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Imma be honest chief I don't know more than like 9 verses.

  • Standard Battle Assumptions
  • Speed is Unequalized for the Time Being (may be equalized if Spider-Man's Spider Sense is unbypassable, or Sonic blitzes)
  • Optional Equipment is not allowed
  • Mark IV Spider-Man is being used

Spider-Man (With Mark IV): 10

Sonic the Hedgehog (AoSTH):

They time travel to save Uncle Ben:

If this is a stomp, I would hope you temporarily stop your voting so that I can change keys
 
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Spider-Man vastly outskills Sonic in hand to hand combat, is leagues more agile, a generally more experienced combatant, and is virtually untouchable with much greater versatility. Even with Speed Equalized, Spider-Man takes this with very little difficulty.
 
...this feels like a stomp.

Like, what even are Sonic's wincons? Even Base Spider-Man looks like he'd walk over Sonic all webbed up
 
Sonic's win conditions include him being around as agile, having acrobatics in his key as well, and also surface scaling. Spider-Man can only react to Sonic with his Spider Sense, which may not even work since it only works on foes who's combat speed are comparable to his own, so it's possible that this is a Sonic speed blitz. For getting twhipped, Spider-Man's attack speed should be slow enough that Sonic can dodge with ease.
Essentially, here is a win condition list:

Sonic
  • Speed (Sonic has higher speed in Sub-Relativistic while Spider-Man without his spider-sense has Massively Hypersonic+ reactions, making it possible for a blitz)
  • Weakness Exploitation (Spider-Man doesn't take fight's seriously unless he has to. Spider-Man, logically, wouldn't take this fight seriously right away, as it's debatable that even in some situations such as him fighting the Sinister Six for the first time that he didn't take them seriously, and Spider-Man for sure wouldn't take a 3 foot hedgehog seriously right away)
  • Regeneration (cannot die to anything Spider-Man can throw at him, unless Spider-Man gets super serious and starts using attacks like the Mark of Kaine consistently and fast)
  • Tornadoes (can get Spider-Man trapped in a vortex unable to do anything, and since Spider-Man has no analytical prediction it'd take him a while before he could stop Sonic)
  • Spindash (Sonic can likely spin and cut up Spider-Man)
  • Toon Force (can get several tools to catch Spider-Man off guard, and can likely mimic how Deadpool screwed with Spider-Man in that one Ultimate Spider-Man episode, except he has more wincons than just Toon Force)
  • Range (if Sonic utilizes his abilities he has a large range advantage)

Spider-Man
  • Spider Sense (If Sonic attempts to use ranged attacks on Spider-Man, Spider-Man can easily dodge them due to his Spider Sense, or in any situation where Sonic's attack speed is massively superior to his combat speed)
  • Experience (Spider-Man has more experience in combat than Sonic)
  • Webs (If Sonic is caught off guard, he can be webbed up)
  • Possible AP advantage (6.5 megatons is Sonic's AP while Spider-Man's AP is just around the same level as Rhino's, who has Large Building Level+ because he's a bit stronger than Spider-Man, who's that strong because he destroyed two tanks and can spar with Venom, because he can easily fight all of Spider-Man's villains and friends... I think you get the point.)
  • Stealth (if Sonic ever runs into a building then Spider-Man could sneak up on him)
  • Spider Tracers (If Spider-Man can get a tracer onto Sonic, then he could use his homing attacks on Sonic, or even use explosives)
  • Electricity Manipulation (can deal damage to Spider-Man with electricity)

Sonic has win conditions. It's just not the first thing you see on the profile. Keep in mind, Spider Sense does not equal Combat Speed). However, i'm changing key from Mark IV, since Homing Attack allows Sonic to get easily twhipped almost instantly. Suggestions for keys to change to? Or should I even change it since Sonic does have win cons?
 
Sonic's win conditions include him being around as agile, having acrobatics in his key as well, and also surface scaling.
Spider-Man has superior version of that.
Spider-Man can only react to Sonic with his Spider Sense, which may not even work since it only works on foes who's combat speed are comparable to his own, so it's possible that this is a Sonic speed blitz.
No, this isn't the case, the thing you're referring to is the speed amp, which comes during those scenarios, Perception Manipulation should work anyhow
Weakness Exploitation (Spider-Man doesn't take fight's seriously unless he has to. Spider-Man, logically, wouldn't take this fight seriously right away, as it's debatable that even in some situations such as him fighting the Sinister Six for the first time that he didn't take them seriously, and Spider-Man for sure wouldn't take a 3 foot hedgehog seriously right away)
Ok I know what you're trying to imply, but you have to realize Spider-Man has very bluntly stated multiple times his banter has never been a factor of him not taking the fight seriously.
The first Sinister Six fight too, he's literally in high school during that, so that very blatantly shouldn't be a testament to his skills
Regeneration (cannot die to anything Spider-Man can throw at him, unless Spider-Man gets super serious and starts using attacks like the Mark of Kaine consistently and fast)
I mean Spider-Man wouldn't go for the kill anyways, just because they're willing to kill doesn't mean they WILL kill
Tornadoes (can get Spider-Man trapped in a vortex unable to do anything, and since Spider-Man has no analytical prediction it'd take him a while before he could stop Sonic)
?
Toon Force (can get several tools to catch Spider-Man off guard, and can likely mimic how Deadpool screwed with Spider-Man in that one Ultimate Spider-Man episode)
This isn't Ultimate Spider-Man. You wanna know what Spider-Man did to Deadpool incanon? Threw him from a skyscraper, and relentlessly beat him up given Deadpool can just survive everything he threw

Although honestly I think given Speed is Unequalized this makes the matchup REALLY weird. IDK, this then looks like a stomp the other way since Sonic blitzes off relevant wincons for Spider-Man here.
 
No clue what to do here tbh. Speed equalized and different form of Spider-Man?

Spider-Man has superior version of that.
Yeah but it's still comparable, pretty sure it is at least.

Perception Manipulation should work anyhow
Ah yeah good point I didn't remember that perception manipulation was in the profile. Spider-Man

Ok I know what you're trying to imply, but you have to realize Spider-Man has very bluntly stated multiple times his banter has never been a factor of him not taking the fight seriously.
The first Sinister Six fight too, he's literally in high school during that, so that very blatantly shouldn't be a testament to his skills
Yup I know all of this it's just what i'm implying. I know that he's in high school when he fights the sinister six, but he still doesn't take the fight seriously right away against a three foot hedgehog, it's literally stated as a weakness on his profile.

Basically, trap Spider-Man in a vortex that sends him flying up like a tornado, not very useful since he couldn't restrain for 24 hours, but still fine for combos or whatever.

This isn't Ultimate Spider-Man. You wanna know what Spider-Man did to Deadpool incanon? Threw him from a skyscraper, and relentlessly beat him up given Deadpool can just survive everything he threw
Using a simile here. I don't care what Spider-Man did to Deadpool, what I do care about is examples of what a Spider-Man not taking a fight seriously and then getting screwed around by toon force. Compare it to Mysterio as well.


this then looks like a stomp the other way since Sonic blitzes off relevant wincons for Spider-Man here.
Not necessarily, perception manipulation is an interesting point due to the fact that it could allow a suspecting Spider-Man to start using his Spider Sense to the fullest and begins predicting spider-man due to Sonic due to extremely superior intellegence and reaction speeds. It at the end of the day comes to how quickly Spider-Man begins taking Sonic seriously.
 
Spider-Man vastly outskills Sonic in hand to hand combat, is leagues more agile, a generally more experienced combatant, and is virtually untouchable with much greater versatility. Even with Speed Equalized, Spider-Man takes this with very little difficulty.
Would you like me to count your vote?
 
No clue what to do here tbh. Speed equalized and different form of Spider-Man?
I guess?
Yeah but it's still comparable, pretty sure it is at least.
I don't think so, both webs and surface scaling are LS reliant so most of them makes Spidey essentially Spider-Man has an unmovable variant of Sonic's shit
Yup I know all of this it's just what i'm implying. I know that he's in high school when he fights the sinister six, but he still doesn't take the fight seriously right away against a three foot hedgehog, it's literally stated as a weakness on his profile.
Huh, guess I'll CRT to remove that.

Alotta files tend to have relics of old-ass pagemaking, where people just put whatever on it without proof and face value statements
Basically, trap Spider-Man in a vortex that sends him flying up like a tornado, not very useful since he couldn't restrain for 24 hours, but still fine for combos or whatever.
...can't Spider-Man web out?
what I do care about is examples of what a Spider-Man not taking a fight seriously and then getting screwed around by toon force. Compare it to Mysterio as well.
I mean Mysterio has been rendered a pretty ineffectual villain in modern times, with Spider-Man just ignoring his fuckery.

So not really... a favourable example.
 
..can't Spider-Man web out?
Yup, that is actually what I was implying with he can't be restrained with 24 hours

I mean Mysterio has been rendered a pretty ineffectual villain in modern times, with Spider-Man just ignoring his fuckery.

So not really... a favourable example.
That's because Spider-Man is now used to Mysterio's illusions. So, if there's essentially a brand new version of Mysterio's illusions, that Spider-Man has no idea how to deal with. Sonic just has to rely on toon force like he does in the show, but yet again he doesn't really fight hard in the show.
 
Yup, that is actually what I was implying with he can't be restrained with 24 hours
No because the problem happens that I don't think it's restraining him for any significant period of time :V
That's because Spider-Man is now used to Mysterio's illusions. So, if there's essentially a brand new version of Mysterio's illusions, that Spider-Man has no idea how to deal with.
...I don't get this logic, unless he's working to counter it directly, I don't see why the source is a relevant factor.
Sonic just has to rely on toon force like he does in the show, but yet again he doesn't really fight hard in the show.
You DO realize Ultimate Spider-Man was a comedy series so Spider-Man's ineptitude was exaggerated greatly? He isn't gonna be that bothered by it and would try to focus his attacls on the source, i.e. Sonic
 
Alright ok.
No because the problem happens that I don't think it's restraining him for any significant period of time :V
He can restrain for a couple seconds of time before Spider-Man reacts due to being tossed and turned around. It's a matter of IF sonic can think of something to follow up on. Sonic can't repeatedly use this attack before Spider-Man gets the idea and hits him instantly however.
...I don't get this logic, unless he's working to counter it directly, I don't see why the source is a relevant factor.
Essentially, brand new ability Spider-Man has never deal with before and is one of Sonic's best tools to defeat Spider-Man with, as him never experiencing means he doesn't even know the ability or what it can do. It's something that Spider-Man can almost definitely get around eventually, but in the beginning it'd be one of Sonic's best options of attack.
You DO realize Ultimate Spider-Man was a comedy series so Spider-Man's ineptitude was exaggerated greatly? He isn't gonna be that bothered by it and would try to focus his attacls on the source, i.e. Sonic
Yes I know but toon force is a new ability that Spider-Man hasn't dealt with before. Even if he's taking the fight seriously how is he gonna react when he gets hit in the head with a hammer that Sonic pulled out of his back?
 
Essentially, brand new ability Spider-Man has never deal with before and is one of Sonic's best tools to defeat Spider-Man with, as him never experiencing means he doesn't even know the ability or what it can do. It's something that Spider-Man can almost definitely get around eventually, but in the beginning it'd be one of Sonic's best options of attack.
I just don't think it's a relevant enough advantage though :v
Yes I know but toon force is a new ability that Spider-Man hasn't dealt with before. Even if he's taking the fight seriously how is he gonna react when he gets hit in the head with a hammer that Sonic pulled out of his back?
...I mean he has fought weirder shit than just "I can pull a hammer out of my ass", Spot can do similar shit. Like, you do know this is the dude who fights a 7 foot guy in a bear suit relatively straightfaced, and he has interacted with Howard the Duck multiple times so I don't think a talking hedgehog is really THAT surreal to him.

Actually lemme look up if Spider-Man has ever fought Slapstick before, because the point is then moot entirely
 
Okay yeah if you want proof you can read Slapstick Vol 2 1 or Spider-Man/Deadpool Vol 1 19 Spider-Man VERY easily takes down Slapstick, who if you don't know, is a Mid-level Toon Force user without getting hit once, both instances
 
Speeed unequalised match and the character with lower speed won!!! that isn't something we see everyday
Spider-man FRA
 
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