SMG4 Downgrades

[Soupywolf5]

Currently all SMG4 characters are "possibly 2-C," scaling to Master Hand, who has this on his profile:

"Created SSEITAB meaning he created these corridors are possibly as big as dimensions though it is not clear if they are separate universes/dimensions. Master Hand is the ruler of these dimensions and changed the rules of many dimensions several times, Crazy Hand who has the same powers as Master Hand he changed the rules of his dimension several times, and can keep making more dimensions at his will with ease"

Not only are these dimensions not even remotely implied in any way to be universal in size, but the profiles also assume he created all of them at once rather than one at a time. The claim that they're "possibly as big as dimensions" is completely unsupported (The linked video says nothing to suggest that) and Master Hand/Crazy Hand changing their rules also wouldn't even be a feat of AP, it'd just be hax (Also what he does wouldn't even be any sort of hax beyond creation) being able to create more dimensions also doesn't mean anything if those dimensions aren't universal in size.

Also just in case anyone brings them up, I'm also going to go over any other Tier 2 arguments and why they're flawed

• Mario destroying the space-time continuum in SM64: Ssenmodnar 9 - Time Travel Edition: Mario causes the destruction of the universe via repeated time travel aka a chain reaction that wouldn't actually scale to any of the characters
• Mario wipes out his original universe in Super Mario 64 Bloopers: Time Travel Tells: Mario destroys his universe via killing the person who would have created SM64 before he could, leading to the universe having never existed, meaning another chain reaction that wouldn't scale to anyone's stats
• The Mario Head threatening to destroy the world in Ssenmodnar 8: Not only do we have no reason to assume "world" means universe in this case, but the Mario Head doesn't even show anything to suggest it would be capable of doing so. Inside of its head has a space background, but we have no reason to assume this is an entire universe or that it would scale to the Mario Head's stats
• Grand Dad turning the universe into a bootleg version of itself in SM64: THE BOOTLEG DIMENSION: At best this would be universal range hax for Grand Dad. As he even says himself, he's not actually that strong, all he can do is turn things into bootleg versions of themselves (Also it doesn't even affect the whole universe, we see Mario and some Toads who weren't affected by Grand Dad's hax so it's probably only kilometers of range at best)
• Mario scaling to the Narrator, who can control the universe in Super Mario 64 Bloopers: The Mario Parable: The Narrator does show control over reality, but never full control over the entire universe, and Mario doesn't even scale to them in any way (He raps against them, but that doesn't mean he should physically scale)
• Scaling to ??? who could hack the universe in Super Mario 64 Bloopers: Account Loss: Hacking the universe via technology doesn't mean any of the characters would have universal physical capabilities. ??? never shows any actual physical feats of any sort, and his control when he has SMG4's account only really affects the area around Peach's castle anyway
• Scaling to SMG0, who destroyed multiple universes: Saying SMG0 can destroy universes is ignoring important context, SMG0 didn't outright destroy any universes via raw power, but rather via killing their avatars, which are the game universe's main characters necessary for that universe's existence (SMG0's original universe was destroyed because Fred, the universe's avatar, was killed, SMG0 didn't destroy it in a way that would scale to his AP, and the same thing with SMG1 & SMG2's universe, its avatar: Spudnik, was killed which in turn caused the destruction of the universe in a chain reaction)
• Destroying the God Box, which contains "unlimited power:" Pretty clear hyperbole. Plus, the Box Club, the group that claims the God Box to have unlimited power isn't a reliable source to make any claims about it. SMG4 claims opening the God Box could lead to the destruction of the universe, but this circles back around to the previous point about SMG0. The God Box wasn't going to destroy the universe via sheer AP, but through a chain reaction

TL; DR: nuke Tier 2

Planet level stuff's fine though.

Bonus: SMG4's Real World​

So currently the real-world versions of the characters, such as Luke, are rated as Unknown, with Luke also having an array of higher-dimensional hax, the reason for this is seeing the SMG4 universe/other universes as fiction. However, the series itself pretty firmly establishes that the SMG4 cast like Mario are normal video game characters, not that Luke is a transcendent, Tier 1 entity. The game universes are romhacks, the Meme Guardian's Guardian Pods are normal USB sticks, the God Box is a box of broken computer parts, etc. In fact, one of the previous Tier 2 arguments; the Mario Parable, proves this even further, as it outright shows that Mario is just a normal rom hack of Super Mario 64.

With all this Luke would only be a normal, 10-B human. (And the characters themselves would be 10-C from an in-universe standpoint. But I think keeping them at Planet is fine since it'd be analyzing them from the perspective of someone in their simulation just like the VS wiki's IMSCARED and AVA profiles) This would also nuke all of his higher-dimensional hax, (Other than maybe Toon force, but it wouldn't be higher-dimensional. SS also doesn't have a source for it so I have no idea if that's legit or not) as his "reality warping" and "creation" would just be like me or you altering a file on a computer, it's not any kind of hax it's just using technology

 

[CurrySenpai]

I disagree somewhat but I’ll have a more in depth explanation later.

 

[OculoOmnibus]

Agree with the post