiro should still be at least subsonic since even fodder demons can speed blitz humans. But yeah, hypersonic tanjiro isn’t happening until later on

 

[TimmyTurnero]

he only started aim dodging after this panel, not before it however

That isn’t stated anywhere, Tanjiro tells us how he’s dodging these attacks, and he claims there’s a hint of blood right before he uses it. He never says “I’ve figured out how to dodge it now” he just tells us how he’s dodging. He’s aim dodging.

and even with that distance, the speed isn't superhuman,it's subsonic at least, we''re talking about an attack at the speed of sound here

No, at that distance it can be any virtual speed we can imagine. But we know for a fact that he’s moving before he attacks and the Demon is several meters away from Tanjiro, for all we know it can be Superhuman, the feat isn’t applicable.

not to mention he was injured

Him being injured is a non factor, in prime condition we don’t know if he could react to these attacks.

from the information i gathered about the wiki The anime can give new information since it's secondary canon for as long as it doesn't contradict the manga
and the demon slayer is considered secondary canon due to author supervision. Per interview with the producer:

Gotōge-san is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production. They actually have a great deal of trust in ufotable, so it was less about requesting changes and more about giving them useful advice to make the best work possible. In my opinion, it was a great working relationship

so as long as the anime does not contradict the manga any information it provides is canon

if you think otherwise then do tell me why, i'm still new here so if there is any rules restricting the use of secondary canon as a source of information that i'm not aware of do tell what they are and how they apply in this situation

do take into considirarion that

1 the anime did not contradict the manga, it simply expanded on the scene provided in the manga

and

2 the anime is comfirmed secondary canon since the author is supervising it

from what i've gathered, these requirements are enough to use the anime scene as a reliable feat

also tanjiro has a feat where he uses a water breathing form to cut all of temari's balls while they all appear frozen solid, i couldn't find a gif tbh so i apologize in advance that you have to look for it

....i have no idea how fast that is, but it's way higher than supersonic or hypersonic for that matter, that's for sure

altough i don't know how to scale so i'll leave that for someone else

Idk why you keep trying to make this anime argument despite it not being like this at all. Want an example? A feat happens and we need a timeframe we can use the anime.
A character destroys a rock but we can’t see the entire thing in the manga but the anime shows us the entire thing.
Stuff like that, but when the anime creates an entire scene altogether it begins to be a problem.

If you want the anime to be canon make a CRT about it cause as it stands it’s not considered canon.


Tl;dr, if the anime EXPANDS on a scene from the manga, depending on the context and severity of whatever they animate, it could be used. But if the anime creates something entirely new which isn’t implied or depicted in the manga, then it requires extraordinary amounts of evidence to prove this is an adaptation and not an entirely new creation.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

And as I said earlier, there’s no proof of this being a supersonic ring, it just looks like the basic visual expression for pressure waves that’s in EVERY SINGLE ANIME OF EVER.
It’s just a visual effect.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

And as I said earlier, there’s no proof of this being a supersonic ring, it just looks like the basic visual expression for pressure waves that’s in EVERY SINGLE ANIME OF EVER.
It’s just a visual effect.

And it's just anime isn't it? It shouldn't count.

I remember something similar in another work, that in the manga the character just moves fast and in the anime they put this "break the sound barrier" ring

Yea, that's the problem, if you look at the verse page all the speed calcs are either wrong or outdated. The only speed calc we have right now is Mitsuri dodging lightning, which is Mach 5.8 (Hypersonic+)

Serious? I also remember other outdated or wrong calculations of a Vaporrr crt.

nuking the verse

 

[Passersby]

That isn’t stated anywhere, Tanjiro tells us how he’s dodging these attacks, and he claims there’s a hint of blood right before he uses it. He never says “I’ve figured out how to dodge it now” he just tells us how he’s dodging. He’s aim dodging.

because he never stated that to be the case when he was dodging the attacks previously, if you're suggesting he was relying on his sens of smell since the begining of the fight you need to provide evidence for such

No, at that distance it can be any virtual speed we can imagine. But we know for a fact that he’s moving before he attacks and the Demon is several meters away from Tanjiro, for all we know it can be Superhuman, the feat isn’t applicable.

that we do't know, the fact that he was moving before the attack even started since the begining of the fight is something you need to prove, more over

right after that panel, his dodging ability became smoother

altough a part of it is due to the breathing style form, it doesn't change the fact that right after that panel, he was able to dodge the attacks way easier than before

Him being injured is a non factor, in prime condition we don’t know if he could react to these attacks.

it's a factor that proves he wansn't at full strenght and is thus fater in prime condition,i that's all i wanted to peove
there is also the feat about him slashing all of temari's balls while they appear to be frozen that i mentioned

Idk why you keep trying to make this anime argument despite it not being like this at all. Want an example? A feat happens and we need a timeframe we can use the anime.
A character destroys a rock but we can’t see the entire thing in the manga but the anime shows us the entire thing.
Stuff like that, but when the anime creates an entire scene altogether it begins to be a problem.

If you want the anime to be canon make a CRT about it cause as it stands it’s not considered canon.


Tl;dr, if the anime EXPANDS on a scene from the manga, depending on the context and severity of whatever they animate, it could be used. But if the anime creates something entirely new which isn’t implied or depicted in the manga, then it requires extraordinary amounts of evidence to prove this is an adaptation and not an entirely new creation.

i see, thanks for the info

 

[TimmyTurnero]

because he never stated that to be the case when he was dodging the attacks previously, if you're suggesting he was relying on his sens of smell since the begining of the fight you need to provide evidence for such

Hitchen’s Razor.
If Tanjiro tells us he can smell before this guy attacks why would I assume he just randomly started applying this when he would be doing this the entire fight?
It’s an assumption to assume he was and wasn’t, but it’s more reasonable to assume he was always taking advantage of a weakness for the entire fight. It literally makes no sense to assume otherwise

that we do't know, the fact that he was moving before the attack even started since the begining of the fight is something you need to prove, more over

right after that panel, his dodging ability became smoother

altough a part of it is due to the breathing style form, it doesn't change the fact that right after that panel, he was able to dodge the attacks way easier than before

Because he was learning the pattern of his attacks. He learned which drum did what and applied that knowledge into his fight. That’s why he dodged so smoothly, I thought we both were aware of this?

if Tanjiro tells us he’s dodging by smelling the attack before he attacks, I’m not gonna assume “well he only does this now and beforehand he dodges using sheer speed even though this is never suggested!”
It just makes no sense.

it's a factor that proves he wansn't at full strenght and is thus fater in prime condition,i that's all i wanted to peove
there is also the feat about him slashing all of

temari's balls while they appear to be frozen that i mentioned

If its in the manga I’ll try to calc it, if it’s anime only then ima leave it alone.

i see, thanks for the info

 

[Passersby]

Hitchen’s Razor.
If Tanjiro tells us he can smell before this guy attacks why would I assume he just randomly started applying this when he would be doing this the entire fight?
It’s an assumption to assume he was and wasn’t, but it’s more reasonable to assume he was always taking advantage of a weakness for the entire fight. It literally makes no sense to assume otherwise

not if he only just stated said weakness and started taking advantage of it

Because he was learning the pattern of his attacks. He learned which drum did what and applied that knowledge into his fight. That’s why he dodged so smoothly, I thought we both were aware of this?

....that helps my point even more, he was learning the pattern of his attacks and realized that he could smell mold before kyogai attacks

if Tanjiro tells us he’s dodging by smelling the attack before he attacks, I’m not gonna assume “well he only does this now and beforehand he dodges using sheer speed even though this is never suggested!”
It just makes no sense.

it does make sens in the form of he just realized about that fact and is just now using it to his advantage

If its in the manga I’ll try to calc it, if it’s anime only then ima leave it alone.

altough you will need the timeframe and distance travelled from the anime, and since they appear to be completely frozen you will probaly need to use snail speed for the calc....i think