(SOLVED)Should a popular gacha life original work be allowed? PT 1

[H3110l12345I20]

^^^;

I know a Vandalism thread has had the verdict of "Gacha Life content is considered fanfic"

But I wanted to get this out of the way, so I could save time for myself and continue doing Gacha Cringe on FCOC, or have even more work on the main site (mixed feelings for the latter).

Before I continue pushing forward with more CRT stuff I could edit in a future CRT. Let's address this copy-pasted mess first:

We're allowed to have fan verses and profiles if they have legal permission from their creator. (Edit: Bambu even says they can be allowed if they had provable permission) What happens to original user-generated verses based off of this if the original user generated thing has a canon, and the the original user generated thing explicitly allows you to use said assets that are in it's canon? This is likely a different case, but why are Roblox original verses allowed on-site?

Lunime is a decent, but not terrible app developer, but his dress up apps are usually mostly the same. Much of his apps state you're allowed to use their assets despite some of them having a canon [Gacha Life has a "Life Mode"]. And as you can edit/put your developed apps' descriptions, it's likely Luni (or his staff if any) likely are the ones who put the descriptions there.

Gacha Life 2 about section: "Choose from thousands of dresses, shirts, hairstyles, weapons, and much more! After designing your characters, enter the Studio and create your own scenes and stories!"

Gacha Life 1 about section: "Choose from hundreds of dresses, shirts, hairstyles, weapons, and much more! After designing your characters, enter the Studio and create any scene you can imagine! Choose from over a hundred backgrounds to create the perfect story!"

Gacha Studio (Anime Dress Up) about section: "Create your own anime styled characters and dress them up in your favorite fashion outfits! Boys and girls can choose from hundreds of dresses, shirts, hairstyles, hats, and much more! After designing your characters, enter the Studio and create any scene you can imagine!"

Edit 1: Regarding Red v. Blue's case from what I've gathered here and in previous threads, the reason why staff allow it is because it's popular enough to be an officially published work and it's own entity (which is ironic with Bambu's logic here). And it's made enough impact to be on wikipedia. Likely not the entire story.

There are gacha life animated series that also are published works and are their own thing in the form of teams. (Unbounded, The Music Freaks) What's the difference? I predict this will circle back to official permission (which Bambu underestimated without a counterargument to why it should be underestimated).

In short, he's stated here that the gacha life can be allowed if they had provable permission. And he downplayed a potential permission and used a case mostly irrelevant to my argument. If staff says this permission doesn't count bc of X actual valid permission, that is all I want to hear.

Thank you @JohnConquest1 for defining such vague nonsense. His post at the end of this thread solve everything here.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Nope. We already talked about this, Gacha Life is a game of its own and people create their own fictions within it. It's no more valid for profiles than my Be My Rimworld Pawns threads, provided the latter suddenly had, say, a few hundred thousand views on YouTube. Similar situations exist in a different medium for tabletops, plenty of extremely well documented homebrew games around that almost certainly meet our notoriety requirements but are nevertheless personal stories told through the medium of a separate entity.

It's fan content, even if it is used to create an original story.

Roblox on this wiki is considered less a "game to make stories in" and more an actual game engine, akin to Unity or Source.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Nope. We already talked about this, Gacha Life is a game of its own and people create their own fictions within it. It's no more valid for profiles than my Be My Rimworld Pawns threads, provided the latter suddenly had, say, a few hundred thousand views on YouTube. Similar situations exist in a different medium for tabletops, plenty of extremely well documented homebrew games around that almost certainly meet our notoriety requirements but are nevertheless personal stories told through the medium of a separate entity.

It's fan content, even if it is used to create an original story.

Roblox on this wiki is considered less a "game to make stories in" and more an actual game engine, akin to Unity or Source.

Frankly, I was confused when I saw these statements on Luni's apps. Like, would they count as legal permission? That's what I'm confused about since I've seen Luni condone Gachatubers for creating such content based off of his works. Does stuff like Rimworld legally permit story making via their assets?

And your statement of Roblox being a game to create stories in doesn't make any sense apply to the Gacha Life francise. I know your main argument is that it uses assets from another work which I referred to in my prev. paragraph.

And what happens if a Wattpad story meets the requirements of notability on-site? What separates Wattpad and a medium used to create games and stories from fan sources (they can be fan sources)?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'll give this a month or 2 for any staff to respond to this.

I don't think I made myself clear. The statements can be interpreted as legal permission from the original creator; quite the false equivalence of other stuff like Rimworld since I haven't seen Rimworld or Minecraft give direct legal permission from the original creator.

Until there's direct clarification on this, I disagree.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think I made myself clear. The statements can be interpreted as legal permission from the original creator; quite the false equivalence of other stuff like Rimworld since I haven't seen Rimworld or Minecraft give direct legal permission from the original creator.

Creative interpretation of unrelated statements is a pathway to legitimizing many verses some consider to be... unallowable by the rules.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Creative interpretation of unrelated statements is a pathway to legitimizing many verses some consider to be... unallowable by the rules.

And explain how these statements I gave in the OP would be unrelated to legal permission if they (unlike fan made rimworld and minnecraft verses) are from the creator explicitly allowed to use content from an original story.

Name a couple of verses that would be allowed when they shouldn't by my logic and related official statements. Then I don't have to have even move time moving profiles that involve the devil impreganting teens.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I just don't understand why you're taking "make your own stories" as "this is legally intellectual property we give up to you, it's yours!", that's just not how it works. You're asking me to not include Rimworld but it remains an incredibly apt comparison and I didn't mention Minecraft; Rimworld sells itself as a "story generator". It's still it's own game, and none of these have explicit permission from the creators a la Red vs Blue.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Why dose it matter if you tell your story added by the rules framework of a game if your not taking any story elements from that game? This standard is weird.

It made more sense when OC was just defined as somthing made by someone who uses the sight.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This would not be OC, this would be FC- that is, someone's content generated via another IP they themselves do not own. The "fan" part of that doesn't really work, but again, it's quite literally 1:1 to Rimworld.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Why dose it matter if you tell your story added by the rules framework of a game if your not taking any story elements from that game? This standard is weird.

It made more sense when OC was just defined as somthing made by someone who uses the sight.

Well, if you are using an intellectual property of another person's work, it would be akin to using Steve from Minecraft in a fan work. Tell me what is wrong with that.

This would not be OC, this would be FC- that is, someone's content generated via another IP they themselves do not own. The "fan" part of that doesn't really work, but again, it's quite literally 1:1 to Rimworld.

Would it make more sense to apply this logic to works that imply permission, or directly state permission? Luni is more direct in this case while the steam description isn't too direct about it.

Would it make sense to start adding undertale and fnaf AUs the original creators weren't direct on as official permission even when you argue they imply to permit it? Right?

If I'm missing something, tell me or link me something you know.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well, if you are using an intellectual property of another person's work, it would be akin to using Steve from Minecraft in a fan work. Tell me what is wrong with that.

This isn't about right or wrong, if you have permission or not dosen't matter it's still against the rule, so this line of thought is irrelevant, besides things like gacha studios usually have a license to share what you make. This criteria for being disregarded makes no sense at all.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well, if you are using an intellectual property of another person's work, it would be akin to using Steve from Minecraft in a fan work. Tell me what is wrong with that.

Would it make more sense to apply this logic to works that imply permission, or directly state permission? Luni is more direct in this case while the steam description isn't too direct about it.

Would it make sense to start adding undertale and fnaf AUs the original creators weren't direct on as official permission even when you argue they imply to permit it? Right?

If I'm missing something, tell me or link me something you know.

I genuinely don't understand how you're making this connection?

The rules stand against Undertale/FNAF fanfiction, not in favor. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[AThe1412]

Bro is seriously going through all of this trouble to get freaking Gacha Life on the wiki.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I genuinely don't understand how you're making this connection?

The rules stand against Undertale/FNAF fanfiction, not in favor. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Vvv

Luni is more direct in this case while the steam description isn't too direct about it.

Luni directly says you can use his assets while Rimworld doesn't. What part of my point is confusing?
_____

Bro is seriously going through all of this trouble to get freaking Gacha Life on the wiki.

Yeah, there are 2 sides in my mind here. One that doesn't want more work and just wants to keep their haha funny gacha memes on FCOC, and the other wanting notable gacha life works to be on site.

Mind you, I got rather confused when I 1st saw these on Luni's apps, I want clarification if these statements count before haters and trolls come to it 1st.

Don't forget that even the most terrible of fictions and communities can have at least some good writing. Just watch one episode of Unbounded or The music freaks from the community and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Gacha Life is its own IP. You are overestimating the legitimacy of statements on its app store page- nothing about creating your own stories is "explicit permission", certainly not on the level of the example case we tend to compare these to (the aforementioned Red vs Blue). I don't even agree it makes them "better" than a random Rimworld playthrough on YouTube that would otherwise meet our notoriety requirements. I do not intend to entertain "but what about them saying make your own stories" as an argument in favor of keeping it. I don't know why you feel so passionately about porting them from FC/OC while insisting this isn't your goal, but they are against our rules.

Cheers man. I'm not replying again.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Gacha Life is its own IP. You are overestimating the legitimacy of statements on its app store page- nothing about creating your own stories is "explicit permission", certainly not on the level of the example case we tend to compare these to (the aforementioned Red vs Blue). I don't even agree it makes them "better" than a random Rimworld playthrough on YouTube that would otherwise meet our notoriety requirements. I do not intend to entertain "but what about them saying make your own stories" as an argument in favor of keeping it. I don't know why you feel so passionately about porting them from FC/OC while insisting this isn't your goal, but they are against our rules.

Cheers man. I'm not replying again.

You think I'm overestimating statements?Luni's the one that published the pages. I've looked it up and you can publish your own app store apps and descriptions. So it has to be Luni. Got proof otherwise?

Until I see the red v blue case, I'll assume this reasoning is unjustified, vague downplay. Not that it's bad, but it has to have clear reasoning.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Gacha Life is its own IP. You are overestimating the legitimacy of statements on its app store page- nothing about creating your own stories is "explicit permission", certainly not on the level of the example case we tend to compare these to (the aforementioned Red vs Blue). I don't even agree it makes them "better" than a random Rimworld playthrough on YouTube that would otherwise meet our notoriety requirements. I do not intend to entertain "but what about them saying make your own stories" as an argument in favor of keeping it. I don't know why you feel so passionately about porting them from FC/OC while insisting this isn't your goal, but they are against our rules.

Cheers man. I'm not replying again.

Thank you for the explanation it's very appreciated!

 

[AThe1412]

Just curious but is there any Gacha Life verse that has its own copyright? There are thousands of Roblox games with their own copyrights and 99% of assets are made by Roblox users.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Just curious but is there any Gacha Life verse that has its own copyright? There are thousands of Roblox games with their own copyrights and 99% of assets are made by Roblox users.

Yes. And you can make descriptions of your apps on the play store. That would mean Luni or his team made the descriptions, so the descriptions should be official.

I'll add that to the OP as I summon more staff here.

 

[AThe1412]

Yes.

Example?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Example?

Shouldn't reasoning by example be enough? Or do I have to do some digging?

Common sense says Luni owns Gacha Life's francise since he made it.

 

[AThe1412]

Shouldn't reasoning by example be enough? Or do I have to do some digging?

Common sense says Luni owns Gacha Life's francise since he made it.

Well duh. I'm not asking for proof that the creator of Gacha Life owns it. I'm asking for proof that Gacha Life content creators own their stories

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Well duh. I'm not asking for proof that the creator of Gacha Life owns it. I'm asking for proof that Gacha Life content creators own their stories

Luni legally permits them, so yes.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm unsure what the current topic is aside from fan or parody works. I know Red Vs Blue is allowed because it is a published work by Roosterteeth (RIP). And Microsoft has basically okayed the use of their graphics engines to make the videos and what not; though iirc, they switched to Unreal Engine even before Halo Studios decided to. And being a Halo parody was mostly something seen in the earlier videos, as it basically evolved and revealed more details of its own universe that is more original and completely distinct from the Halo Universe. But it's a published work by a well known publisher combined with the fact that it's not breaking any trademark, copyright, or patent laws.

I am unsure about the full details about Gacha Life, perhaps it is popular, but the question is that are any well known publishers involved in the making of it? And furthermore, how story or plot oriented is the series?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'm unsure what the current topic is aside from fan or parody works. I know Red Vs Blue is allowed because it is a published work by Roosterteeth (RIP). And Microsoft has basically okayed the use of their graphics engines to make the videos and what not; though iirc, they switched to Unreal Engine even before Halo Studios decided to. And being a Halo parody was mostly something seen in the earlier videos, as it basically evolved and revealed more details of its own universe that is more original and completely distinct from the Halo Universe. But it's a published work by a well known publisher combined with the fact that it's not breaking any trademark, copyright, or patent laws.

I am unsure about the full details about Gacha Life, perhaps it is popular, but the question is that are any well known publishers involved in the making of it? And furthermore, how story or plot oriented is the series?

The main selling point is that the franchise is a kids game used for stories and customization.

Due to the low quality of the games, most of the assets are copy pasted for each with slight differences for each installment. I already linked gacha life's life mode, which only involves the player chatting with other characters as it's lackluster plot. Gacha Club does have a more plot focused canon, but it is also not executed well.

I have the scans if you're unconvinced for some of these claims.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Bump

 

[JohnConquest1]

I'm going to leave a comment here, because I think it'll be absolutely significant and worth calling back to every time someone tries to push Red vs Blue's vaguely located needle designating whats the border between FC/OC, VS Battle Wiki, and even Joke Battles Wiki.

I say call back because I'm frankly tired of people trying to have their favorite piece of media try to steal Red vs. Blue's moldy lunch, thinking that it's actually worth going through the effort to steal. I've pushed it at several points in the past that the key difference between RVB and other Machinima (ie Minecraft Fan videos) is their clearly going beyond the stipulations provided to End Users within Microsoft's Game Usage Rules regarding the Halo IP. This is a legally binding page that carries a lot more weight than [x] saying on some forum/website something along the lines of "You can do whatever lol".

Rooster Teeth were in a special business relationship where the company that owned the Halo IP in question worked with them in making Red vs Blue it's own original project. That's the key point, they weren't beholden the by same strict rights allocated to end users, or even more casual licensors of the IP. Microsoft ignored their own policies in working with the Red vs. Blue team to develop the series as it's own original, collaborative work.


And this is where I'm obligated to make it very, very, very clear to you, yes you the would be moldy lunch stealer reading this that it is in no ones, be it VSB, FC/OC, or JBW's best interest to be more concise insofar as what goes where. and trying to steal RVBs proverbial lunch is an annoyingly vain effort.


Just because someone is selling product or they got publisher involved with project doesn't legitimize it as legally distinct product or worthy of being being on VSB, if those were strictly the sole rigid qualifiers then Fallout Equestria would be allowed on VS Battle Wiki, which I believe everyone reading this would reasonably define as "inappropriate" to say the absolute least. When you make broad stroke statements or allowances they can act as misguided enablers in the long term if not properly delineated.

Don't steal RVBs lunch pls. have fun developing your verse regardless of which wiki it belongs on.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I'm going to leave a comment here, because I think it'll be absolutely significant and worth calling back to every time someone tries to push Red vs Blue's vaguely located needle designating whats the border between FC/OC, VS Battle Wiki, and even Joke Battles Wiki.

I say call back because I'm frankly tired of people trying to have their favorite piece of media try to steal Red vs. Blue's moldy lunch, thinking that it's actually worth going through the effort to steal. I've pushed it at several points in the past that the key difference between RVB and other Machinima (ie Minecraft Fan videos) is their clearly going beyond the stipulations provided to End Users within Microsoft's Game Usage Rules regarding the Halo IP. This is a legally binding page that carries a lot more weight than [x] saying on some forum/website something along the lines of "You can do whatever lol".

Rooster Teeth were in a special business relationship where the company that owned the Halo IP in question worked with them in making Red vs Blue it's own original project. Thats the key point, they weren't beholden the by same strict rights allocated to end users, or even more casual licensors of the IP. Microsoft ignored their own policies in working with the Red vs. Blue team to develop the series as it's own original, collaborative work.


And this is where I'm obligated to make it very, very,very clear to you, yes you the would be moldy lunch stealer reading this that it is in no ones, be it VSB, FC/OC, or JBW's to be more concise insofar as what goes where. and trying to steal RVBs lunch is an annoyingly vain effort.


Just because someone is selling product or got publisher involved doesn't legitimize it as legally distinct product or worthy of being being on VSB, if that were strictly the sole rigid qualifier then Fallout Equestria would be allowed on VS Battle Wiki, which I believe everyone reading this would reasonably define as "inappopriate" to say the absolute least. When you make broad stroke statements or allowances they can act as misguided enablers in the long term if not properly delineated.

Don't steal RVBs lunch pls. have fun developing your verse regardless of which wiki it belongs on.

The use ofwords like worthy is exactly why people care about this.f words like worthy is exactly why people care about. Noone would care if it wasn't implied the work was lesser for not be allowed.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'm going to leave a comment here, because I think it'll be absolutely significant and worth calling back to every time someone tries to push Red vs Blue's vaguely located needle designating whats the border between FC/OC, VS Battle Wiki, and even Joke Battles Wiki.

I say call back because I'm frankly tired of people trying to have their favorite piece of media try to steal Red vs. Blue's moldy lunch, thinking that it's actually worth going through the effort to steal. I've pushed it at several points in the past that the key difference between RVB and other Machinima (ie Minecraft Fan videos) is their clearly going beyond the stipulations provided to End Users within Microsoft's Game Usage Rules regarding the Halo IP. This is a legally binding page that carries a lot more weight than [x] saying on some forum/website something along the lines of "You can do whatever lol".

Rooster Teeth were in a special business relationship where the company that owned the Halo IP in question worked with them in making Red vs Blue it's own original project. Thats the key point, they weren't beholden the by same strict rights allocated to end users, or even more casual licensors of the IP. Microsoft ignored their own policies in working with the Red vs. Blue team to develop the series as it's own original, collaborative work.


And this is where I'm obligated to make it very, very,very clear to you, yes you the would be moldy lunch stealer reading this that it is in no ones, be it VSB, FC/OC, or JBW's to be more concise insofar as what goes where. and trying to steal RVBs lunch is an annoyingly vain effort.


Just because someone is selling product or got publisher involved doesn't legitimize it as legally distinct product or worthy of being being on VSB, if that were strictly the sole rigid qualifier then Fallout Equestria would be allowed on VS Battle Wiki, which I believe everyone reading this would reasonably define as "inappopriate" to say the absolute least. When you make broad stroke statements or allowances they can act as misguided enablers in the long term if not properly delineated.

Don't steal RVBs lunch pls. have fun developing your verse regardless of which wiki it belongs on.

...? Ok. Thank you for precisely defining this stuff more precisely than Bambu did.

I was legit planning to abandon this wanky thread explaining over the fact that this claim is vague and users don't own Luni's stuff on an explanation OP thread. But yea, I wish you were here when this thread was made.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'm going to leave a comment here, because I think it'll be absolutely significant and worth calling back to every time someone tries to push Red vs Blue's vaguely located needle designating whats the border between FC/OC, VS Battle Wiki, and even Joke Battles Wiki.

I say call back because I'm frankly tired of people trying to have their favorite piece of media try to steal Red vs. Blue's moldy lunch, thinking that it's actually worth going through the effort to steal. I've pushed it at several points in the past that the key difference between RVB and other Machinima (ie Minecraft Fan videos) is their clearly going beyond the stipulations provided to End Users within Microsoft's Game Usage Rules regarding the Halo IP. This is a legally binding page that carries a lot more weight than [x] saying on some forum/website something along the lines of "You can do whatever lol".

Rooster Teeth were in a special business relationship where the company that owned the Halo IP in question worked with them in making Red vs Blue it's own original project. That's the key point, they weren't beholden the by same strict rights allocated to end users, or even more casual licensors of the IP. Microsoft ignored their own policies in working with the Red vs. Blue team to develop the series as it's own original, collaborative work.


And this is where I'm obligated to make it very, very,very clear to you, yes you the would be moldy lunch stealer reading this that it is in no ones, be it VSB, FC/OC, or JBW's best interest to be more concise insofar as what goes where. and trying to steal RVBs proverbial lunch is an annoyingly vain effort.


Just because someone is selling product or they got publisher involved with project doesn't legitimize it as legally distinct product or worthy of being being on VSB, if those were strictly the sole rigid qualifiers then Fallout Equestria would be allowed on VS Battle Wiki, which I believe everyone reading this would reasonably define as "inappropriate" to say the absolute least. When you make broad stroke statements or allowances they can act as misguided enablers in the long term if not properly delineated.

Don't steal RVBs lunch pls. have fun developing your verse regardless of which wiki it belongs on.

PS, sorry for exploiting Bambu's statements, I thought it would be another Slendy the arrival returns to VSBW thread