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Stats Equal Shapeshifter Tournament R1M7: Be'lakor vs Kakine
- Thread starter SuperDino85
- Start date
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Be'lakor should crush Kakine. Even if Kakine could hit Be'lakor, Be'lakor isn't made of mortal stuff so he won't be subject to getting vored, and Be'lakor's entire thing is spamming the Lore of Shadows, zerging people with ghosts that are also haxed to hell and back, and fate manipulation.
Any of those three ends the fight here, while Be'lakor has more than enough time and will to use them. Also, funny WHF skill means he isn't getting hit if he doesn't want to.
Any of those three ends the fight here, while Be'lakor has more than enough time and will to use them. Also, funny WHF skill means he isn't getting hit if he doesn't want to.
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Uhhh this wasn't what I was expecting.
Since I'm no Railgun supporter, I'm leaning towards Reaps but we'll wait for a supporter for Kakine.
Since I'm no Railgun supporter, I'm leaning towards Reaps but we'll wait for a supporter for Kakine.
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I mean there's not much to debate admittedly, it's literally "Guy with no resistances" versus "Guy who does NOT mesh with the other guy's mechanics. Oh and by the way he's a complete ******* haxlord"
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Oof oh well.
Reaps FRA
Reaps FRA
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Genuinely, if this wasn't a Daemon, there'd be a genuine argument to be made that I'd probably enjoy, but this is ******* Be'lakor of all characters. He doesn't play nice with people who aren't also haxlords. And while Kakine technically is also a haxlord, he focuses on matter manipulations, absorbing matter, and just generally ******* up anyone in the physical realm while also being incredibly hard to put down properly...
Be'lakor as a Daemon doesn't have matter or antimatter, can go intangible even to other Daemons at will if this is Restored key, and spams the hell out of his instant win hax or abilities that will win him the match. While also being stupidly ******* skilled.
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Also, I came in expecting the match you and I wanted. But oh well.
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- Thread starter
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Oh. Which one was that?
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This one, though, since you're the tourney creator, it's your choice.
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- Thread starter
- #10
Ah ok. Remind me for round two please
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Uhh are there any supporters that will even come here?
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Which key is this for Be'lakor? For Kakine it should be Post-Revival.
As someone who doesn't know some of those words I gotta ask: How do those things kill Kakine?
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By SBA Be'lakor would be in last key but that key can't exist in the materium so working assumption is that he's in his restored key automatically.
How does Kakine handle being thrown into better Genjutsu powered by pure 1-A smurfery? Or having entire armies who use Chaos lores of magic(Dhar, Chaos, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and usually either Death, fire, or Shadow) teleported onto him... and most of those lores have instant win hax. And Fate Manipulation just makes the opponent Be'lakor's ***** for lack of a better term, and it's a favorite of Be'lakor's too. So is just turning into his BS intangible form and spamming magic, or teleporting his castle onto the opponent like Castlevania Dracula.
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Smurf is equalized.
To answer your question: Simply creates a new mind with new sensory organs that is unaffected.
Go into more detail what those actually do for this particular character, please.
In general, probably by simply having one subatomic Dark Matter particle floating around who knows where and regenerating from that. Kakine's strength is that he, for most purposes, counts as a swarm of entirely separate entities and can spread out over a vast area very quickly.
So, should I imagine mind control via Fate Manipulation or...?
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Okay so Be'lakor gestures again. or puts everything anywhere near into an illusion. And this still doesn't deal with the fact that Be'lakor
Dhar can delete people, or corrupt them mind body and soul, Chaos does more corruption and transmutation, Tzeentch has BFR into hell realm or mindfuckery, for what actually works(So about a third of the spells), Nurgle is conceptual and info 2 murder diseases, Slaanesh is damn near exclusively mindfuckery, Fire is there because it is a common lore for Chaos to use, Death is a bunch of soul or instant death things(Like, 60% of the spells bunch), and Shadows specializes in ******* people up via illusions.
Keep in mind Be'lakor can dump like ten thousand ghosts who can all spam these lores to their heart's content, while also casting his own spells.
the problem from there is that Be'lakor would pretty quickly figure out something is happening
not even mind control, literally having your fate controlled. You can be fully knowledgeable of what's going on but Be'lakor has eight layers backing all of his hax(Seven from Aethyr layers, one from transcendence) and his Fate Manipulation lets him completely control the opponent down to rewriting their backstory and where they go next
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And Kakine just frees himself again, but this time there are more Kakine. Exponential growth goes brrr
Kakine starts out with countless bodies all over the place and each can create thousands of bodies more in an instant, which each can then continue that chain.
He quickly spirals beyond the point where ten thousand ghosts can kill him fast enough.
Sure, but for each moment that passes Kakine becomes harder to actually get rid off.
So on which scale does that operate? Would it affect all Kakine? Can he, like, control the fate of all people in the universe?
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Show me Kakine freeing himself from a conceptual and info 2-rated illusion that tricks Witchsight(Seeing everything to that level) and precognition good enough to see the fate the universe from start to finish.
Except of course this is beetle so be probably won't.
How about 10K ghosts spamming instant win attacks with massive ******* AoE?
And Be'lakor can cast power word: kill on the continent, he doesn't care about collateral. He may also just make Daemons happen, and uh... Good Effin' Luck if he decides to do that, Greater Daemons are busted.
It would affect all Kakine. Kakine as a concept and info 2 thing is having his fate revised to do what Be'lakor wants, including changing his entire history to something else.
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He doesn't free himself at all. He creates a new mind that was never caught in it to begin with.
?
Nowhere was specified that this is Beetle 05. This was supposed to be Post-Revival Kakine.
By the time the ghosts starts spamming there can be like ten times that many Kakine. And the ghosts have to be careful to not take out each other.
Does that erase matter?
What do they do which the ghosts don't?
I'm not saying it wouldn't affect Kakine. I'm questioning whether it would also affect Kakine #76 that for most purposes is a separate entity.
Unless you mean he can do things like make it so that Kakine is never born, which would be a fair point.
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Okay so Pit of Shades pulls that new mind into another dimension, sort of what Lore of Shadows does offensively besides illusions.
Depends on what SBA is saying on the matter TBH
and they can take out 100,000 Kakine in a single spell each, its not difficult for them. There's a LOT of random statements for mages being stupid broken in this verse and anyone who was nearly everchosen(what Be'lakor summons usually) is a level 4 mage, so the level before turning into a level 5 god. And really the only reason basic battles aren't just one mage deletes the other army is because they'll be busy counterspelling the hell out of eachother or fighting for control of that lightning bolt
Thank God they all resist their own powers then, huh?
Almost certainly.
A lot of very nasty passives, notably madness 3 and instant-acting corruption. That's just generally though, they each have their own special passive, like Lords of Change having power null to anyone not a sufficiently broken mage, or Great Unclean ones inflicting conceptual supercancer on anyone anywhere near them. Basically, Greater Daemons are busted.
Kakine would be a concept in this case and Be'lakor would be affecting all of him, wherever him is. Hell Be'lakor might choose to make it so he never actually died for kicks, hell Archaon was actually caught in this for a couple centuries and broke out because willpower helps you fight against magical fuckery in WHF, and Archaon just got tired of shit and broke out. Keep in mind this is the same Archaon who blindfolded himself and casually strolled through Tzeentch's crystal labyrinth with just his intuition and instincts guiding him besides his sheer will. This is the same one that occasionally confuses Lords of Change. Who are Nigh-Omniscient.
And none of this answers how Kakine would even kill or incapacitate Be'lakor, even if you delete his "physical form"(Air quotes, he's not really made of matter like I said) you still have the shadow to deal with because that doesn't go away unless you're Allarielle the Radiant and Teclis working together.
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So he can make it so that Kakine is never born? Yeah, then he wins.
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- Thread starter
- #22
Yep. As I suspected, this was hard for me to follow. Anyone else wanna jump in before we move on to the next match?
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Think everyone has decided be'lakor wins
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Just wanted to pop in here for some clarifications, Lore of Shadows alone already has a spell that can't be countered by Kakine, that would be Ribauld's Retroactive Illusion, which is an illusion that can be sent back into time to force the opponent to always have been in the illusion, thing Izanagi and Izanami combined together without any of the drawbacks, meaning the moment Be'lakor pulls it out, Kakine has always been in an illusion and the fight is over.
Lore of Nurgle also means, no matter how many duplicates are made, they'll all be spreading the most cosmically virulent and devastating plagues amongst each other, basically turning their numbers against each other as disease and poison spreads through their ranks, and their bodies, minds and souls melt down and dissolve, theses plagues would also be able on the flip side strengthen and and empower Be'lakor's side, making it all the harder of a fight.
Push comes to shove as well, Be'lakor can just start nuking in a number of different ways from casually valley crushing TK, to massive fire storms and tornadoes, banishing everyone into the Warp, creating a Purple Sun that steals souls by the hundreds, etc, a majority of which can all be also done by his army of ghosts, each of said ghosts being a former potential Everchosen (basically a messiah figure to Chaos and best of the best)
voting Be'lakor FRA
Lore of Nurgle also means, no matter how many duplicates are made, they'll all be spreading the most cosmically virulent and devastating plagues amongst each other, basically turning their numbers against each other as disease and poison spreads through their ranks, and their bodies, minds and souls melt down and dissolve, theses plagues would also be able on the flip side strengthen and and empower Be'lakor's side, making it all the harder of a fight.
Push comes to shove as well, Be'lakor can just start nuking in a number of different ways from casually valley crushing TK, to massive fire storms and tornadoes, banishing everyone into the Warp, creating a Purple Sun that steals souls by the hundreds, etc, a majority of which can all be also done by his army of ghosts, each of said ghosts being a former potential Everchosen (basically a messiah figure to Chaos and best of the best)
voting Be'lakor FRA
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He could even go so far as everything that has ever happened to Kakine has actually been building up and leading down an intricate road of events to his own fall, changing his fate until he just straight up meets Be'lakor and becomes Be'lakor's minion or just straight up rewrites it so that Kakine never got any powers or darkmatter or anything and was just a straight up normal dude.
His fate manip is crazy
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bump?
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- Thread starter
- #27
Belakor takes this round
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