Talion vs Geralt of Rivia

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

SBA
Speed is Equalized
Their 8-C+ keys are being used.

Talion - 0 votes
Key: Shadow of Mordor

VS.

Geralt of Rivia - 0 votes
Key: Blood and Wine DLC

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

It made me surprised how this matchup went up unnoticed for such a long time, considering how this was basically main matchups for both of these characters.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Since Geralt is human Talion won't immediately be bloodlusted like he is against Non-Humans, meaning he won't just teleport his sword through Geralt's throat or Geralt's head into his hammer or mind control him with Domination, so now Geralt needs to figure out if he's going lethal against this dude or not. If yes then Talion will eventually whip those kinds of powers out barring Domination. If not then it comes down to if he can even incap Talion because killing him will be significantly harder.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Since Geralt is human Talion won't immediately be bloodlusted like he is against Non-Humans, meaning he won't just teleport his sword through Geralt's throat or Geralt's head into his hammer or mind control him with Domination, so now Geralt needs to figure out if he's going lethal against this dude or not. If yes then Talion will eventually whip those kinds of powers out barring Domination. If not then it comes down to if he can even incap Talion because killing him will be significantly harder.

Geralt does possess extremely high resistance to mind manipulation, it is a standard feature to every witcher. It took a proficient mage half an hour to take control of the mind of an average incapacitated witcher. Not to mention they can further enhance this resistance with the cat potion.

Meanwhile I am not aware that Talion has any set resistance to mind manipulation, which Geralt also has with the way of axii.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Geralt does possess extremely high resistance to mind manipulation, it is a standard feature to every witcher. It took a proficient mage half an hour to take control of the mind of an average incapacitated witcher. Not to mention they can further enhance this resistance with the cat potion.

It doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things or even this specific key for Talion but his later keys have Layered Mind Hax.

Meanwhile I am not aware that Talion has any set resistance to mind manipulation, which Geralt also has with the way of axii.

Talion straight up resists Sauron's attempts to Dominate him for literal decades on end.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[Stillwinston]

Who'd be more skilled here? I'm leaning on Geralt being a better swordsman atm but Talion does have his own feats iirc

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Who'd be more skilled here? I'm leaning on Geralt being a better swordsman atm but Talion does have his own feats iirc

Talion can beat Uruk Captains that have rapid adaption in combat, some of which can outright react to and immediately counter instant teleportion that gets triggered while mid Time Slow.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Who'd be more skilled here? I'm leaning on Geralt being a better swordsman atm but Talion does have his own feats iirc

I feel like Talion would be the more skilled. Some of the guys he's fought are old. Like thousand years old.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I feel like Talion would be the more skilled. Some of the guys he's fought are old. Like thousand years old.

Experience doesn't equal skill.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Experience doesn't equal skill.

Deciding how experience equates to skill is to decide the means over ends.

You can go around for centuries, killing thousands of fodders who are below you but you will not be as skilled as someone who spent a decade to solely train and fight masters of their fields.

Geralt in this instance hones his sword skills 24/7 and has basically fought every single swordmaster, mage and monster there is. Some a few centuries old, physically superior and skilled to the max in their field. Wild Hunt generals are the most prime example, they are implied to in the several centuries old and they’ve been active as long as the elder blood has been, traveling to alternative universes and wrecking havoc across them, dooming worlds to the white frost. In the artbook, Imlerith has been stated to have participated in thousands of battles and no mighty warrior has ever been able to stand up to him until Geralt showed up.

Although I am not familiar with Talion nor the games so feel free to compare their feats.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Talion can beat Uruk Captains that are either as strong or stronger than him who have rapid adaption in combat, some of which can outright react to and immediately counter instant teleportion that gets triggered while mid Time Slow.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Their profiles list them as having instinctive actions rather than accelerated development or adaptation. These are night and day on what you’re trying to describe upon the Uruk captains. Ones something that’s ingrained within their reptilian brains while the other is a skill that’s learned through trial and error or adapts to danger.

It almost has nothing to do with skill and ironically enough, gets countered through skill.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Their profiles list them as having instinctive actions rather than accelerated development or adaptation. These are night and day on what you’re trying to describe upon the Uruk captains. Ones something that’s ingrained within their reptilian brains while the other is a skill that’s learned through trial and error or adapts to danger.

It almost has nothing to do with skill and ironically enough, gets countered through skill.

There is literally an ability for some Uruk called Fast Learner in Shadow of War where they rapidly adapt to your tactics, skills and powers. Hell, even without this specific ability if you spam the same power on them, like freezing them in place, then it will just stop working on them unless they have a specific weakness towards said ability.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

There is literally an ability for some Uruk called Fast Learner in Shadow of War where they rapidly adapt to your tactics, skills and powers. Hell, even without this specific ability if you spam the same power on them, like freezing them in place, then it will just stop working on them unless they have a specific weakness towards said ability.

For some then, it isn’t a universal trait. Your average Uruk Captain can also adapt to some abilities and attacks but it simply takes a lot longer than the captain who has that ability trait (which doesn’t make them extremely skilled, as to make it an example for Talion). Although as I read, every Uruk captain has at least one weakness which can be exploited. Talion having dealt with countless of them probably knows how to deal with a majority of them.

Suffice to say, this isn’t a really reliable way of calling Talion skilled. Sure it takes effort and knowledge to counteract the enemy adaptation, but after sufficient amount of time it just becomes a matter of experience than just skill.

A proper example of skill is Geralt squaring off against Dettlaff, whom he was utterly outclassed and was unfamiliar due to never having fought a true higher vampire (in contrast, he was scarred shitless of ever thinking about fighting one). Dettlaff was also 500+ years old and much more experienced in fighting than Regis and Geralt emerged victorious through trial and error by learning on how to counteract his attacks and abilities and learning his weaknesses.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

For some then, it isn’t a universal trait. Your average Uruk Captain can also adapt to some abilities and attacks but it simply takes a lot longer than the captain who has that ability trait (which doesn’t make them extremely skilled, as to make it an example for Talion). Although as I read, every Uruk captain has at least one weakness which can be exploited. Talion having dealt with countless of them probably knows how to deal with a majority of them.

The only Class that has access to this ability says they gained this trait through sheer combat skill, that being the Slayer Advanced Class.

Suffice to say, this isn’t a really reliable way of calling Talion skilled. Sure it takes effort and knowledge to counteract the enemy adaptation, but after sufficient amount of time it just becomes a matter of experience than just skill.

This is by definition a skill feat, even with access to a weakness since he needs to be capable of using said weakness in combat for it to matter at all.

A proper example of skill is Geralt squaring off against Dettlaff, whom he was utterly outclassed and was unfamiliar due to never having fought a true higher vampire (in contrast, he was scarred shitless of ever thinking about fighting one). Dettlaff was also 500+ years old and much more experienced in fighting than Regis and Geralt emerged victorious through trial and error by learning on how to counteract his attacks and abilities and learning his weaknesses.

Cool, this is a good feat.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

The only Class that has access to this ability says they gained this trait through sheer combat skill, that being the Slayer Advanced Class.

But you’re further proving what I said, this isn’t a universal feature found within the Uruk and is more so something that is found within a set group of Uruk captains that specialize in that field.

There also isn’t a lot of known information just how skilled these uruks captains are. They adapt quickly and are great fighters, sure, but this is also something that Geralt does and is. Casually. Geralt analyzes the opponents behavior and his moveset and then goes on the offensive or defensive, he doesn’t let him get a window on him. Adapting by counterattacking is like the most basic thing Geralt does, he only dodges when he knows the attack can be potentially lethal or dangerous and he still has an answer for that. Not to mention that Geralt has minor instinctive reactions and analytical prediction.

Talion scales to something that Geralt is already capable of doing but at greater extent.

This is by definition a skill feat, even with access to a weakness since he needs to be capable of using said weakness in combat for it to matter at all.

I’m honest to god sorry because I didn’t intend to say that it isn’t skill because this is just contradicting on what I said earlier about. It is still a skill feat much like how Geralt dispatches a Fiend, Leshen, Werewolf, Bruxa, etc. because they still require effort and logical thinking to properly get killed. But Talion much like Geralt has had many encounters and is very familiar with something that they’ve faced before which requires less effort due to being familiarized, despite how hard the opponent might be. And no matter how skilled or proficient a fighter is, when a master has a massive skill and experience ceiling gap, it doesn’t matter how quickly you adapt you won’t be able to out-best them.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

And to quickly say from overall, because I am still not entirely familiar with Talion but do I think he can be the more experienced and skilled fighter? Sure, I don’t disagree if evidence is brought forth. For this I am going that he is.

Is he the better swordsman? Highly doubt. Geralt is unquestionably the best swordsman in the witcher verse, he’s fought and defeated essentially every swordsman he’s ever come across in a fair or unfair duel. He hones his sword skills every single day since he was a child. Having a witcher kill count of at least 10 makes Geralt already one of the most gifted swordfighters there is. Every Witcher has gone through the same mutations and have done the same training at the same age, every single one the at least decades worth of fighting, slaying and assassination experience.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

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[CapWhiteRose]

Would Yrdn force Calabrimbor to be tangible?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Interesting match but it seems to largely be entrenched in the debate phase atm, I'll follow but withhold my vote for the time being