Suiryu and Choze low 7-B upgrade

[ZillertheBucko]

Choze is stated (currently accepted on the profile) to have the same attack as homeless emperor
Additionally, we know that size determines the strength of these attacks, and choze's energy attack was bigger than homeless emperor's attack which damaged barf ugly
we also know that choze's energy ball was unquantifiably way above the 7-C cloud split, as it keeps on going for an unknown amount of time afterward, so it's also consistent with the visual feat I guess
choze would scale to low 7-B, suiryu would scale, and the crows, snek, and max would all downscale to high 7-C
I also think this means that deep sea king would scale to low 7-B now? Anyways

agree:
disagree:
neutral:

 

[Kachon123]

Neutral and I'll wait for more input until I make a solid choice on whether I agree or not.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

They should all scale to Vaccine Man, too!

 

[ZillertheBucko]

They should all scale to Vaccine Man, too!

as much as I would like to, I already considered this
we never see the size of the light ball that caused the 7-B explosion since it happened semi offscreen, meaning it could have been a massive one like homeless emperor's high 7-A one

 

[ssgengar]

have the same attack as homeless emperor

I mean he said “same thing with” not “same attack as”, by same thing he could just be referring to energy projection

was bigger than homeless emperor's attack which damaged barf ugly

Yeah but he also spammed a lot of them

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I mean he said “same thing with” not “same attack as”, by same thing he could just be referring to energy projection

I mean there's a lot more energy projection attacks he could have said so that wouldn't make sense. The only reason he would say specifically choze and homeless emperor (and vaxx man) is if they were literally the same attack

 

[Kachon123]

I mean he said “same thing with” not “same attack as”, by same thing he could just be referring to energy projection

He just said that they are the same thing.

 

[Damage3245]

It's the same type of attack, but we do not know if it is the same potency at all.

Homeless Emperor's own blasts can vary quite a lot.

 

[Kachon123]

It's the same type of attack

Where was the word type mentioned in the interview?


Also, It's important to note that these were interviews with Murata so if these were accepted it would only grant 'possibly' ratings.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's the same type of attack, but we do not know if it is the same potency at all.

it is explicitly said to be the same attack, you added the word "type" there out of thin air

Homeless Emperor's own blasts can vary quite a lot.

based on size, which I explained

 

[Damage3245]

Where was the word type mentioned in the interview?


Also, It's important to note that these were interviews with Murata so if these were accepted it would only grant 'possibly' ratings.

Where is it said it's the same potency too?

Both Vaccine Man and Homeless Emperor are Dragon level threats, while Choze is not considered as such by Gouketsu. I don't see any good reason to assume he is as automatically powerful as them.

 

[Recon1511]

I mean the statement is really vague tbf, Murata just said while drawing that they are the "same" without elaborating further and it could mean a lot of things.
Same as in it's also energy projection? Same as in it shares the same properties as HE attacks (Burning and explosive)? Same as in it shares the same AP? Same as they just look the same?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Where is it said it's the same potency too?

if they are the same attack then potency is automatically included

Both Vaccine Man and Homeless Emperor are Dragon level threats, while Choze is not considered as such by Gouketsu. I don't see any good reason to assume he is as automatically powerful as them.

because homeless emperor is capable of creating high 7-A attacks while choze is featless there. Choze even had to charge up the low 7-B attack a little anyways, while homeless emperor does it a little faster. do not bring up vaccine man's threat level, it's irrelevant for scaling

 

[ssgengar]

I mean there's a lot more energy projection attacks he could have said so that wouldn't make sense. The only reason he would say specifically choze and homeless emperor (and vaxx man) is if they were literally the same attack

Yeah but they could also just be examples, I don’t see anything about their outputs being the same

He just said that they are the same thing.

Why assume “same thing with” means same amount of power

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why assume “same thing with” means same amount of power

well because power is part of a thing, especially in a discussion about attacks, so if it wasn't the same power then it wouldn't be the same thing, which would mean murata is wrong, which we typically don't assume without evidence

 

[Recon1511]

Interviews/Stream Q/A 3

These are taken from http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nebu-kuro1 This page covers streams from 2017 Q - Questions by random stream audience A - Answer from Murata regarding the question T - From the translator, Lee, or hdx514 Murata - Whenever he speaks during the stream (Not answering any...

onepunchman.fandom.com

This is the statement btw

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not in favor of using this statement to replace Choze's current scaling, especially considering it is a Murata statement.

 

[Kachon123]

Interviews/Stream Q/A 3

These are taken from http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nebu-kuro1 This page covers streams from 2017 Q - Questions by random stream audience A - Answer from Murata regarding the question T - From the translator, Lee, or hdx514 Murata - Whenever he speaks during the stream (Not answering any...

onepunchman.fandom.com

This is the statement btw

It was already linked in the OP.

 

[ssgengar]

I’m honestly convinced the comparison to homeless emperor just refers to the fact that they both have energy projection. Homeless emperor uses way too many variations of it to know which attack murata would even be referring to if he did mean same exact attack and power, which he didn’t. “Same thing with” could mean different things

 

[Kachon123]

especially considering it is a Murata statement

Murata statements are treated as possibly ratings if they don't contradict the story.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I’m honestly convinced the comparison to homeless emperor just refers to the fact that they both have energy projection. Homeless emperor uses way too many variations of it to know which attack murata would even be referring to if he did mean same exact attack and power, which he didn’t. “Same thing with” could mean different things

the attack only varies with size, so bringing up the variations here don't matter
it is the exact same attack in different sizes, so if a choze ball is the same size as a homeless emperor ball, then being the same attack (this is stated), it would have the same AP
choze's ball was actually somewhat larger than the balls that damaged barf furher ugly as well, meaning he would scale like a tiny bit above those, but we don't really have evidence that it's linear so we couldn't say by how much

 

[Damage3245]

the attack only varies with size, so bringing up the variations here don't matter
it is the exact same attack in different sizes, so if a choze ball is the same size as a homeless emperor ball, then being the same attack (this is stated), it would have the same AP
choze's ball was actually somewhat larger than the balls that damaged barf furher ugly as well, meaning he would scale like a tiny bit above those, but we don't really have evidence that it's linear so we couldn't say by how much

Homeless Emperor hurt Fuhrer Ugly with a continuous bombardment of dozens of projectiles. We can't compare Choze's one projectile to that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Homeless Emperor hurt Fuhrer Ugly with a continuous bombardment of dozens of projectiles. We can't compare Choze's one projectile to that.

the wiki does not recognize chip damage on that scale as a thing that exists, and even then it left multiple holes in ugly anyways
we literally can compare it, because it was stated to be the same

 

[ssgengar]

the attack only varies with size, so bringing up the variations here don't matter

Yeah but my point I guess is that these variations typically use large numbers of small orbs rather than single, bigger orb attacks

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yeah but my point I guess is that these variations typically use large numbers of small orbs rather than single, bigger orb attacks

not sure what you mean entirely
I mean, as shown by the high 7-A feat's existence, the exact size of the orbs and their power aren't like perfectly linear, but we do know that a bigger orb will always be stronger than a smaller one.
1. the mini sized orb which is strong enough to block a zombieman bullet and not blow up his normal human level face
2. normal sized ones that destroyed ugly
3. big big mountain buster
and as far as I can tell there's no contradictions to this

 

[ssgengar]

What I’m saying is the large quantity of smaller orbs makes up for their size, you can say that choze’s was bigger than them individually but he was literally spamming the shit out of them

 

[ByAsura]

Neutral, but like Kachon said, we take these streams with a grain of salt due to Murata's own words on the topic.

So it'd get a possibly rating, as with Geryu's Rel+ attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

I'd be okay with a "possibly higher" at best, but I'm not okay with directly scaling it to the blasts that harmed Fuhrer Ugly for the reason I mentioned above.

Plus it'd be pretty weird if Suiryu was more durable than Fuhrer Ugly & Superally Darkshine.

Also, isn't it just a fact that Choze's energy balls works differently to Homeless Emperor's since HE's explodes on contact and Choze's did not?

 

[Recon1511]

Honestly Suiryu could just "at most" scale to Low 7-B (or downscale to High 7-C+ like others) given he broke Bakuzan toe

 

[ssgengar]

Also, isn't it just a fact that Choze's energy balls works differently to Homeless Emperor's since HE's explodes on contact and Choze's did not?

Yes he also couldn’t control them from a distance like homeless can iirc

 

[Kachon123]

Plus it'd be pretty weird if Suiryu was more durable than Fuhrer Ugly & Superally Darkshine.

Yeah that's true as if this get's accepted, it would look like

Suiryu > Choze >~ Homeless Emperor smaller orbs > Vomited Fuhrer Ugly ~ Darkshine AP > Base Fuhrer Ugly ~ Cadre level > Suiryu

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Plus it'd be pretty weird if Suiryu was more durable than Fuhrer Ugly & Superally Darkshine.

He was champion of superfight multiple times, and was literally depicted as being bored with his opponents being fodder compared to him. His only other showings are against gouketsu, an insanely strong cadre, and being beaten by bakuzan while heavily weakened (and still breaking his toe, I guess)
Apparently someone somewhere thought he was good enough to fight garou in an OVA or something.
It's not weird at all, you can't just say it's weird.

also it would scale above darkshine's AP, not durability

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also, isn't it just a fact that Choze's energy balls works differently to Homeless Emperor's since HE's explodes on contact and Choze's did not?

that part isn't true either, as the swordfighters are seen literally knocking away the balls while they don't explode on contact with the swords
choze's light balls were only shown one time during the entire series, so it's just the same situation there. Nothing is inconsistent about this.

 

[Recon1511]

Scaling above Darkshine in AP is cringe when he is regarded as easily one of the strongest S Class and can vaporize extremely durable monsters like Bug God (who in his base form could tank with no problems attacks from Peak Human Garou) with a light jab.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Scaling above Darkshine in AP is cringe when he is regarded as easily one of the strongest S Class and can vaporize extremely durable monsters like Bug God (who in his base form could tank with no problems attacks from Peak Human Garou) with a light jab.

well there are multiple people stronger than darkshine (unarmed flashy flash lmao bang lmao) and suiryu himself was considered insanely powerful, we just only saw him very little fighting very unfortunate foes like saitama and gouketsu back to back and being weakened

 

[Kachon123]

Scaling above Darkshine is cringe as Suiryu isn't even regarded as S-Class level to Gouketsu.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

gouketsu likely gets his S class knowledge from gyoro gyoro, who thought homeless emperor and platinum sperm could beat tatsumaki, and thought elder centipede could beat flashy flash.

 

[ByAsura]

So he doesn't even consider Suiryu to be on that level with downplayed knowledge.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

With inconsistent knowledge
do not bend this to suit your ideas

 

[ByAsura]

not really bending it since DS and base Bang are > EC, and i don't see how it's inconsistent when they're just a lot stronger than they believed.