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Sonic vs Dante
- Thread starter RubyVeronica
- Start date
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I think the default is their strongest keys if not specified
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- Thread starter
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Sonic at Super Sonic complex multiversal
Dante at DMC 5
Ang4I00
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Ignoring how this is 1-C vs Low 1-C, can Sonic kill Dante who has HGR and almost every immortality under the sun? Sensing the power gap, he would probably go SDT sooner rather than later and Sonic gets nuked by the passive time stop and Soul & fear & madness hax with 40+ layers.
Sonic's profile is quite big so Sonic supporters can elaborate on his wincons ig
Sonic's profile is quite big so Sonic supporters can elaborate on his wincons ig
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Pretty much what Angelo said.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I honestly feel like Metal has a better shot at this than Sonic since he can copy Dante's stuff and not get passively haxed to death.
AyOgUyS
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how layered?
AyOgUyS
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I think its just one layer (and said time stop has 6-D range if that matters)
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3 layers of Time Stop
DWE < Bangle of Time < SDT
DWE < Bangle of Time < SDT
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It's been a long time since I looked stuff over, and the profiles are sort of out of date rn due to a big problem that came up with scans dying en masse, but from what I recall, abilities/hax n shit can't directly affect Super Sonic unless they can effect Chaos Energy which is 6D and mega conceptual (it's like concepts > information > plot, etc.) I think this isn't well explained on the profiles rn, but there should be a crt for it later that helps clear that up. If Dante can affect a 6D Supersubstance of Concepts, Information, Plot, etc. then he should win.
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
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WTFF
ok uh...
how bout we unequalize speed?
then would super sonic's above baseline imm speed help?
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Sans plot, Souls in DMC are > CM1 and IM2. Obviously 5D,~~for now~~. So idk how that goes.
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Dante is infinite max, immeasurable is a blitz
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,741
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ok uh let's try different keys maybe?
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Dimensional hax aren't a thing. Chaos Energy is just 6D in nature due to being the supersubstance of the entire cosmology. There is levels of abstraction/fundamentals in Sonic, and the Super Forms are basically pure Chaos Energy which is why they basically neg almost every hax used on them and can expand an aura that neutralizes/nulls shit. If you can affect Chaos Energy, you are basically free to use whatever ability or hax you want on him. Otherwise you are kinda shit outta luck in short (Think of it like needing 5D range to affect a character that exists on a 5th dimensional axis).
AyOgUyS
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Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,058
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Time to plot some stuff iykwim.
Ang4I00
He/Him- 305
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If you need to interact with Chaos Energy to affect Super Sonic and it has a plot aspect then I guess it's incon since Sonic doesn't seem to have a way to kill him(unless he does)
Alternatively, I think Type 3 Madness doesn't need interaction since it's based on the enemy's perception, so he can maybe incap with that.
Alternatively, I think Type 3 Madness doesn't need interaction since it's based on the enemy's perception, so he can maybe incap with that.
Tanin_iver
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Yeah that works.
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Also to answer this, it would effectively mean his abilities aren't capable of affecting or meaningfully interacting with Super Sonic. I'm a bit tired but I think the rough levels of abstraction in Sonic are Plot and Information < Concepts (Dreams) < Greater Concepts(?) (Reverie Haven) < Illumina < Chaos Energy (Obviously 6D is somewhere in there too but I didn't think that was necessary to add). Each level of abstraction is more fundamental than the previous and is what allows the other to even exist. So ignoring they lack 6D interaction and Plot manip, assuming they did have that, I assume they would need to be able to interact with something as abstract as Chaos Energy which is more abstract than something more abstract than something more abstract than something more abstract than something abstract in nature. At least if I am recalling this all right.
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Maybe, not sure on that one. I'm pretty sure Chaos Energy has the capacity to drive off madness affecting the mind so it MIGHT encompass that but I need to consult other peeps to be sure first. I do think after a crt coming out later tho that'll maybe be covered.
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Intense Cognition Based Madness Hax of Demons - DMC Vol 1
Post with 4 views. Intense Cognition Based Madness Hax of Demons - DMC Vol 1
imgchest.com
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6 layers?
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Information would naturally fall below Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation anyway so that is a separate matter altogether.
Reverie Haven and Illumina also seem more like extensions/refinements of the dream hierarchy rather than entirely distinct ontological states so that would mostly qualify as layered conceptual scaling instead of fundamentally different abstraction types.
And Chaos Energy itself does not inherently imply some absolute metaphysical superiority chain either. From what I remember, it mainly supports higher-layer interaction/existence, not automatically transcending every prior abstraction category by default.
If Dante's passive hits then it's basically joeover but if Plot are directly intertwined with dreams and Chaos Energy then... There is a chance that Chaos Energy may just ignore all layers of Dante and hax stomp him as a result but then Sonic itself can't interact with Dante too? Ehh, shit gets very confusing here.
Basically:
- DMC = Names (Info2 + CM1) < Souls ~ Demonic Energy (45 layers)
- Sonic = Dreams (Plot + Info2 + CM1) ~ Chaos Energy (unknown layers, likely inferior)
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Sonic has Low-Godly negation + I see no resistance to Info type 2 manipulation... nor do i see a way for Dante to deal with Sonic's crazy speed + perception amps, nor a way for him to come back from Sonic's BFR
Specially with Sonic's sheer aura just... destroying Dante if as much as touches him
Sonic's page is undergoing MASSIVE scan restorations... so this should wait
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We are going through some important updates too so I'm inclined on waiting personally
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^ he is lying
Resistance to HGR-neg, Info2 + concept are inside the name, names are inside the soul, soul hax is everywhere in the verse
Speed is equal, Dante has a ton of amps + AD/RE that jumps infinities in seconds but he is the slower one so winning by blitzing isn't allowed.
Aye, BFR may be a wincon depending on where Sonic sends his ass.
can I see the page/blog/thread where that got accepted? The smurf stuff I mean.
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In the future ofc
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I would prefer to wait... but alright
BTW i see no resistance to Plot Manipulation/Destruction... so how would Dante come back from that?
But also how would Dante even get close to Sonic? His aura will make him continuously explode + It being Holy in nature against a demon is not exactly ideal for the Silver haired dude
How does Dante deal with Chaos Control? I am pretty sure dimensionality for Time Manipulation for Hypertimelines is still on the tabble
Sonic also has a ton of amps, and AD that lets him jump infinities in seconds
BTW i see no resistance to Plot Manipulation/Destruction... so how would Dante come back from that?
But also how would Dante even get close to Sonic? His aura will make him continuously explode + It being Holy in nature against a demon is not exactly ideal for the Silver haired dude
How does Dante deal with Chaos Control? I am pretty sure dimensionality for Time Manipulation for Hypertimelines is still on the tabble
He won't be able to come back that's for sure
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No, it's not layers. Layers is just being able to affect someone with a resistance. These are just how abstract these abilities are, aka how fundamental they are in reference to one another.
That's wrong. The wiki doesn't treat that as the default. It depends on how the verse depicts it.
It's in the blog shake made which covers this.
Ditto this. Everything mentioned prior to it is made of a less irreducible abstract force, with Chaos Energy being at the peak, being completely irreducible into a more abstract thing as it is what comprises the entire cosmology and its abstract forces.
Sonic doesn't have layers, what I listed wasn't layers, but levels to the abstraction of stuff in Sonic as accepted on the verse page. The only layered thing Sonic has right now is time manip (Until we make a massive revision for just layer stuff in Sonic)
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I very much doubt it compares to Dante, but like I said it doesn't matter because Dante is the slower character so him blitzing just makes the match null.
Didn't know sonic had plot manip outside of Darkspine but reading the justification... are we deadass? lol
The justification for super sonic having plot manip is "erazor had dreams of conquering the arabian nights" is that it? That should not have gotten anything related to plot. Just because Erazor had dreams, thoughts, wishes, desires, which the dream world ecompasses, doesn't make it plot manipulation.
Also, even the justification for Darkspine sonic is wrong since he explicitly wishes that the arabian nights get restored. It should be limited since he only restores the castle in which they fought, nothing else.
Resistance to holy stuff + demons in DMC aren't even weak to holy things to begin with.
Indeed. Sonic would need to use chaos control first thing to win, otherwise he is getting passive'd to death.
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We have the max amount of crts open for Sonic rn. I don't think we can have another one open rn
ShakeResounding
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Don't. The thread is at the verse thread limit, is in fact over it by around 3 threads, and all of them are on pause because the verse has a scan issue. You can have a draft ready but your thread is gonna be in a LONG queue.
This match should just be paused, as was suggested before your initial comment on this match.
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He went from FTL to Infinite in seconds, so yeah
Also if your dream is to control something... that something would be included in your dream, his dream was to command the Arabian Nights, which would become reality in Maginary World just like every other dream is
He undid the warping Alf Laya Wa Laya did, he just couldn't put everything back to the way it was, He still is using the Word Rings, which is what binds and controls the pages together, Alf's is just better
So he would still explode? Again, Explossive aura, Dante literally can't get close at all
By which passive? I don't see anything that would be a problem or that Sonic couldn't just purify/restore or just power through with his Willpower
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Exactly. It depends on how the verse depicts it as typical Information is contingent upon reality in most cases that would be more akin to CM2 whereas CM1 is beyond that threshold and frankly, your scaling chain seems to imply just that. In a world comprised of information, we may allow metaphysical equalization for the sake of matchup but this is not the case with Sonic's world that focuses on metaphysical substance like dreams rather then information purely.
Although, it would give another aspect to work upon via Chaos Force scaling so that's alright.
I know about it somewhat. Dreams are representation of Illumina that embodies it. Any scaling of dreams is just conventional scaling rather then pure metaphysical hierarchy.
Fair enough. That makes it comparable for both sides then besides the plot stuff which apparently is being argued upon above. Can I get the scans for aforementioned claims for Chaos Force just in case?
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bruh
My bad I didn't see that. As for the thread, I like sonic but not remotely enough to support the series in this place so depending on how much time passes I would have forgotten by then.
I was about to write more arguments but like the others said, verse is under revisions and a ton of threads still waiting.
Not like it matters since passive hax and layers are a thing.
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Stop wasting time here and go watch your anime or smth
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