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So... Low 5-B to Imperator Titans?
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Some Warhammer 40,000 Rescaling
- Thread starter Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot
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- warhammer 40000
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- #42
Potentially. I'd have to read more of what they can do.
They're insanely above Warlords, and while Warlords are powerful, they'd be nothing special by daemon standards. Cherubael, who is a daemonhost (the bound daemon is a former daemon prince, iirc), destroyed a Warlord (an extremely large one, too) with negative difficulty.
They're insanely above Warlords, and while Warlords are powerful, they'd be nothing special by daemon standards. Cherubael, who is a daemonhost (the bound daemon is a former daemon prince, iirc), destroyed a Warlord (an extremely large one, too) with negative difficulty.
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- #43
It doesn't help that Titans are archetypes of the "nobody can agree on what these can and can't do" that happens in some parts of 40k.
I mean, look at this.
Cherubael, who is a powerful daemonhost, can absolutely destroy a Warlord Titan.
Cherubael is nothing compared to Greater Daemons, or even another Daemon Prince who is unbound.
A Lord of Skulls is a daemon engine imbued with the essence of a caged Bloodthirster, a Greater Daemon of Khorne.
Three Lords of Skulls for some reason felt the need to gang up on a Warhound Titan, which is below a Reaver, which is below a Warlord.
Like, what? I mean, you can argue that they didn't actually need to, but still.
I mean, look at this.
Cherubael, who is a powerful daemonhost, can absolutely destroy a Warlord Titan.
Cherubael is nothing compared to Greater Daemons, or even another Daemon Prince who is unbound.
A Lord of Skulls is a daemon engine imbued with the essence of a caged Bloodthirster, a Greater Daemon of Khorne.
Three Lords of Skulls for some reason felt the need to gang up on a Warhound Titan, which is below a Reaver, which is below a Warlord.
Like, what? I mean, you can argue that they didn't actually need to, but still.
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Also I'm pretty sure that even deamon princes take the time to posses these things, but I could be wrong.
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- #45
They definitely sometimes do.
I'm also fairly certain there was an instance of a Reaver one-shotting a Warlord, though to be fair I think said Reaver was possessed by Drach'nyen.
Anyway, hey ArbitraryNumbers, think you could put the calc in a blog or something so we can get it evaluated?
I'm also fairly certain there was an instance of a Reaver one-shotting a Warlord, though to be fair I think said Reaver was possessed by Drach'nyen.
Anyway, hey ArbitraryNumbers, think you could put the calc in a blog or something so we can get it evaluated?
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So if even deamon princes think they are useful, that would make them at least Low 5-B, right?
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Oh yeah quick thing I found a dimension for the Leman Russ not sure if its right but here: 60 tons, 7.08m long, 4.86m in width, and 4.42 m in height.
I'm pretty sure this was from codex 5? and its also in the Lexicanum.
@MasterOfArda
Eh it could just be for killing lower level opponents at long range. Like how a lot of sci-fi characters are stronger physically than their weapons are (eg. Shepard/Master Chief)
I'm pretty sure this was from codex 5? and its also in the Lexicanum.
@MasterOfArda
Eh it could just be for killing lower level opponents at long range. Like how a lot of sci-fi characters are stronger physically than their weapons are (eg. Shepard/Master Chief)
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- #48
That could be helpful. Destruction of a Russ could be the lower-end with destruction of a Land Raider being the higher-end. Though if a Russ is still 60 tons, it'd likely still be well within tier 6.
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@XING06
I'm pretty sure they don't have any problems with range. I just checked Magnus' page and it said "Kilometers with most powers"
I'm pretty sure they don't have any problems with range. I just checked Magnus' page and it said "Kilometers with most powers"
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"Kilometers (Several) with ranged attacks"
Just because they like to get close doesn't mean they need to.
Just because they like to get close doesn't mean they need to.
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- #52
To be fair, mortal Angron's entire ranged arsenal consists of a gun that he rarely ever uses.
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Yes but again that's with weapons, other than Magnus the others have to use weapons to extend their range past a couple meters. Heck even a space marine has "few kilometers with the Bolters". Again only Magnus has been explicity stated in the lore to have massively powerful long range attacks. He and his Space Marines' entire schtick is to be magic sorcerous artillery.
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- #54
Yeah, 1k Sons have some crazy range with their psychic abilities.
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Aren't demon princes by definition pyskers? And if all they need is a bolter to get the same range as a titan, why do they even use them?
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- #56
Because a bolter can't vaporize entire regiments in a single shot.
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Couldn't they use plasma weapons. Aren't they more powerful then conversion beamers, which ArbitraryNumbers clced to be Country level?
Also, they should be able to hit however they want with FTL speed.
It just seems that if they use titans titans would have to be at least somewhat comprable.
Also, they should be able to hit however they want with FTL speed.
It just seems that if they use titans titans would have to be at least somewhat comprable.
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I actually screwed up on the calc. I multiplied instead of dividing.
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ers/Warhammer:_Subatomic_destruction_of_tanks
I re-calced it and posted it here. New results are 115.5 Gigatons (Large Island level) for the higher end, 96 Gigatons (Island level+) for the lower end.
I re-calced it and posted it here. New results are 115.5 Gigatons (Large Island level) for the higher end, 96 Gigatons (Island level+) for the lower end.
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@Arbitrary Numbers
Nice work on the calc. Could you use a Leman Russ though? Cuz I think that was the actual feat. Dimensions above.
Also, do you know where the subatomic destruction thing comes from is it a codex thing? I know they're really powerful but it works through subatomic destruction or is it so powerful/hot it causes that?
@MasterofArda
No plasma weapons are weaker than conversion beamers and less rare. Only chapter masters and some inquisitors can use them.
Nice work on the calc. Could you use a Leman Russ though? Cuz I think that was the actual feat. Dimensions above.
Also, do you know where the subatomic destruction thing comes from is it a codex thing? I know they're really powerful but it works through subatomic destruction or is it so powerful/hot it causes that?
@MasterofArda
No plasma weapons are weaker than conversion beamers and less rare. Only chapter masters and some inquisitors can use them.
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Oh. Hm, I thought Azathoth said higher-end plasma weapons are preffered
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- #62
@MasterOfArda
Stuff like Plasma Executioners, yeah. But that's because they're far less cumbersome and can kill things at close range, while beamers need to cover distance to build power. They'd still be slightly below beamers.
Stuff like Plasma Executioners, yeah. But that's because they're far less cumbersome and can kill things at close range, while beamers need to cover distance to build power. They'd still be slightly below beamers.
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I did use the Leman Russ. It was for the low end.XING06 said:
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@Arbitrary Numbers
Oh sorry, I didn't see that. Carry on the good work then! Also I don't think we should use a land raider to calc it cuz they're used to transport terminators while providing some security which means they should have at the very least equivalent armor and a terminator can survive a plasma rifle shot badly injured/live for a few seconds.
@Matthew Schroeder
I don't think we should use a baneblade. Its pretty damn tough a plasma gun would barely scratch the paintjob on that thing. A plasma cannon would damage it but we wouldn't be able to calc that because they never give a very good description of it.
Oh sorry, I didn't see that. Carry on the good work then! Also I don't think we should use a land raider to calc it cuz they're used to transport terminators while providing some security which means they should have at the very least equivalent armor and a terminator can survive a plasma rifle shot badly injured/live for a few seconds.
@Matthew Schroeder
I don't think we should use a baneblade. Its pretty damn tough a plasma gun would barely scratch the paintjob on that thing. A plasma cannon would damage it but we wouldn't be able to calc that because they never give a very good description of it.
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@ Azathoth
Quick question are we using subatomic destruction values for the calc because it scales to the energy needed to subatomically destroy a tank using a conversion beamer (just asking because a plasma gun doesn't work like that, it works through heat energy)? Also this is only plasma cannons right? A plasma rifle is considerably lower (Like probably at least 3-30 times based on how much energy something needs to be classed as a cannon compared to a rifle).
Quick question are we using subatomic destruction values for the calc because it scales to the energy needed to subatomically destroy a tank using a conversion beamer (just asking because a plasma gun doesn't work like that, it works through heat energy)? Also this is only plasma cannons right? A plasma rifle is considerably lower (Like probably at least 3-30 times based on how much energy something needs to be classed as a cannon compared to a rifle).
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- #68
@XING
The subatomic destruction values are from the beamer, yes. The energy needed the do this is calced because we are told the beamer needs to gather enough power to do this over distance, meaning it is indeed using energy the induce said subatomic destruction.
This would only scale to high-tier plasma weapons, such as ones mounted on Dreads or tanks, as both of those (specifically Contemptor pattern for the Dreads) can carry beamers and use them for similar purposes. Stuff like basic Plasma guns and pistols will be lower.
The subatomic destruction values are from the beamer, yes. The energy needed the do this is calced because we are told the beamer needs to gather enough power to do this over distance, meaning it is indeed using energy the induce said subatomic destruction.
This would only scale to high-tier plasma weapons, such as ones mounted on Dreads or tanks, as both of those (specifically Contemptor pattern for the Dreads) can carry beamers and use them for similar purposes. Stuff like basic Plasma guns and pistols will be lower.
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- #70
You know, it might be OK to scale Titans to the Imperial Ships' High 6-A stuff. While Titans can't have the same amount of firepower a spacecraft can, the High 6-A calc is for a single torpedo in a single array, not even close to everything one can bring to bear.
My reasoning for this the following quote, which is too long for me to post here, so I'll link it. The important part is basically that a Warlord fires its plasma weapon on accident and it ends up severely damaging a ship and compromising parts of its gellar field. The shockwave of the gun firing alone also flattens a city, so there's that.
Here.
My reasoning for this the following quote, which is too long for me to post here, so I'll link it. The important part is basically that a Warlord fires its plasma weapon on accident and it ends up severely damaging a ship and compromising parts of its gellar field. The shockwave of the gun firing alone also flattens a city, so there's that.
Here.
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I mean, Imperator Titans are meant to be the most powerful weapon humanity has so I don't see why they wouldn't scale.
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- #72
I wouldn't consider them on the same level as some of the largest battleships, which can violently destroy entire planets, but I would definitely consider them up there, along with stuff like the Ordinatus (an Ordinatus' single gun is likely more powerful than a single Imperator gun, but the Imperator's sustained fire likely makes it equal or superior). Referring to the absolute largest ones such as the Ordinatus Armageddon, btw.
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- #73
I never thought I would have this much trouble actively trying to downgrade something in a verse I support.
Anyway, due to the different calc methods, we essentially have three separate series of results from the 'atomically annihilating a tank' thing. I'm thinking about just going through and making the changes, since the majority result is High 6-C, and it can't seem to be decided what is the absolute most accurate. Would this be fine with people?
Anyway, due to the different calc methods, we essentially have three separate series of results from the 'atomically annihilating a tank' thing. I'm thinking about just going through and making the changes, since the majority result is High 6-C, and it can't seem to be decided what is the absolute most accurate. Would this be fine with people?
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Fine by me.
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