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Sonic the Hedgehog: General Removals & Additions

ShakeResounding

ShakeResounding

He/Him
7,960
6,169
Introduction
Hello, everyone. We're back and faster than ever, and we've got a few things to amend with this CRT within the profiles. Thanks to @LaserPrecision, @Fireld, @omegabronic, and several other Sonic Scholars for their assistance in getting this stuff together.

Let's begin, shall we?

Additions & Removals
  • Infinite:
-Creation, Pocket Universe Manipulation, BFR, Sealing, & Dimensional Travel Negation (The Phantom Ruby Is able to shape an empty infinite space that is cut off from all Dimensions. Within this space, no one on Earth was able to contact or detect Sonic despite having the technology to communicate with Sonic from across dimensions)

  • Modern Sonic:
-Pocket Universe Manipulation & Enhanced Dimensional Travel (Was able to break through Null Space and return to Earth using a Double Boost)
  • This ability also scales to The Avatar.
-Void Manipulation (Conversion to Existence), Life Manipulation, & Space-Time Manipulation (Limited - Through his running. It’s noted by Classic Tails that when the Time Eater travels through time, it tears space apart and results in said locations being left as a void that leaves them "empty and dead". As stated by Modern Tails, both Sonics are able to accelerate through time to repair space as a consequence of their running; something he describes as “returning color and life”. In the JP script, the Sonics are noted to be restoring the flow of time by them running)

  • Shadow:
-Awakened Power for Adventure Shadow (Through experiencing powerful negative or positive emotions, Shadow will eventually attain a Dark or Hero state respectively that will render him impervious to damage and amplify his abilities. These states are referred to as the powers of good and evil being awakened from within him)
-Resistance to Ice Manipulation for Modern Shadow (Shadow can withstand and break free from being frozen solid)

  • Silver:
-Resistance to Ice Manipulation (Can break free from being frozen solid)

  • Knuckles:
-Resistance to Ice Manipulation (Can break free from being frozen solid)

  • Sonic Battle Cast:
-Replacing Durability Negation with Damage Transferal, Energy Absorption, & Forcefield Creation: The Ichikoro Gauge was accepted as Durability Negation under the reasoning that it allows the cast to instantly one-shot each other at full health. Upon further reasoning, this should simply be Statistics Amplification with the same explanations that should currently be in the profiles. By using their Guard Skill, they can create a pulsing purple energy shield that transfers half the damage received as energy to the Ichikoro Gauge. So each attack blocked is essentially adding energy to it.
  • Because of this, Resistance to Durability Negation is also removed. Instead, each of the characters who have it will get "higher with his/her Guard Skill" onto their durability section.

  • Classic Sonic:
-Regeneration Negation (High-Mid: Defeated Chaos 0 in a single blow, leaving it unable to reform despite his clones retaining the original's physiology)
-Extrasensory Perception (Able to see hidden items/objects through solid surfaces with the Treasure Scanner)
-Accelerated Development (Was able to quickly reach Modern Sonic’s level in his aid to the Resistance and is capable of outpacing him with a surprise head start. Quickly mastered techniques such as the Homing Attack and his own Boost during his encounter with the Death Egg Robot. Fought toe-to-toe with and defeated the Egg Dragoon with ease despite being a machine noted to have years of research on Sonic's movement patterns)
  • Yes, Mania Sonic should just flat-out scale to the Modern Era characters. This is something we've neglected on the profile for the sake of ignoring storytelling inconsistencies in lack of better options. How this will affect his tier is simple, he gets "Low 4-C to High 4-C, likely 4-A" for his Base key with inserted reasonings in the latter half. Classic Sonic will be getting a profile revision in the future to further improve his profile.
-Void Manipulation (Conversion to Existence), Life Manipulation, & Space-Time Manipulation (Limited - Through his running. It’s noted by Classic Tails that when the Time Eater travels through time, it tears space apart and results in said locations being left as a void that leaves them "empty and dead". As stated Modern Tails, both Sonics are able to accelerate through time to repair space as a consequence of running; something he describes as “returning color and life”. In the JP script, the Sonics are noted to be restoring the flow of time by them running)
-Resistance to Ice Manipulation (Can break free from being frozen solid)

  • Classic Eggman:
-Barrier Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Power Nullification, Hammerspace Nullification/Telekinesis (In the Sonic Mania shorts, Eggman's base had traps rigged to trap Sonic in a barrier that left him unable to move and even pried the Emeralds from within him. It also pried the Emeralds from within a super charged Metal Sonic whilst also canceling out his super charged state)

  • Modern Eggman:
-Dimensional Travel (Eventually escaped from White Space without any resources)
-Absorption (The Phantom Ruby-empowered Death Egg Robot absorbed Infinite and the Phantom Ruby prototype as explained in the Encyclospeedia)

  • Super Forms:
-Space-Time Manipulation & Offensive Time Travel (As shown when Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver fought Solaris, the Chaos Emeralds grant their users the ability to strike opponents throughout all instances of time from beginning to end simultaneously)
  • (As a result, Causality Manipulation will be removed. While an argument could be made for it to fit as such, labelling it as these instead is a much more direct application with less hoops needing to be jumped through.)

  • The End:
-Space-Time Manipulation(Stated they could break the wall between dimensions after Sonic had “removed the locks”, allowing them to escape from Cyberspace to wreak havoc)
-Interdimensional Range via Telepathy (Was able to telepathically communicate with Sonic even when sealed within Cyberspace)

That's A Wrap
Maybe the true removals and additions are the friends we made along the way... Thanks for joining me on this. And while I value my common blue names, I'll be keeping a staff tally only because I'm feeling a little lazy lol. Discuss!

Staff Agree: 1 (@Maverick_Zero_X)
Staff Disagree: 0

Staff Neutral: 0
 
Last edited:
As the one who made the doc for most of these changes, a big fat obvious agree. One thing I think should be discussed is this though
-Barrier Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Power Nullification, Hammerspace Nullification/Telekinesis (In the Sonic Mania shorts, Eggman's base had traps rigged to trap Sonic in a barrier that left him unable to move and even pried the Emeralds from within him. It also pried the Emeralds from within a super charged Metal Sonic whilst also canceling out his super charged state)
Click to expand...
It should be decided whether this is Hammerspace Nullification, Telekinesis, or both.

I feel it could just be TK on attrition of it ripping it out of Sonic, but I can also see it as HS Null since it removed it from within Sonic's body (Where he can store large objects he can seemingly pull out of his ass for later). Both is possible, but I wasn't sure of it. Everything else listed for the ability is straight forward tho.
 
ShakeResounding said:
-Creation, Pocket Universe Manipulation, BFR, Sealing, & Dimensional Travel Negation (The Phantom Ruby Is able to shape an empty infinite space that is cut off from all Dimensions. Within this space, no one on Earth was able to contact or detect Sonic despite having the technology to communicate with Sonic from across dimensions)
Click to expand...
This is the only part I disagree with, because we only apply this to the regular PR because this feat is tier 2. Unless this is the stealth tier 2 upgrade thread.
 
Theuser789 said:
This is the only part I disagree with, because we only apply this to the regular PR because this feat is tier 2. Unless this is the stealth tier 2 upgrade thread.
Click to expand...
This one is technically just High 3-A since they aren't created a separate space-time. Just an infinite space of nothing. Though we don't have to treat this as scaling to AP tbf, as of rn we can just treat it as only scaling to creation hax (There is a Tier High 3-A and Tier 2 CRT planned for later, so we can deal with it then). See no reason to apply it to only the regular PR when Infinite can create one tho.
 
Theuser789 said:
It's just cause this feat is already used as the justification of tier 2 PR.
Click to expand...
Creating Null Space? Ig we could change that tbf and just use Egg Reverie Zone as proof of that (Tho I think it'd just be easier to scale via hurting Super Sonic). The script/screenplay of Forces DOES say Infinite created Null Space after all
Dr. Eggman: Welcome, Sonic. Glad you could make it to your funeral! Infinite, do it.
Infinite: Take this! [Creates a portal]
Sonic: What is that?
[As Eggman speaks, Orbot and Cubot realize the severity of the situation and scamper away in the opposite direction in absolute fear.]
Dr. Eggman: Har-har. That, my spiky little frenemy, is null space.
Click to expand...
Just think it'd be fine to not scale it to physicals and give Infinite High 3-A creation hax only. Then the implications of that could be tackled in the Tier High 3-A/Tier 2 upgrade CRT I have in the doc for later.
 
Why is space-time manipulation limited? It doesn't look very limited, it's just sonic restoring space and time running, it should be even more impressive as a speed feat though (but we won't take that into account)
 
Alexander said:
Why is space-time manipulation limited? It doesn't look very limited, it's just sonic restoring space and time running, it should be even more impressive as a speed feat though (but we won't take that into account)
Click to expand...
Because Sonic hasn't used the space-time manip to do much besides restore color to the worlds and people. It's no like he was teleporting and reversing time or anything. Tho what makes a hax "limited" on the wiki is admittedly vague
 
Only one I disagree with is HDM for the End, I’m fairly sure breaking the walls between dimensions is referring to parallel dimensions and not spatial.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Because Sonic hasn't used the space-time manip to do much besides restore color to the worlds and people. It's no like he was teleporting and reversing time or anything. Tho what makes a hax "limited" on the wiki is admittedly vague
Click to expand...
If time was destroyed, and you restored it, why would it be limited? It would be more limited if it literally affected time, but only at a certain point in time and at a specific moment. but directly restores time,also more or less he does not use it again,but i don't think that means is limited.
 
JJSliderman said:
Only one I disagree with is HDM for the End, I’m fairly sure breaking the walls between dimensions is referring to parallel dimensions and not spatial.
Click to expand...
Do you not think the "wall between dimensions" is the boundaries of space-time? If The End is breaking the walls of space-time between dimensions to enter Sonic's universe and exit Cyberspace, that would be higher dimensional manipulation via affecting time.
 
It’s literally just traveling from one dimension to the other.

Unrelated but I think Sonic restoring space time should be given an actual rating, even if it’s just with hax, considering he is fixing space time on a universal scale.
 
JJSliderman said:
Unrelated but I think Sonic restoring space time should be given an actual rating, even if it’s just with hax, considering he is fixing space time on a universal scale.
Click to expand...
I wasn't planning on adding any tier adjustments related to Tier 2 considering there's a future CRT for that, so it'd seem disingenuous if I added it here.

That being said, if it isn't a point of contention for most others then I'm not opposed to possibly adjusting it. I doubt this is the best CRT for that, though.
 
JJSliderman said:
It’s literally just traveling from one dimension to the other.

Unrelated but I think Sonic restoring space time should be given an actual rating, even if it’s just with hax, considering he is fixing space time on a universal scale.
Click to expand...
By breaking the wall between dimensions. It's not like you can just casually walk between two separate dimensions. Sonic broke the locks, and The End broke the "wall" between the two dimensions. It's not like this has any offensive use. It just means The End can open up holes between two space-times to travel to another one.
 
How is that higher dimensional? Is just destroying a timeline all you need to have “higher dimensional manipulation” because I’ve never heard that argued before.
 
JJSliderman said:
How is that higher dimensional? Is just destroying a timeline all you need to have “higher dimensional manipulation” because I’ve never heard that argued before.
Click to expand...
They're not destroying a timeline tho, lol. If they did, Sonic's universe would be gone. It should just be labeled dimensional manipulation (Tho it's technically HDM in this case since it involves the fourth dimension). The End just broke a hole in the boundaries of space-time that separates two realities. It'd be Dimensional Manipulation via The End creating creating a hole in two space-times to enter and exit one.
 
I decided to watch this quickly (so I didn't find out everything, and I'm not going to argue for or against), but for this part I want to say something:
ShakeResounding said:
Fought toe-to-toe with and defeated the Egg Dragoon with ease despite being a machine noted to have years of research on Sonic's movement patterns)
Click to expand...

I don't know if C.Sonic should scale to Modern Sonic, but I don't think this is a valid reason at all because of Eggman's and Tails' own comments:


We know that he has lost at least 10% of his strength, and Tails immediately says that he is lying, implying that it is an undetermined percentage higher than what Eggman says
 
Sparkive said:
I decided to watch this quickly (so I didn't find out everything, and I'm not going to argue for or against), but for this part I want to say something:


I don't know if C.Sonic should scale to Modern Sonic, but I don't think this is a valid reason at all because of Eggman's and Tails' own comments:


We know that he has lost at least 10% of his strength, and Tails immediately says that he is lying, implying that it is an undetermined percentage higher than what Eggman says
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Eggman is talking about the robots health. He says the dialogue after losing a fraction of his health bar to Sonic. If he says it even when he doesn't take damage in the fight, I'd be inclined to believe it tho
 
It says Combat Strength, which should cover not only his defense/health, but his overall
Although yes, the dialogue seems to activate after being hit at least twice.
 
Sparkive said:
It says Combat Strength, which should cover not only his defense/health, but his overall
Although yes, the dialogue seems to activate after being hit at least twice.
Click to expand...
I figured combat strength would decrease with health/durability given the less functional/durable the robot is after taking a beating, the weaker its attacks would be. But yeah, if it triggers only after some attacks, it seems like Classic Sonic just weakened it with attacks.
 
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