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Ssj2 Kefla vs GoD Candidate Toppo

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Kefla gets slapped. Toppo far outclasses her in power as well as ability.

She gets hakai'd.
 
Inconclusive, but given that Toppo is giving BSSJB Vegeta a hard time, I think at least substantial. Kefla's strongest attack, which could "Wipe out an entire universe," did nowhere near the same damage to either the arena or the World of Void itself.
 
Doing damage to the arena is completely irrelevant as Berserker Kale completely warped the landscape herself, countless characters effortlessly plow through the material it's made of, and it's an unquantifiable feat in itself.

SSB2 Vegeta is SSBKKx20 tier, it seems, and Kefla is above that considerably. Confirmed UI tier in power by multiple characters. Unless Vegeta is completely unable to surpass Toppo's barrier then Toppo isn't coming away with the victory here. Period.

Also, Round 2 is unfair to Toppo as we can't just assume it has no limits. Until we see UI tier power against the Hakai barrier this debate is pointless.
 
BlackMageVi said:
Doing damage to the arena is completely irrelevant as Berserker Kale completely warped the landscape herself, countless characters effortlessly plow through the material it's made of, and it's an unquantifiable feat in itself.
SSB2 Vegeta is SSBKKx20 tier, it seems, and Kefla is above that considerably. Confirmed UI tier in power by multiple characters. Unless Vegeta is completely unable to surpass Toppo's barrier then Toppo isn't coming away with the victory here. Period.

Also, Round 2 is unfair to Toppo as we can't just assume it has no limits. Until we see UI tier power against the Hakai barrier this debate is pointless.
Click to expand...
Lol wot.
 
Whis confirms her power is SSBx20 tier via scaling to the Spirit Bomb. Piccolo states she surpassed Goku's initial UI. Roshi says that if one of her attacks hit in her "Final Weapon" mode she'd kill him in one shot. She's even able to graze him despite the form's entire purpose being ridiculous dodge hax.

People sleep on Kefla's power really intensely. SSB2 Vegeta hasn't given us any reason to assume he's UI tier and Toppo doesn't have the feats to compete yet. A single low 2-C feat and will be fighting a SSBx20 tier charcacter. If SSB2 beats Toppo in the coming episodes without UI tier power, Toppo can't scale to her.
 
I feel like I should mention something.

SSJ1 Kefla>>>SSJBKKx20 Goku (3-A)

SSB2 Vegeta => SSJBKKx20 Goku (Low 2-C)>>>>>>>SSJB Goku (Post-Kefla) => 2nd Ultra Instinct>>>SSJ2 Kefla>>>>SSJ1 Kefla>>>>>SSJBKKx20 Goku (3-A)


Kefla isn't stated to be above current SSJBKKx20 Goku.
 
Toppo takes this. Kefla isnt anywhere near the power of a G.O.D. while toppo is a freaking Candidate for G.O.D. yeah, i dont think kefla can counter the god's energy either. Toppo takes round one with mid diff, and round two might as well be a stomp for toppo.
 
Even if Kefla was superior to him, she wouldn't get past his Hakai technique in round 1, nevermind his Hakai barrier in round 2.

But since Toppo => SSJB2 Vegeta>>>>SSJ2 Kefla then Toppo has the advantage.
 
While I'd rather wait to see more of what GoD Toppo is capable, I've got to give my opinion.

No matter what way you do this, Toppo wins. Kefla is not in his league to begin with and his destruction energy just completely seals the deal.
 
We basically know enough info to do this fight imo, or at least declare a winner. But yea, I agree. If this much power is coming from a G.O.D candidate, I wonder how powerful an actual G.O.D is. They would be at least stronger then UI goku and SSJB2 Vegeta from what we have seen.
 
SSJB KKx20 Goku is equal or relative to his first plateau in UI due to breaking his limits twice, something which is corroborated by Whis. Vegeta is likely equal to Goku's first iteration of UI due to also breaking HIS limits, which is expressly told to us by Whis and the Grand Priest. Kefla is around the same plateau (Goku's first UI iteration) If Vegeta struggles with or is not as powerful as Toppo in BSSJB, it's rational to assume that Toppo > Kefla in SSJ2 + Berserk.
 
Bombzilla said:
We basically know enough info to do this fight imo, or at least declare a winner. But yea, I agree. If this much power is coming from a G.O.D candidate, I wonder how powerful an actual G.O.D is. They would be at least stronger then UI goku and SSJB2 Vegeta from what we have seen.
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Apperantly, if we go with what belmod said, toppo is as strong as a god of destruction in general, meaning that toppo maybe above some, and weaker than others.
 
My vote's Kefla round 1, inconslusive round 2. Toppo beating down BSSJB Vegeta means nothing. BSSJB Vegeta fought roughly on par with Blue Kaio-Ken 20x Goku, while SSJ2 Kefla was mollywopping Goku to the point he went UI. Also, UI clearly made Beerus worry, and Kelfa was stated to be stronger than (or at least on par with) UI Version 1. That means that she's on the same level as Toppo, a little below full GoD levels. She should be able to resist his hakai as she she is on a similar level of power. Given that Frieza/Goku could resist Hakai while being weaker than the user, if you're similar in power you should be able to resist. I personally beleive that Kefla could break through his Hakai Armor, as if you can resist his Hakai the armor should be the same, but there isn't enough evidence so it's incon.
 
It's okay to overestimate Kefla but you guys are ignoring the fact that Goku didn't recovered after his fight with Jiren. SSB Kaioken was beating SSJ1 Kefla initially & UI wasn't mastered yet.
 
@Chartate101

Except Goku broke his limits again and his SSBKK20 puts him low 2-C and is comparable to his UI. Vegeta is comparable to that at this point. Also, nothing suggests that Kefla is GoD level. She has never been compared to them, ever. Unlike Toppo, who was stated to be a candidate and whose power warped the World of the Void.

Also, Frieza and Goku resisted only a small amount of Destruction Energy. Frieza was able to compress it but he did that with difficulty. Not too mention, when he tried that with Toppo's to less than perfect results. Frieza has some experience with dealing with that stuff and couldn't do it. I very well doubt that Kefla could even attempt to it. She has nothing to suggest she could break through that Destruction Aura.
 
I'm still not seeing any proof presented of this supposed "Goku became Low 2-C as SSBKKx20". Nowhere was this stated or shown as far as I'm aware. I don't think Goku had been stated to become UI tier in just SSBKKx20 in any of his fights.

If I'm wrong, by all means continue, but baseless assertions like this are frankly totally ridiculous and I'd like to see some sources first.
 
Go watch two weeks ago's episode. Goku was able to competently fight against Jiren in both SSJB and SSJB KKx20. In 109 and 110, even in SSJB KKx20, Jiren was able to very easily smack him away and Goku couldn't even push him at all, let alone get a decent hit in. It's very obvious that each time he breaks through his shell, he gets stronger. It's first corroborated by Piccolo about Kefla, then by Whis in that each time he achieves UI that he needs a stronger stimulus, and then finally visually shown in that he can competently fight Jiren (don't make the argument he was holding back, because he was in 109/110 as well.) and that Vegeta's new form (which is literally stated to be his limit-breaking "shell broken through" form) is equal to Goku's new plateau, which would corroborate Vegeta's new form being roughly comparable to Goku's first iteration of UI.

Then, Toppo is seen smacking around this new form of Vegeta's, which is comparable to UI as Kefla was stated to be ("She may have even surpassed Son's earlier level!" - Piccolo) and since Vegeta is likely about to power up massively, I think he will be put ahead of her in that aspect, as well.

Therefore:

Jiren > Goku (Current UI) >= Possibly Vegeta (Full Power BSSJB) > Toppo (GoDC) > Kefla >= Goku (First time UI) = BSSJB Vegeta
 
BlackMageVi said:
I'm still not seeing any proof presented of this supposed "Goku became Low 2-C as SSBKKx20". Nowhere was this stated or shown as far as I'm aware. I don't think Goku had been stated to become UI tier in just SSBKKx20 in any of his fights.

If I'm wrong, by all means continue, but baseless assertions like this are frankly totally ridiculous and I'd like to see some sources first.
Click to expand...
SSJB Goku (Post-Kefla) was able to fight h2h against Jiren for a while who at that point powered up even further than what he was when he fought Ultra Instinct when he previously had gotten stomped. Then when Goku turned KKx20 he alongside Vegeta were setting him off.

That's why his Low 2-C key isn't limited to Ultra Instinct anymore. Post-Kefla battle he is Low 2-C.
 
"Jiren > Goku (Current UI) >= Possibly Vegeta (Full Power BSSJB) > Toppo (GoDC) > Kefla >= Goku (First time UI) = BSSJB Vegeta"

This is not completely accurate, but eh.
 
Of course it's not like 100% law, but It's me being as objective as I possibly can be based on everything we know and how we scale characters. I think that serves as a good metric to the "Could Goku defeat Beerus?" question as well.
 
Its impossible to be accurate in dbs.

I'd leave the scaling between these two as unknown until we see more of GoD toppo.
 
Well, that's why I'm saying presumably. After next episode, I think we'll have a better indicator as to where UI and comparable new forms stack up to the Gods of Destruction.
 
Considering Vegeta had no power ups prior to his SSB Final Flash and was seen fighting roughly even with base Toppo earlier, I would say that's pretty damning against the argument that SSBKKx20 is now somehow Low 2-C. Considering SSB Vegeta is apparently comparable to base Toppo, and Toppo was still being overwhelmed by SSB level fighters, it's pretty clear that Goku hasn't gotten much stronger. When you compare base SSB Vegeta's performance to base SSB Goku, there isn't much difference between the two fighters. Hell he even seemed to be doing better against Jiren than Goku did. At least Vegeta knocked Jiren down. Personally I'm not opposed to solidifying Toppo as stronger but I just don't see how it could be considered legitimate yet.

There's also the issue of Kefla, according to Roshi, having enough raw power to kill UI Goku in one shot or at the very least defeat him. Is new SSBKKx20, if it truly is Low 2-C, stronger than the UI Goku that fought Kefla? I doubt that's the case. I won't push this any further though. Either way, it brings up the far more interesting notes for Vegeta and Toppo.

If we're going this route we should also be taking into account Vegeta's Final Flash. Being comparable to the Spirit Bomb, even indirectly, is a pretty good indicator of its power which would mean it's at least 20x more powerful than Vegeta himself. Maybe we could add that to his profile? It at least deserves to be kept in mind for next Episode if we don't add the ability to Vegeta's profile. If Toppo survives a fully charged Final Flash from SSB2 Vegeta, that'll mean he's at least 20x stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku. Definitely something to watch for and it'll honestly be pretty exciting to see if it happens.
 
@BlackMageVi I don't understand what's so special about beating UI Goku. He was running out of stamina. Kefla isn't stronger than SSB KKx40 by any means.

Jiren is using lot more power than he used against UI Goku. Yet SSB Kaioken Goku & Limit Breaker Vegeta is resisting him. That alone can give them a Low 2-C rating
 
The real cal howard said:
I legit thought this said Kefka for a second and thought one, when did he get a Super Saiyan form and two, what did the best Final Fantasy villain ever do to you? ovo
Click to expand...
Ironically, one reactor I saw compared Belmod to him
 
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