Some Def Jam Revisions

[SamanPatou]

For starters, it's nice to have files for these characters, as the games are cool, but I have a few issues with them.
Currently we have files for: Briggs, Lil Kim, Crack, Sketch and Trejo

All characters have Resistance to Time Manipulation because: After fighters activate Blazing, they can see and react to all attacks in time stop until time goes back to normal.
This is a blatant defintiion of Perception Manipulation, just like characters who can see in slowed time, so it shouldn't be a resistance at all. But most importantly, I... don't see it, in any given links. I watched the clips a few times, looked at the in-game clock and checked the wiki, but I don't see this altered perception at all. So, the ability should either be changed or removed.

Lil Kim, Crack, Sketch have Pressure Points related to some of their moves, but these are just, respectively: an axe kick to the face and a punch and a knee in the nuts.
None of these are Pressure Points techniques, so the ability should just be removed.

Lil Kim and Sketch have Pain Manipulation because they can perform an armbar and a choke-out. I don't think I have to explain why these don't qualify as Pain Manipulation, so this too should be removed.


Also, Trejo's file shouldn't link to videos of real people using an uzi as a justification for weapon mastery, and it can be argued that it doesn't require actual "mastery" to use it, but his file provides little context.

 

[Confluctor]

The time manip thing, can't watch the video ATM, should probably be remove if it's wrong. I don't think perception works if ""time was stopped""".

Other stuff are fine to remove tho.

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Holy crap! We have Def Jam profiles!

I agree with the revision. Having played Fight For New York back in the day, and recently watching it and Vendetta, I don't remember anything about them reacting/moving in stopped time or a perceprion effect. The other stuff shouldn't be their either if those are the only justification.

 

[Witchakorn]

All fighters can see all attack in time stop as antvasima already confirm about it from blazing activate untill time go back normal
Peoples even use it in tounarnament esport of this game to parry & couter the attack (It call Limit Resistance to Time Manipulation)
it dont help in the fight that much if the opponet dont attack you at the time you use blazing activated.
It clear that everything around fighter was time stop except the fighter who Blazing activated untill time go back normal
Credit to Antvasima who help me confirm this as he checked everything what right or wrong in all profile.

Every profiles was helped & checked by Antvasima otherwises those profile would be all delete by now.

Pressure point & Pain was still limited (Antvasima should seen that too)

• Baki and Yujiro Hanma with Benda (Grappler Baki) In Pain user wiki

Pressure point user wiki

• Cause unbearable pain to the enemy
• Paralyze the enemy (partially or completely)

Trejo use one hand Mini uzi like using two hand as real life One hand Mini uzi was harder to aim than using 2 hand

but trejo can using it with solid tight aim with only one hand. (Blame game Creator who dont know about real life gun)

Trejo almost kill the hero u know? If he not out of the bullets at all at the subway (Hero plot armor)

using real life to compare one hand & two hand aiming (Antvasima seen it too)

I talked with antvasima a lot while i creates those profiles.

I got delete profiles pages by him so many time to the point i should crying untill i did it.

And that wiki that explain Blazing move dont explain detail what happen in Detail like vs battle profile did.

Vs battle profile alway more detail than just game wiki anyway.

Antvasima Ready to Delete profile pages in no time if it wrong. (it fast)

He even fix and edit page if it still ok to be create for others profile page creators too.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Resistance to time manipulation? Dafuq? That's just a game mechanic from what i recall, and i don't think perception fit with that
Anyway all of what Saman said are making sense so i agree

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

But most importantly.....Ludacris profile pls

 

[Witchakorn]

Resistance to time manipulation? Dafuq? That's just a game mechanic from what i recall, and i don't think perception fit with that
Anyway all of what Saman said are making sense so i agree

Antvasima agree with Limit Resistance to Time Manipulation.
He already check it himself.

 

[Witchakorn]

But most importantly.....Ludacris profile pls

Yes i will create his profile for sure if you interest.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Antvasima agree with Limit Resistance to Time Manipulation.
He already check it himself.

Nah, not enough (especially Ant himself never played or know Def Jam so his judgement are not enough)

 

[SamanPatou]

All fighters can see all attack in time stop as antvasima already confirm about it from blazing activate untill time go back normal
Peoples even use it in tounarnament esport of this game to parry & couter the attack (It call Limit Resistance to Time Manipulation)
it dont help in the fight that much if the opponet dont attack you at the time you use blazing activated.
It clear that everything around fighter was time stop except the fighter who Blazing activated untill time go back normal

You should provide better footage though, because the videos linked don't show what the files claim.

Pressure point & Pain was still limited (Antvasima should seen that too)

• Baki and Yujiro Hanma with Benda (Grappler Baki) In Pain user wiki

Pressure point user wiki

• Cause unbearable pain to the enemy
• Paralyze the enemy (partially or completely)

Benda's an esoteric technique that doesn't exists in real life, and I'd also prone to remove it as pain manip. But even then, whataboutism isn't a feasible argument, Baki being correct or wrong doesn't extend to Def Jam.
And all of these attacks are just common stuff everyone can do in real life, striking sensible spots hurts as hell because they are sensible, it's not an ability.
Same goes for pressure points, they don't fit the definition, which is usually a nerve or some other fictional spot within the human body, and none of those listed in your files count as such.

Trejo use one hand Mini uzi like using two hand as real life One hand Mini uzi was harder to aim than using 2 hand
but trejo can using it with solid tight aim with only one hand. (Blame game Creator who dont know about real life gun)
Trejo almost kill the hero u know? If he not out of the bullets at all at the subway (Hero plot armor)
using real life to compare one hand & two hand aiming (Antvasima seen it too)

I'm not arguing his ability with the uzi, I'm saying that you have to show videos of the game as evidence, not real life footage.

And that wiki that explain Blazing move dont explain detail what happen in Detail like vs battle profile did.
Vs battle profile alway more detail than just game wiki anyway.

We need evidences before explanations, in order to back up what you write.



Also, I'd say @Antvasima should be given the chance to speak for himself

 

[Antvasima]

What do you want me to comment on here?

 

[SamanPatou]

Basically Witchakorn claims you approved some of the things I'm asking to be removed, but I wanted to hear your opinions from you, as I don't like people talking in other's behalf.

Snip

You can use this post as a reference

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the way I remember it, I mostly just helped Witchakorn to correct lots of sentence structure errors. I do not know the verse in question beyond what I have seen in its VSBW profile pages, so you are probably correct in your conclusions.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm honestly entrusting Saman judgement here since this is his area (fighting game)

 

[Witchakorn]

Well, the way I remember it, I mostly just helped Witchakorn to correct lots of sentence structure errors. I do not know the verse in question beyond what I have seen in its VSBW profile pages, so you are probably correct in your conclusions.

Ok i gonna remove Limit Resistance to Time Manipulation as non Canon due to being gameplay side and Pain Pressure point out due to misunderstanding term.

and clear a little bit stuffs for this revision.

 

[Witchakorn]

Basically Witchakorn claims you approved some of the things I'm asking to be removed, but I wanted to hear your opinions from you, as I don't like people talking in other's behalf.


You can use this post as a reference

I will Fix all what you mention and thank for being Interest in this verse and help revision it.
and yes i not lie about antvasima even he maybe not knowing this stuffs but it ok.
He help me a lot too to this day and I proud of it.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. I don't remember helping you other than with sentence structures and the polar bear scaling though.

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm honestly entrusting Saman judgement here since this is his area (fighting game)

It's not even about that, my proposals are rather simple.

• Kicking someone in the nuts or poking their eyes isn't pressure points or pain manipulation
• Show videos or the game instead of real life clips
• Provide actual evidences of esoteric stuff like time or Perception Manipulation

 

[SamanPatou]

thank for being Interest in this verse and help revision it.

No problem, I used to have a ton of fun with F4NY, and it's nice to see it having files.

 

[Witchakorn]

the polar bear scaling though.

That Polar Bear was Big for the Verse Though haha

 

[Witchakorn]

No problem, I used to have a ton of fun with F4NY, and it's nice to see it having files.

All Profile pages of Defjam were Fix for Revision and feel free for everyones to use them for Vs thread Enjoy!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's not even about that, my proposals are rather simple.

• Kicking someone in the nuts or poking their eyes isn't pressure points or pain manipulation
• Show videos or the game instead of real life clips
• Provide actual evidences of esoteric stuff like time or Perception Manipulation

Yeah but my point still technically stand lel

 

[Witchakorn]

Yeah but my point still technically stand lel

I gonna create ludachris profile so you can use him fo your vs thread.
All Def jam pages were already fix for this Revision so you can use all of it.

 

[Antvasima]

It's not even about that, my proposals are rather simple.

• Kicking someone in the nuts or poking their eyes isn't pressure points or pain manipulation
• Show videos or the game instead of real life clips
• Provide actual evidences of esoteric stuff like time or Perception Manipulation

This makes sense to me.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

You should provide better footage though, because the videos linked don't show what the files claim.

Just to have a visual reference for us to have, here is a moment where activating your blaze causes everything to freeze around you while your character moves and shouts. However, this as stated above in the comments is just a game mechanic and the fact that your character freezes when the opponent activates their blaze means there is no resistance.

 

[Witchakorn]

Just to have a visual reference for us to have, here is a moment where activating your blaze causes everything to freeze around you while your character moves and shouts. However, this as stated above in the comments is just a game mechanic and the fact that your character freezes when the opponent activates their blaze means there is no resistance.

Yes it consider non canon and gameplay side. (All Profiles were fix now)

Def Jam likely 9-B Yes!!! (Let fight some Polar Bear)

Deja gonna kick your head off with at least 15 kilojoule

Lil kim gonna stomp your head with her sharp high heel axe kick with at least 15 kilojoule

What a Brutal verse

 

[Mariogoods]

I totally agree with the revision.

Maybe the knowledgeable member could calculate possible feats, I think.

 

[Witchakorn]

Maybe the knowledgeable member could calculate possible feats, I think.

All Profiles were already fix from Revision so you can use those profiles for your vs thread enjoy!
There maybe more feat we can discover more from the verse.

Def Jam Icon Fighters can took damage from Explosion at Small Gas station (Diffrent Universe from OG)

Icon Fighters should at least 9 - A



Can you help me confirm what tier they should be in?

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

All Profiles were already fix from Revision so you can use those profiles for your vs thread enjoy!
There maybe more feat we can discover more from the verse.

The only other feat I can think of are the many metal and steel weapons that bend in one hit but do not KO them when they are thrown in the crowd when the crowd has a weapon or an update to Blazin' mode as Blazin' as long as it is active grants unlimited sprint while it is active in fight for ny(Give me by the end of today to demonstrate. Not at home right now. This is not present in Vendetta due to to no stamina meter nor is it tied to chrisma meter meaning you could run as much as you want).

 

[Witchakorn]

The only other feat I can think of are the many metal and steel weapons that bend in one hit but do not KO them when they are thrown in the crowd when the crowd has a weapon or an update to Blazin' mode as Blazin' as long as it is active grants unlimited sprint while it is active in fight for ny(Give me by the end of today to demonstrate. Not at home right now. This is not present in Vendetta due to to no stamina meter nor is it tied to chrisma meter meaning you could run as much as you want).

Those you mention already add to the profile long ago but the unlimited running speed in blazing mode for stamina still not allow to add yet as gameplay logic.

Dan G he can break a whole baseball bat with one jab (In his Profile)

Still not sure with other iron weapons yet..... (Very Rare gameplay footage)

Weapons will break in one hit while opponent in danger mode still cant be add. (gameplay logic)

you need to test Dan G one jab to other iron weapons for the update feat.

Def Jam Characters had Impact power more than a guns.

Fighters can damage Teck who wear Special Ops Body Armor while fighting (already in profile)

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

Dan G he can break a whole baseball bat with one jab (In his Profile)

Still not sure with other iron weapons yet..... (Very Rare gameplay footage)

Weapons will break in one hit while opponent in danger mode still cant be add. (gameplay logic)

you need to test Dan G one jab to other iron weapons for the update feat.

One whiparound throw into a speaker head first destroy it.

Demolition mode damage done to cars with just 3 environmental attacks done to both cars(And multiple restarts due to TOTALLED screen).
0:22 4 jabs hits to a baseball bat to destroy it. Same or similar feat applied to other weapons in the game. Now how many hits they take before the weapon breaks is another story.

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

Dan G he can break a whole baseball bat with one jab (In his Profile)

I took a look at that one, the dive kick done before hit the bat and did did damage therefore caused it to look like it took one hit. Yes it didn't show visible damage welcome to ps2 era.

 

[Witchakorn]

I took a look at that one, the dive kick done before hit the bat and did did damage therefore caused it to look like it took one hit. Yes it didn't show visible damage welcome to ps2 era.

yeah but One jab in real life should be impossible to break one without people catch it for you too.
able to bend iron weapons after many jabs that insane too.

Polar bear cant damage the car like that right? so we need to find ap more but it still in wall level.

The fact that characters had more impact than a guns is scary enough.

Imagine one jab to real life human. (One hit kill)

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

Polar bear cant damage the car like that right? so we need to find ap more but it still in wall level.

To what I can find with a simple Texmod texture extractor, it is confirmed Manny, despite he's supposed to be a retired Circuit fighter in fight for ny who also got shot by D-Mob in Def Jam Vendetta, is supposed to have fought Crack. Result of the fight unknown.
I know jack on Polar Bears so I'll leave that to someone else.

 

[Witchakorn]

To what I can find with a simple Texmod texture extractor, it is confirmed Manny, despite he's supposed to be a retired Circuit fighter in fight for ny who also got shot by D-Mob in Def Jam Vendetta, is supposed to have fought Crack. Result of the fight unknown.
I know jack on Polar Bears so I'll leave that to someone else.

If the fight still happen that mean Crack still win because he is Crow number 1 fighter in the lore.

If Manny win (Crow will dont like it)

About Polar Bear.....I think Def Jam fighters can kick the car to kill you faster. (Possibly higher AP feat)




Real life human cant run from def jam fighters like that....

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

If the fight still happen that mean Crack still win because he is Crow number 1 fighter in the lore.

If Manny win (Crow will dont like it)

About Polar Bear.....I think Def Jam fighters can kick the car to kill you faster. (Possibly higher AP feat)




Real life human cant run from def jam fighters like that....

I would just argue the damage they do to the 2 cars, includes bending metal with simple environmental attacks>Polar bear. Given with a few jabs they can easily bend iron, steel, and metal weapons in the form of bent in half or pulverized entirely. Would easily make them 9-B albeit they already scale off the sledgehammer calc and the fact they fight people like Teck who wear body armor.

 

[Witchakorn]

I would just argue the damage they do to the 2 cars, includes bending metal with simple environmental attacks>Polar bear. Given with a few jabs they can easily bend iron, steel, and metal weapons in the form of bent in half or pulverized entirely. Would easily make them 9-B albeit they already scale off the sledgehammer calc and the fact they fight people like Teck who wear body armor.

Yeah...if you can strike more impact than a guns that mean AP still dont matter in vs match up anymore because Characters that still can die from a gun will be hurt or die by def jam fighters.

Most Guns still 9-C but still can kill so many characters in 9-B & 9-A etc. even def jam fighters themself still can die by a gun. (Headshot O.G (Takeover) but to the body like d-mob still not die from injury by Mini uzi gun & Manny injury from handgun.

Only way to kill them would be aim to the head as Crow try to kill you too in final fight cutscence.

 

[TheGodAboveMarvel]

Future reference despite i already put it on my wall:
From what I can see as far as an ingame explaination for the regenerative health to explain the health meter recovery lore wise which explains why they tank so much ingame. Whether you can argue low level regeneration as a result is beyond me. Just putting it here for future reference so it is not on my wall post. Also a lore reference for how toughness works lore wise in fight for ny.
https://archive.org/details/Tekken3PrimasOfficialStrategyGuide1998 straight off the official strategy guides with all official heights, weights, names, etc. You'll need to dig down for it.

 

[Witchakorn]

Future reference despite i already put it on my wall:
From what I can see as far as an ingame explaination for the regenerative health to explain the health meter recovery lore wise which explains why they tank so much ingame. Whether you can argue low level regeneration as a result is beyond me. Just putting it here for future reference so it is not on my wall post. Also a lore reference for how toughness works lore wise in fight for ny.
https://archive.org/details/Tekken3PrimasOfficialStrategyGuide1998 straight off the official strategy guides with all official heights, weights, names, etc. You'll need to dig down for it.

In Fact Theire Tough regen was similar to Bloody Roar game as not fully recover in full HP
Stop Bleeding from Crow blade like nothing happen.

Example : Real Werewolf & Vampire can regen to Full HP with Human or Animal Blood. (Still Limit)