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Super Robot Wars Scaling Revision

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ZeedKZ

ZeedKZ

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Hi everyone! Hope you have a nice and happy new year, today we're discussing the 2-A Super Robot Wars scaling that was defined many months ago, and we're completing a discussion that started in this SRW scaling blog. We're bringing here because it's a more appropriated place. The blog is already completely altered, it doesn't contains the 2-A feats anymore, but we are here to put a final decision over this. All credits to @Apex_PredatorX , i'm here on his name. I will mentions every arguments that are in favor or against the 2-A scaling for other characters (at least, the ones I remember).

Affected profiles:​

Arguments against 2-A scaling for other characters:​

  • Mechas of the events can't be scaled to previous events due contradictions on Mazinger Zero powerscaling.
  • The weekly events all follow different stories and continuities. Using Mazinger ZERO as an example, in this event, Big O can beat Mazinger ZERO. In this event, Gundam Unicorn can beat Zero. In this event, it was stated in text that only Demonbane and Liber Leiges can beat Zero. Each event follows its own rules and should not be used for scaling, as you have mechs of vastly different power levels beating Zero.

Arguments in favor of 2-A scaling for other characters:​

  • SRW Omega shares multiple crossovers in one single continuity, the mechas should scale to their own feats into the game. It doesn't make sense to not scale them from previous events even if sometimes the events have some contradictions.
  • Many other franchises sometimes have small contradictions in the powerscaling, but as far as I know Godzilla event deosn't have a contradiction.
  • There is nothing that proves Mazinger Z and Evas dont scale from their previous events.
  • Also scaling the characters to their movie incarnations is simply wrong, we cant cross--scale versions of Mazinger and Evas to their anime versions.
  • Even if sometimes the game has contradictions, as far as in Godzilla event there are no contradictions, we can still scale Evas and Mazinger from previous events.
And that's it! I might have forget some arguments for each side, but those are the mains and most important ones, and now it's time to discuss.

Against with scaling other characters as 2-A: 5 (@D180 @Ionliosite @DarkDragonMedeus @SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King @Antvasima)
In favor with scaling other characters as 2-A: 0
Neutral: 1 (@StrymULTRA)
 
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I'm following this for now; while I do agree that there are 2-A feats existing, the part I'm skeptical about is some ideas of "Big list of characters" scaling from it. But I don't have the best knowledge on the plot, so I may not be able to argue for or against. But willing to hear all sides.
 
I will also see what happens here. Has the new member who wanted the blog information changed successfully signed up to this forum yet?
 

Introduction:​

Hi everyone. I was the one who asked for the revising of scaling and stats specifically for Godzilla and his appearance in SRW Cross Omega as there seems to be some misconceptions with regards to how scaling and events works in SRW Cross Omega. I have played multiple SRW games and SRW Cross Omega is one that I have been playing religiously since its launch in 2015. This post will aim to explain Cross Omega in greater detail as well as clear these misconceptions. Videos, images & links from various Cross Omega related sites & wikis will be used.

SRW CROSS OMEGA IN GENERAL:​

SRW Cross Omega is a mobile game made in 2015. Unlike traditional SRW games that are tactical role-playing games, Cross Omega uses a mix of tower defense & RTS elements and is basically a mecha/pilot collection game where you can make a squad of your favourite mechs and characters with few restrictions. You could literally have a team of Mazinger ZERO with other Mazingers VS Mazinger ZERO during one of the previous events. Its also partly because of the teams that I have used in the following videos that has led to some misconceptions with how crossovers work in Cross Omega.

How stories & continuity work in SRW Cross Omega:​

Unlike most traditional SRW games which generally follow one continuous plot from start to finish, SRW Cross Omega is unique as it has both a main plot which is updated with new story chapters every week as well as weekly events that will feature a crossover between a minimum 3-5 series with their own unique stories, characters and units that the player can collect. Other than the events featuring Original Generation characters, each weekly event follows its own continuity, separate from other weekly events or the main plot. For example, there are events where the events of Char's Counterattack play out like the original as well as various other alternate stories where the events play out differently and have different participating series. Much like say the Dragon Ball Z movies for example, the power scaling in each event varies depending on the series featured for that week.

Mazinger ZERO is an excellent example as it has shown up in multiple weekly events with varying levels of power depending on the series that is featured during that event:

1) Fights & is defeated by Unicorn Gundam, Getter Robo, Daltanious & Great Mazinger
2) Fights & is defeated by Grendizer, Mazinkaiser SKL, Great Mazinger, Macross F & Macross DYRL characters singing
3) Fights & is defeated by Big O, Aquarion EVOL & Mazinkaiser SKL
4) Fights & is defeated by Demonbane & Liber Legis. In this continuity, Mazinger ZERO explicitly says himself that it would take 2 Shining Trapezohedrons to defeat him
5) Is forced to stop and recover after being hit by Shin Getter Dragon's Shin Shine Spark

Another example is the events involving the Gundam Build Fighter (GBF) characters. Unlike other traditional Gundam series, the Gundams in GBF are mostly Gunpla so SRW Cross Omega had to make some adjustments to make them work in story.

1) In their debuting event, the GBF characters were put in a story involving TTGL & Gunbuster characters and they were able to fight the likes of the Anti-Spiral using the power of spiral space and imagination to make their Gunpla giant size as well as bring other Gundam characters into existence.

2) However, in a later event where GBF, Medabots, GaoGaiGar & Daitarn 3 share the same setting, the GBF characters are only as powerful as a few mass produced Rokushos.

I could show even more examples but I believe you guys get the idea. The same series might come back in later event stories but their power levels will be dependent on the series that are featured along side it as well as the story that the writers are trying to tell for that week (have to make the new debuting or limited series look good after all).

Addressing the arguments in favor of 2-A Godzilla​

  • As mentioned in great detail above, the crossovers in Cross Omega DO NOT SHARE A SINGLE CONTINUITY. As such, you cannot scale Godzilla to any other event but the 2016 one where it has appeared in so far.
  • The 2016 Godzilla event story (which you can view in its entirety here: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29392382) generally has Godzilla being too much for Mazinger Z, Dr Hell's Mechanical Beasts, EVA-00 & EVA-02 to handle. Kiryu & Kiryu (EVA Colours) had to step in to deal with Godzilla and they were eventually able to chase him away after hitting him with an Absolute Zero Cannon, much like how it was in the actual Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla movie.
  • It should be noted that the Toei version of Mazinger Z, the Rebuild versions of the EVAs and the Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla Versions of Godzilla & Kiryu were used in the event. As such, they can be scaled to their anime/live-action versions since they are directly based on those versions.
  • In a later event story that takes place in another continuity, Mazinger Z was struggling to push Axis alongside other mechs. It ultimately came down to both Char & Amuro utilizing their psycho frames to deal with Axis. To my knowledge, Mazinger Z (Toei version) & the EVAs have generally not been in any events where they displayed Galaxy or Universal feats on their own.
  • Unless otherwise stated in the event story itself, it is safe and logical to scale Mazinger Z & the EVAs to their anime counterparts as dictated in their pilot and mech bios. It has to be a case by case basis and not by blindly scaling them to other events that follow different continuities and where they did not even appear in.

I will stop here for now but there are still other arguments that I will address later. Feel free to ask questions or clarifications and I will get back to you asap.
 
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I myself agree with D180. The very reason I made an entire section on my canon blog for Cross Omega is because of this, it isn't one long-winded story like the other entries, but instead a series of self-contained crossovers, which makes taking the feats within the crossover far easier than it would be in the regular entries. I think 5-B for 70s Mazinger is perfectly fine since pretty much always it has its "destroy the planet" statement, and iirc Apex's proposal was scaling Godzilla to being 1000x above that because of statements and stomping those mecha.
 
D180 said:
It should be noted that the Toei version of Mazinger Z, the Rebuild versions of the EVAs and the Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla Versions of Godzilla & Kiryu were used in the event. As such, they can be scaled to their anime/live-action versions since they are directly based on those versions
Click to expand...
That's never been how crossover scaling worked, for quite literally anything ever. Mountain level EVAs are literally less than insects to multi-continental Mazinger and Kiryu. It's MUCH more logical to say they would scale to each other than using their canon profiles which are VASTLY different in scale.
 
Ionliosite said:
I myself agree with D180. The very reason I made an entire section on my canon blog for Cross Omega is because of this, it isn't one long-winded story like the other entries, but instead a series of self-contained crossovers, which makes taking the feats within the crossover far easier than it would be in the regular entries. I think 5-B for 70s Mazinger is perfectly fine since pretty much always it has its "destroy the planet" statement, and iirc Apex's proposal was scaling Godzilla to being 1000x above that because of statements and stomping those mecha.
Click to expand...
Godzilla actually scales above the x6000 times power up of Kiryu Eva-01 who is vastly stronger than Mazinger without even need to powering up.

So Dwarf Star level seems consistent for the Godzilla, Kiryu and Kiryu Eva-01
 
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Lets say Mazinger is only baseline (a lowball)

59.44 Zettatons

Kiryu Eva is stronger than Mazinger an unkonwn amount of times. But lets scale him from the 59.44 Zettatons (another lowball)

59.44 Zettatons x 6000 = 356640 Zettatons (Large Planet level)

Now original Kiryu is stronger than Kiryu Eva-01 an unkonw amount of times. So now cames another lowball...

Kiryu can increase his power by 300

356640 Zettatons x 300 =106,992,000 zettatons

or 106,992 yottatons 106.992 ninatons Dwarf star level.

And this was only enough to match Godzilla, not defeat him.
 
SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King said:
That's never been how crossover scaling worked, for quite literally anything ever. Mountain level EVAs are literally less than insects to multi-continental Mazinger and Kiryu. It's MUCH more logical to say they would scale to each other than using their canon profiles which are VASTLY different in scale.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with this. We SHOULD NOT scale EVAs and Mazinger to their canon version. They're 5-B via Mazinger's statement, nothing lower.
 
Apex_PredatorX said:
I think we should scale them from their feats in the game
Click to expand...
If thats the case, they can be scaled based on their feats in the 2016 crossover event (https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29392382) with Godzilla.

Some of which include fighting strengthened Mechanical Beasts that Dr Hell had strengthened to deal with Godzilla. Mazinger Z & the EVAs were struggling to defeat a few but Godzilla managed to defeat more than half of them with just a single attack. There is also Godzilla managing to survive 2nd Impact which can count as a durability feat.

With 5-B Mazinger as a base line, 5-A Godzilla (SRW) is a reasonable estimate.
 
D180 said:
If thats the case, they can be scaled based on their feats in the 2016 crossover event (https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29392382) with Godzilla.

Some of which include fighting strengthened Mechanical Beasts that Dr Hell had strengthened to deal with Godzilla. Mazinger Z & the EVAs were struggling to defeat a few but Godzilla managed to defeat more than half of them with just a single attack. There is also Godzilla managing to survive 2nd Impact which can count as a durability feat.

With 5-B Mazinger as a base line, 5-A Godzilla (SRW) is a reasonable estimate.
Click to expand...
High 5-A is the reasonable tier for Godzilla and Kiryu as I explained above
 
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It seems like you have reached an agreement about High 5-A then, which is fine with me as well.
 
Apex_PredatorX said:
Ok I think most people agree with High 5-A tier, soo if there is nothing agaisnt it I could make the update on the profiles.
Click to expand...
That would be good.

In your scaling blog, do also include the feats mentioned here like Godzilla tanking 2nd Impact as well as defeating multiple strengthened Mechanical Beasts in one hit.
 
Tell me here when everything is done, so I can close this thread.
 
Thank you. I will close this thread then.
 
Apex wants to get a change accepted, so I unlocked this thread.
 
Ok in summary I forgot to add the x1500 multiplier of Kiryu Eva-01 to my operation that is above.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kiryu_Eva-01

But I'll explain everything again

Lets say Mazinger is only baseline (a lowball)

59.44 Zettatons

Kiryu Eva is stronger than Mazinger an unkonwn amount of times. But lets scale him from the 59.44 Zettatons (another lowball)

59.44 Zettatons x 1,500 power-up = 89,160 Zettatons (Large Planet level)

Then we have another power-up that puts Kiryu Eva-01 to a superior range than even his previous power-up that was x 6,000 when fully connected with Shinji's mind.

89160 Zettatons x 6,000 power-up = 534,960,000 Zettatons (Dwarf Star level)

Now original Kiryu is stronger than Kiryu Eva-01 an unknown amount of times. So now cames another lowball...

We don't know ho much stronger is Kiryu from Kiryu Eva, but Kiryu can increase his power by 300

534,960,000 Zettatons x 300 = 160,488,000,000 Zettatons

or 160.5 Tenatons (Star level)

And this was only enough to match Godzilla, not defeat him.
 
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