Stronkest 7-A thread I guess

[DMUA]

Yee I guess

Muhspeedequal

Otherwise Standard Battle Assumptions

Erebus Orestes

Iblis Victoria

Inconclusive:

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Y u do dis

I never wanted to argue this.

I only added a few points because you started arguing.

 

[DMUA]

hecc

 

[DMUA]

Well I also don't want to argue this because I'm going to sleep now so

 

[Akreious]

Iblis wasn't even added as strongest yet wtf.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

• tentatively bumps*

 

[Akreious]

Okay so, most of Erebus' haxes aren't going to be able to put Iblis down. High-Godly, Type-5 as well as Resurrection is a biiiitch. Main haxes to focus on in this thread is Existence Erasure (Depending on the level of it), and Reality Warping (Depending on the level). Everything else he has, while might be harmful, will be incapable of putting down Iblis down for more than a few seconds maximum. Assuming these attacks even get past passive EE.

In terms of speed, Iblis lolblitzes Erebus normally with only Immeasurable Speed defense swords to make up for this. Meanwhile, Iblis has hellfire manipulation, teleportation and said passive EE. This is important because nothing is stopping Iblis from just spamming explosions inside Erebus, even if his regen is able to heal from damage almost instantly (Like what is said in the Strongest Thread). Basically, spam enough explosions to the point that each cell has one explosion going for it. Some might argue she isn't able to do this, but I'd argue she IS since she finely controls blood to her whim and makes atomically-perfect spears out of blood which... is kind of hard if you can't actually see stuff on the cellular level.

Then we have Hell's Key and Hell's Bane. Upon even a small scratch, you will be sent to hell by Hell's Key. This is important because the Reaper there (Lucifer) will not let you leave once you've entered; and this is a person with Law and Order Manipulation. With Hell's Bane, you get infinitely split across infinite multiverses forever; a Super BFR. It is agreed upon that while yes, Erebus might be able to hold on to a small part of himself; that's ALL he can do. This effect does not go away, so he'd be stuck eternally pulling himself back together and holding onto what's left of him once the effect takes over.

I am... going to be honest. This ends at best with Iblis being unable to harm Erebus while Erebus is unable to permanently put Iblis down due to a lack of hax being able to bypass High Godly + Type 5 Immortality + Resurrection. Meanwhile, Erebus is basically screwed if he gets even scratched by either of Iblis' blades.

I await a rebuddal or some other insight I might've glossed over.


Edit: And no, Knock-Out isn't an option here as her body is merely a vessel. Knocking it out will not affect anything.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

DMUA why didn't you equalise speed damn it.

 

[DMUA]

Immeasurable Godblades, son.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Defence function only

He can't attack that fast

 

[DMUA]

fine

 

[Akreious]

I'm actually pretty sure speed equalized hurts Erebus in the long run. His ultimate defense, the Immeasurable speed Blades can now be bypassed since it's in the same zone of speed as Iblis now. This means that unlike before, the chances that Erebus gets scratched by either of her blades exponentially go up.

Plus the vast majority of Erebus' haxes still lack the potency to permanently put Iblis down.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The blades teleport through time and space to block attacks, so equalising their speed isnt going to hurt their chances of doing that actually.

He could hit her with the "at least 1-C" concept of death and negate her Regenerationn and resurrection.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So blades lose their speed but still have their ability to tele-P through time-space, eh? Ooh...

And that 1-C death powah though...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's not like speed equal negates teleportation or time travel abilities so...

 

[Akreious]

"The blades teleport through time and space to block attacks, so equalising their speed isnt going to hurt their chances of doing that actually."

They were previously immeasurable. Now they're only capable of doing that. Their chances of doing that is indeed hurt. Because unlike before, Iblis' swords are now able to travel at around relatively the same speeds as them. Oh and Iblis can also teleport the swords so Teleporting blades isn't anything special to her.

"He could hit her with the "at least 1-C" concept of death and negate her Regenerationn and resurrection."

Too bad her High-Godly, Resurrection and "Essence" are from her Prime which is High 1-B. Her type 5 is also from her Prime, so 1-C concept of Death isn't going to work. Also, again, only a scratch from either of her blades will close the battle.

Edit: I should also add this; she's like SCP 682 in a way. She's banished to the 3D realm as a mortal, but her "True Self" is still what she actually is; although only limited to her vessel

Edit Edit: Literally her first feat, "Retains her Immortality/Regen from her former prime, the same Regen that allowed her to come back from having every concept and all of her existence as well as the entire timeline/reality she's in being erased."

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I don't think you understand how the defense function works. They are immeasurable because A) they blocked the gigantic hydra moving through higher dimensional time and space to attack and B) because they themselves can teleport through time and space to attack. Equalising speed doesn't actually do anything to stop the blades immeasurable speed, because it's a product of their teleportation and time travel abilities. They're still immeasurable, it's just through hax rather than through sheer speed.

Iblis teleporting her blades doesn't matter either.

Sealing won't work via 1-C resistance to it.

And splitting him into pieces won't work either, as he can just hold himself together with power at least several degrees of infinity greater than 2-A, and that is not going to be "all he can do" as you put it. He'd be using a literally infinitesimal fraction of his strength to do it.

 

[Akreious]

A few things.

"Sealing won't work via 1-C resistance to it."

The blade only moves you to hell. The actual Sealing is done via someone with Order and Law Manipulation; something Erebus has no resistance to nor can he actually kill this person.

"And splitting him into pieces won't work either, as he can just hold himself together with power at least several degrees of infinity greater than 2-A, and that is not going to be "all he can do" as you put it. He'd be using a literally infinitesimal fraction of his strength to do it."

I feel like you're forgetting the fact that his ability to hold himself together with said several degrees of infinty greater than 2-A will ALSO be split across the Infinite Magniverse. Think of how the sword works like this; it's a natural property of it. A natural disaster. It disregards dimensions and just does. For this reason, even Iblis was unsure of being hit by this blade as even with her Infinitely-Dimensioned Mind as well as Resurrections, she will literally be split so many times in a single instant that she will NEVER get the chance to actually regenerate again. This also leads me to believe that the moment Erebus is scratched, he literally won't get a moment to activate telekinesis as he'd already be infinitely spread across the Magniverses, and when he thinks of telekinesis'ing himself together again, he's once again split across more infinite magniverses twice more.

Tl;dr, He'd get split infinitely so many times so quickly that he'd be literally unable to try to use telekinesis to pull himself together as the moment he attempts to think of using telekinesis, his thoughts are split infinitely causing him to have to think back from square one. Ignoring the fact that your very thoughts would also be infinitely scattered; making you incapable of making any actions since your very thoughts are unable to form coherent connections.

Also!

This is what you said in the Strongest Thread. " B) while saying he can control infinite pieces of himself might be NLF, he's quite capable of controlling the finite pieces of himself and never allowing them to become infinite."

Right here, you admitted that he being split infinitely will at least do something; something you're contradicting right now by saying "muh he resists with no effort because telekinesis".

AND EVEN THEN! I have YET to still see a way for Erebus to put Iblis down for the win. At the very best, Erebus is going to stalemate Iblis due to the two's inability to put eachother down.

PREMATURE MIC DROP (And I don't have an anime meme with a mic drop...)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He'd passively be holding himself (and his thoughts, and his soul, and his power, etc) together, as he does, hence why he'd never allow himself to be split into infinite pieces. "It disregards dimensions, it just does" is a NLF, but if it is High 1-B splitting then sure. You should have mentioned that sooner.

Let's see Lucifer's profile.

The swords still need to cut him though, which is unlikely with his defenses. And his durability.

There's not really anything he can do to put her down normally, what with her High 1-B everything so I'm mostly just arguing for inconclusive at this point. Though assuming he's pressed enough, he could also transform into the Authority of Conquest and just conquer her.

 

[Akreious]

"The swords still need to cut him though, which is unlikely with his defenses. And his durability." Nah, just a scratch. Although same difference.

"Though assuming he's pressed enough, he could also transform into the Authority of Conquest and just conquer her."

Unless Domination works on High 1-B minds, I doubt that's gonna happen. Although I doubt this would happen in the first place since the only ways of victory for either players here are 1-hits so a drawn-out fight where one gets pressed over another is unlikely.

I'm fine with inconclusive (Speed Equal).

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Scratch = cut. They need to actually hit and damage him. Considering magical autoblocking swords, magic resistant armour, and his own durability, that's unlikely to happen.

Domination doesn't need to work on the mind. Even if the mind resists, the body is still controlled. As is the power.

 

[Akreious]

"Scratch = cut. They need to actually hit and damage him. Considering magical autoblocking swords, magic resistant armour, and his own durability, that's unlikely to happen."

Even a scratch on the armour will achieve the same effect. No damage needs to actually take place; just a hit on the blade will work.

"Domination doesn't need to work on the mind. Even if the mind resists, the body is still controlled. As is the power."

"My Body, My Rules: As Iblis isn't technically of the 3rd Dimension, Iblis has complete and total control over her body. The ability to stretch indefinitely, completely shapeshift, perfectly replicate another being's genome, enhance her body's parameters (Not that she does) and more are all childsplay."

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

>"even a scratch"

>"the moment he's scratched"

>"Upon even a small scratch"

>"No damage actually needs to take place"

Make up your mind damn it.

It's still a 3D body against 1-C power though. And that's assuming he even lets her use that power once he conquers her.

 

[Akreious]

It's a 3D Vessel. Think about it as sort of a puppet; her true self is High 1-B and is puppeteering the puppet. You'd be fighting with a High 1-B Mind for control over this 3D body. And even then, it's merely a 3D body being dominated. Literally nothing would stop her from just plopping in a new one with no reprucussions at all.

And... no. Your domination will need to have shown anywhere near the level of potency of dominating an Ascended before you'd be able to control her. I'm actually pretty sure her true self is so unfathomably higher than Conquest that he'd literally be incapable of preceiving her. Good luck trying to control something you're incapable of seeing. PLUS you said it yourself; it's 1-C Domination Powers fighting a High 1-B mind.

Also "

scratch

skraCH/

verb

1. 1.

score or mark the surface of (something) with a sharp or pointed object." Nothing implies actual damage.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

A scratch is actual damage, even if it is only a small amount

And he wouldn't be fighting her High 1-B mind. He wouldn't even need to see it. Having a strong mind and resisting mind manipulation doesn't stop his Domination powers working.

 

[Akreious]

"And he wouldn't be fighting her High 1-B mind. He wouldn't even need to see it. Having a strong mind and resisting mind manipulation doesn't stop his Domination powers working."

This is the textbook definition of a NLF. Iblis' mind is literally infinite dimensions ahead of what anything your domination has EVER displayed. How the hell do you even begin to dominate something you're incapable of understanding on even the most basic level?

"A scratch is actual damage, even if it is only a small amount" Are you implying Erebus is somehow invulnerable to Iblis' attacks and will take no damage ever at all? One scratch. One.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Domination does not require the target's mind to be controlled. The AoC has conquered people and left their minds and wills completely intact, he's still conquered them.

That armour has let him take attacks on his level without any damage at all, and he's "at least 7-A" to Iblis's 7-A to begin with, so yes. I am implying that.

 

[DMUA]

Quickbumps

 

[DMUA]

 

[Akreious]

Quick-Revive.

"Domination does not require the target's mind to be controlled. The AoC has conquered people and left their minds and wills completely intact, he's still conquered them."

problem with this line of reasoning is that this is the textbook definition of a NLF. You're saying your domination works on a being who's exerting their will over a vessel who's mind that's controlling said vessel is infinitely upon infinitely upon infinitely (This goes on infinitely) transcends any of your level of Domination shown. Your domination will literally have to fight a High 1-B mind in order to control Iblis' body, and even if you dominate it, the High 1-B is still exerting its will over it. So unless your domination somehow works on such a level then I am not buying it. Just saying your domination works period is literally textbook NLF and would only fly if it's on a High 1-A/tier 0 level.

Edit: Oh and Ascendeds are above concepts (But still has infinite dimensions) so good luck dominating something without a concept of being dominated.

"That armour has let him take attacks on his level without any damage at all, and he's "at least 7-A" to Iblis's 7-A to begin with, so yes. I am implying that."

Iblis' 7-A is ultra-casual, as she considers a mountain-destroying nuke to be complete and utter small-fry; with the blades she has being considered some of the most dangerous things she's ever seen since her banishment from The Ascended. So yes, I am implying she's able to harm him to a level of at least a scratch. Your armour allows you to survive attacks unquantifiably higher than your level while Iblis considers her blades to be so dangerous that it surpasses herself's damage output (By an unquantifiable amount), who considers mountain destroying utter smallfry and fodder.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Technically speaking, he doesn't need to control her mind, her body, or her powers. On any level, 3-D to infinite-D. Conquering them is simply an status effect (for lack of a better word), and even if she can completely ignore the individual effects of that status, she is still under that status. And thus cannot do anything to him.

Every single Seraphim sees mountain-destroying as "small fry". Most of their feats come from waking up, rolling around in their sleep, or shouting a bit. Even the Sword of Darkness, which is in no way AP-orientated, is capable of pulverising mountains with a casual blast and it is considered by far the weakest of the God Swords.

... and why are you saying "your armour", but "Ibis' blades"? Seems an odd double-standard in your writing.

 

[Akreious]

"Technically speaking, he doesn't need to control her mind, her body, or her powers. On any level, 3-D to infinite-D. Conquering them is simply an status effect (for lack of a better word), and even if she can completely ignore the individual effects of that status, she is still under that status. And thus cannot do anything to him."

She isn't though. Her swords will be the thing doing something to him; something completely unrelated to her body itself. Actually, she is able to just stay in her mind-state and just repeatedly go at him with the swords via Telekinesis and he'd be completely unable to do anything as in this state, she's in High 1-B (At least her "body" is, not her AP).

"Every single Seraphim sees mountain-destroying as "small fry". Most of their feats come from waking up, rolling around in their sleep, or shouting a bit. Even the Sword of Darkness, which is in no way AP-orientated, is capable of pulverising mountains with a casual blast and it is considered by far the weakest of the God Swords."

Yeah, see problem is; the Swords Iblis has completely 1-shot 7-As and is unquantifiably higher than that. ArchAngel Michael in a battle of pure brawns is At least 7-A and stomps Iblis in terms of pure AP (Made up for with abilities). Yet her swords still are such a threat that he won't let them reach him.

And even if you don't take that, the way that Hell's Bane works is that the effect takes place at where the slice was struck; not any direct contact with Erebus. So even if Erebus can't be scratched; he'd still be cast infinitely across the magniverse.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, Since she considers Hell's Bane to be completely off-limits and extremely dangerous to the point that not even she wants to get hit by it, that'd would imply that it'd be capable of scattering even her mind across the Infinite Magniverse or else it'd simply cast her body across the infinite magniverse and she'd simply make a new body with no reprucussions. If we take this route, the Hell's Bane potency is powerful enough to affect a High 1-B mind as well as prevent High-Godly and resurrection from working properly

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He can conquer the swords too anyway.

Just two more to add to his collection.

 

[Akreious]

I edited reply.

And your domination ability prevents the swords from harming him; the Hell's Bane reality warping is a passive and a natural ability that occurs whether you mean to harm someone or not. It's not a consequence of harm; it's a consequence of performing a slash maneuver.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It prevents them from affecting him, not from harming him.

And your edit is great news for him, seeing as once he's conquered the swords, he just makes them cut Iblis and GG.

 

[Akreious]

Unless you're able to overpower a High 1-B mind posessing the Sword, that's not going to happen. Nor will she allow it as she's not stupid; she knows what she's fighting once she loses her body and she WILL know that the blade is the only thing he has that can possibly kill her (Since he didn't kill her mind from the get-go). High 1-B Possession >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Domination

"It prevents them from affecting him, not from harming him."

Nope, not at all what your page says.

"through the Authority of Conquest, he can "conquer" practically anything, animate or inanimate, physical or metaphysical, allowing him to control it and making it unable to harm him"

Edit: It also lends credence to the fact that Erebus being sliced by it spells his doom. The Sword will now affect him and one slice at his area will cast him across the Infinite Magniverse with no chance of being pressed; therefore never allowing domination to work.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Mental power is not intrinsically linked to dimensionality.

Harm involves a lot of things. And I would consider being ripped into infinite pieces harm.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

And if you want to bring up "what your page says" there is nothing on your page about High 1-B minds possessing her swords.

 

[Akreious]

Mental power is not intrinsically linked to dimensionality.
Harm involves a lot of things. And I would consider being ripped into infinite pieces harm.

In the verse, it is. Her mind is High 1-B and therefore anything associated is.

I'd like to ask, where is there a feat of Domination working on an effect that's able to say "**** you" to High 1-B, High-Godly, Conceptless entity? I could also argue that the blade is so infinitely superior to domination that it doesn't even matter. OR, like I said above, since the blade is now established to actually be a viable threat, Erebus won't have a chance to use the Authority of Conquest's abilities.

"And if you want to bring up "what your page says" there is nothing on your page about High 1-B minds possessing her swords."

... What? Here's a exerpt of her My Body, My rules description.

My Body, My Rules: As Iblis isn't technically of the 3rd Dimension, Iblis has complete and total control over her body. The ability to stretch indefinitely, completely shapeshift, perfectly replicate another being's genome, enhance her body's parameters (Not that she does) and more are all childsplay."

Nothing here implies her body has to biological nor humanoid.

"Possession: Whilst incorporeal, Iblis gains the ability to go into someone else's body and control them manually. This grants usually grants them most of her "new" powers, and loses said powers after she leaves."

I admit I might've been a little bad at describing this; note the control them manually part. This isn't some magical posession; she's controlling the literal atoms of their body and chaining it to her will. This is why they gain her powers; as it's temporarily HER body then.

 

[DMUA]

Monarch accidentally found out The Dead Gods were 1-A thanks to Matt hopefully he won't go full Matt mode on FC/OC and go on a downgrade rampage and told me this in DMs in which he expressed extreme annoyance about this situation of "lol I'm secretly High 1-B" or so he says and stuff

So if nobody minds, if Monarch would like to explain the 1-A rating, then perhaps we should temporarily postpone this.