Star Wars (Extended Universe) upgrades.

[Aparajita]

In the book Young Jedi Knights: Shadow Academy, Palpatine uses Telekinesis to rip apart a small star, then close it behind him to escape pursuit.

And in ,Fate of the Jedi: Vortex, the Falassani teach Luke to telekinetically alter the flow of gravity (to maniuplate black holes),

While battling UnuThul, Luke was able to resist the combined Force power of the Colony and triumph. When UnuThul attempted to Force Push the Grand Master, Luke rooted himself in the heart of the Force so strongly that it was said that he had become the very essence of the immovable object, and that not even the black hole at the center of the galaxy could move him. - Star Wars: Invasion: Refugees 1

More to that, in a different novel, During the Battle of Dantooine during the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own black hole against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle.

In Dark Tide: Ruin, Luke resists the gravitational pull of a Black Hole by rooting himself in the Force.


Now, i have to ask: these are in the Extended Universe, but are they considered valid? I don't have the novels on hand, but i could buy them if need be. Thoughts?

 

[Aparajita]

Le bumpy

 

[Aparajita]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I am not well informed about the matter, but Black Hole feats in fictio are generally considered unquantifiable, and wouldn't ripping apart a star be considered an outlier compared to the general levels shown? Also, don't our profiles strictly use the games and the comics, rather than the novels? Are the novels even coherent with each other, the games, and the comics?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I think Everlasting, Archon, and even Chaostheory could possibly help figure this out. But yeah, the black hole one is generally considered unquantifiable here like wht Ant said...

 

[Aparajita]

Generally speaking, we consider the novels to be of the lowest source. However, with the ENTIRE EU, including DE, becoming one branch from LucasArts' joining with Disney, i believe it should be taken into consideration.

Now, i don't think Sidious had the potential to do so on a day to day basis, i believe the entire scenario involved a Sith Sorcery that was highly prepped.

If need be, i'll read the SA again and find out the exact defining feats.

Abeloth, for example, was described as being "dozens or more" stronger tham him (Him being Luke at his peak). With Sith Sorcery and artefacts, Naga Sadow was able to destroy an entire Solar System, and this Sorcery is known by Sidious. Sidious is thousands of times stronger than Sadow was, shouldn't it be fair to scale him to the same degree?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. Did Sadow do that in a novel as well? Intuitively, it seems illogical that Sith lord should have power on that scale, as they wouldn't remotely need Death Star constructs if that was the case. I think that it may be better to keep the profiles as they are for the time being.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Intuitively, it seems illogical that Sith lord should have power on that scale, as they wouldn't remotely need Death Star constructs if that was the case.

This just reminds me of the fact that Satan in SMT built a lifewiping spaceship despite the fact he's a High Multiversal+ being.

Anyway, on topic, I wouldn't say it's unheard of (as it could possibly take a lot of energy), but is there more evidence for Sidious having the ability to perform a similar feat?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we should probably stick to the comics and the games to be on the safe side.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think that we should probably stick to the comics and the games to be on the safe side.

For the EU, correct? Because I was under the impression we considered official novelizations of the films to also be canon.

 

[Antvasima]

For the EU, yes. I am not well informed about the novelisations, but think that I read somewhere that they are inconsistent. Given thst this would create a massive upgrade, concerning lots of characters, with lots of contradictions involved, I would prefer if we skip it. At leadt without confirmation that it is all considered canon and fully compatible with each other.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

For the EU, yes. I am not well informed about the novelisations, but think that I read somewhere that they are inconsistent.

I've actually heard the episode VII novel is pretty consistent with the movie, though I have not read any of the novelizations, myself.

 

[Antvasima]

Some of them may be, but with so many different authors and genres, there are bound to be massive inconsistencies

 

[Aparajita]

I don't know. Did Sadow do that in a novel as well? Intuitively, it seems illogical that Sith lord should have power on that scale, as they wouldn't remotely need Death Star constructs if that was the case. I think that it may be better to keep the profiles as they are for the time being.

Naga Sadow destroys a Solar System to escape from enemies, Darth Bane's Thought bomb destroys all life, similar to Vitate's consumption feat.

It's fairly consistent throughout the series.

Most of the strongest Sith users have the ability to destroy huge amounts of things, it's just all of the strongest Force abilities require prep, usually. Vitate's ritual, and Bane's Thought Bomb are able to be used much quicker, but that's regardless, as Bane's TB required a specific "Wellspring" of Dark Side energy, which came from the Battle of Ruusan.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Well, Naga Sadow simply detonated a star (Assumed to be regular Star level). The life of the solar system would naturally die without a life-giving sun.

However, since this happened within the Dark Horse comics, if I understand correctly, I suppose that it is legitimate. I have no idea how to rescale the EU characters from this however? They certainly should not have Star level durability in any case.

 

[Aparajita]

Hmm. Well, Naga Sadow simply detonated a star (Assumed to be regular Star level). The life of the solar system would naturally die without a life-giving sun.
However, since this happened within the Dark Horse comics, if I understand correctly, I suppose that it is legitimate. I have no idea how to rescale the EU characters from this however? They certainly should not have Star level durability in any case.

I believe that the upgrade should apply to: Sidious, Vader (Who is 80% of Sidious), Luke, Abeloth, and... that's about it.

I don't know where to scale their durability to, however. Perhaps the same?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if they could protect themselves from star level attacks, no ordinary spaceships, or even death stars, would pose any threat to them, so it seems illogical.

 

[Aparajita]

Well, if they could protect themselves from star level attacks, no ordinary spaceships, or even death stars, would pose any threat to them, so it seems illogical.

With the exception of Abeloth, who wasn't harmed, but sealed away again.

Understand that the Death Star(s) was created to resist the Yuuzhan Vong War, not to fight a bunch of Rebels or Jedi.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, wasn't new one constructed in the original movie trilogy in order to fight a bunch of rebels and Jedi?

 

[Aparajita]

Well, wasn't new one constructed in the original movie trilogy in order to fight a bunch of rebels and Jedi?

No, actually. Sidious and Plagueis (his Sith Master) knew of the existence of the Yuuzhan Vong through a Force Vision that was recieved a thousand years before, durin the time of Darth Bane.

 

[Antvasima]

All right, but why would they need a Death Star, if they could do more damage on their own?

 

[Aparajita]

All right, but why would they need a Death Star, if they could do more damage on their own?

Because the Yuuzhan Vong are "completely outside of the Force", meaning that direct Force abilities, like Lightning, doesn't affect them, and can cut enemies off from the Force with their own twisted Sorcery.

 

[Antvasima]

All right then.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

So will they be upgraded to star level? If so, they should probably be considered glass canons unless they have comparable durability feats.

 

[Antvasima]

@TheMightyRegulator I agree.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Technically the Force works in that it allows one to use both offensive and defensive energy in equal measure. Yes they can use more energy in one or the other depending on their goal (Such as protecting themselves or going all-out), so if this were to be accepted (However, I believe that this is a very prep-heavy method and thus can't be used in regular combat, though I am more familiar with the pre-movies EU, so there's probably someone better to ask), a glass cannon idea cannot be used.

 

[Antvasima]

All right then. There are massive inconsistencies involved though. Can you ask ChaosTheory123 to weigh in on the matter here?

 

[Aparajita]

The only ones who should recieve a DC upgrade will be Sidious, Luke, Abeloth and Vader.

Abeloth should have higher durability than Luke's DC, because "nothing Luke did affected her" and "she's dozens or more stronger in the Force than Luke was" and Force Barrier / Durabilities is directly affected by your connection to the Force.

Then it should be Luke Skywalker, being the strongest Force user in history.

Then it should be Sidious, as he's *far* stronger than Naga Sadow.

And then, barely making the calculation, should be Vader, as Lucas confirmed that Vader is "80% of Sidious's power in the EU" if this warrents an upgrade for him, i don't know.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if ChaosTheory123 thinks that it is okay, I suppose that it is probably fine.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Well, if ChaosTheory123 thinks that it is okay, I suppose that it is probably fine.

...

No

Its not

Because the feat where Aleema Keto (not Sadow, he had actual control of this power, able to precisely cause Solar Flares instead) wrenched the core out of a star requires them to be amplified by the power of Naga Sadow's Sith Corsair

Only accolades in the mythos that might even lend to scaling from feats done by the Corsair are solely applicable to the Mortis Trio, Abeloth by proxy of defeating the Son and Daughter, and the "omnipotent" Bedlam Spirits (they're not omnipotent, but they are more powerful than anything else shown in the franchise apparently)

 

[Aparajita]

Well, if ChaosTheory123 thinks that it is okay, I suppose that it is probably fine.

Because the feat where Aleema Keto (not Sadow, he had actual control of this power, able to precisely cause Solar Flares instead) wrenched the core out of a star requires them to be amplified by the power of Naga Sadow's Sith Corsair

That is incorrect, Chaos. Sadow was the one with the power, as i said above. And, as i said above, it requires preperation for him to achieve that level of power.

Much like Vitate's ritual, or Bane's thought bomb.

This is not a strict upgrade instantly to Star level, this is "standard tier here, star level with preperation."

In DC it will say "Moon level+, should be superior to Vitate, Star Level+, should be far superior to Naga Sadow" for Sidious.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

That is incorrect, Chaos. Sadow was the one with the power, as i said above. And, as i said above, it requires preperation for him to achieve that level of power.
Much like Vitate's ritual, or Dane's thought bomb.

This is not a strict upgrade instantly to Star level, this is "standard tier here, star level with preperation."

In DC it will say "Moon level+, should be superior to Vitate, Star Level+, should be far superior to Naga Sadow" for Sidious.

...

Reread Tales of the Jedi

Do I have to actually post the scans?

Vitiate's not a cogent example. Once he completed his ritual, he had consumed to most powerful dark side nexus ever formed in the galaxy to that time period. The power was forever his. Bane's cogent, but his power's compared to Thon's and the Ritual on Ambria by the psychometric sensing of Darth Cognus thus moot.

 

[Aparajita]

Reread Tales of the Jedi

I will reread Tales. I'll speak more on the matter when i do so.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Here, let's just kill two birds with one stone

More expositio

I can also link Sadow causing a Supernova via chain reaction from the same ship if need be

Summary though?

Leave your pages as they are if all you've got going on as an argument is using feats done on the Sith Corsair

 

[Aparajita]

Leave your pages as they are if all you've got going on as an argument is using feats done on the Sith Corsair

I haven't been able to read Exar's Arc, i can't seem to find a working site to do so. I was under the impression that Sadow had the power and the Corsair worked to empower him further.

That is incorrect?

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Like I said though?

Only the Mortis Trio have the accolades to feasibly scale to this

In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can.

^While the power stems from amplification by Sith Sorcery and Alchemy, wrenching the core from that Star is achieveable by mortal means.

There, they discover three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before.

^Jedi had witnessed shit like Keto wrenching the core out of that Star.

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force.

^Fluff accolade, but just high lights the disparity between them and other Force users sans Full Potential reached Anakin and Luke.

Father's also the most powerful Force user to date (Chee's Holocron keeper and functions as word of god)

"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."

"As a sanctuary?"

"And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."

^The Father's words further corroborated by omniscient 3rd person narrative

"Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers."

Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded
The daughter death alone also causes the Force to further fall out of balance. Being the incarnation of the Light side probably has a hand in it too.

"The incarnation of the light side of the Force, the Daughter serves as a suppressor on the Son, thwarting his efforts to escape from Mortis and battling him for dominance."

Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

"As the Daughter dies, the Force beings to fall out of balance. Using her last strength, the Daughter serves as a channel for the Force, releasing her ebbing life energies to revive Ahsoka and remove the dark side's stain."

Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

 

[ChaosTheory123]

I haven't been able to read Exar's Arc, i can't seem to find a working site to do so. I was under the impression that Sadow had the power and the Corsair worked to empower him further.
That is incorrect?

This is Sadow

"per his Sith Spirit and talisman being required to summon the Ancient Threat on Yavin IV alongside of the spirits of Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord, and Exar Ku and their own respective talismans, it can be inferred they're all roughly comparable to [though not equal to] one another in terms of raw power. Vitiate also considered Sadow a viable threat to himself, even long after his ritual on Nathema. Also possessed the power to conjure Force Storms"

^The Force Storms are inferred by the fact Nadd knows how to use them and he basically came to Sadow as a former padawan.

His Corsair further bolsters his power to a ridiculously high degree which lets him do feats like the one I linked about Aleema Keto (she's much weaker than him and using his ship to do this shit)

 

[Aparajita]

Wait. Isn't that the same Son and Daughter who Anakin casually ragdolled in the Clone Wars series?

Pardon the ignorance,

 

[ChaosTheory123]

He was amped off of the power of Mortis, the Fulcrum of Force power in the universe

Basically all Force energy flows through Mortis

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Thank you very much for the help ChaosTheory123. So should we consider this matter done with and close the thread?