Small bleach crt

[ItsMeat]

So, while re-reading the soul physiology page, I noticed they are granted "possible invulnerability". I think this should either be changed to straight up "Invulnerability"(without any "possible" rating) or we should also add "intangibility(imaterial)". Here are other scans than those present on the page and they straight up say that normal humans can't even touch spiritual entities, let alone see and hear them and this is because the konpaku isn't material.

 

[ItsMeat]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

Why don't they just have basic incorporeality. Isn't that what we usually give spirits and similar?

 

[ItsMeat]

Why don't they just have basic incorporeality. Isn't that what we usually give spirits and similar?

I mean, bleach is a special case, where souls do things like bleeding and konpaku is their "body", it being often reffered to as body as well, so incorporeality feels a bit wrong...

 

[Qawsedf234]

Here are other scans than those present on the page and they straight up say that normal humans can't even touch spiritual entities, let alone see and hear them and this is because the konpaku isn't material.

So the main issue here is that the Viz scan is actually one of the few times that its a legitimate mistranslation.

Rukia actually states that humans can touch both Hollows and Soul Reapers because they're dense with spiritual energy, unlike spirits. But they're still not able to sense them.

To be honest, the invulnerability seems pretty suspect since I think its mostly down to intangibility and endurance more so than being unable to be harmed.

 

[Deceived3596]

Reishi-dense entities like Shinigami and Hollows aren't intangible. That is stated by Rukia to be true, and demonstrated by spiritually deficient people like Yuzu. Furthermore, we have confirmation in CFYOW that the only weapon indicated capable of damaging a group of Shinigami is a Zanpakuto -- a weapon that possesses the ability to directly cut the soul. And an abundance of other affirmations confirming this to be the case as well.

It's a plan of mine to revise the physiology blogs extensively - I've just been preoccupied by other projects, and I still need to finish my readings of the Canon material for Bleach to acquire new feats, references, and scans.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Honestly, I don’t think the fact that only a Zanpakutō can directly harm a Shinigami necessarily implies that they’re completely invulnerable to everything else. As Qawsed mentioned, this is quite strange — it seems more accurate to interpret it as a matter of spiritual compatibility rather than "invulnerability."

In other words, it’s not that they’re truly immune to all forms of weapons besides the Zanpakutō — but rather that they can only be affected by something operating on the same spiritual frequency or density.

And as we’ve seen in various parts of the series, these beings can, under certain conditions, be harmed by other sources. So perhaps the more precise way to put it is that they’re unaffected by attacks that lack the necessary spiritual nature — not that they’re outright invulnerable in an absolute sense.

 

[ItsMeat]

Huh?

Honestly, I don’t think the fact that only a Zanpakutō can directly harm a Shinigami necessarily implies that they’re completely invulnerable to everything else. As Qawsed mentioned, this is quite strange — it seems more accurate to interpret it as a matter of spiritual compatibility rather than "invulnerability."

In other words, it’s not that they’re truly immune to all forms of weapons besides the Zanpakutō — but rather that they can only be affected by something operating on the same spiritual frequency or density.

And as we’ve seen in various parts of the series, these beings can, under certain conditions, be harmed by other sources. So perhaps the more precise way to put it is that they’re unaffected by attacks that lack the necessary spiritual nature — not that they’re outright invulnerable in an absolute sense.

Basically, that you need reiryoku in orther to interract with them

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Huh?

Basically, that you need reiryoku in orther to interract with them

Yes, I know. But that only has to do with intangibility — it doesn't mean they're invulnerable.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yes, I know. But that only has to do with intangibility — it doesn't mean they're invulnerable.

Exactly. I think removing the power would overall be more accurate.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

CFYOW also add this.

「で、でも、この人達、虚(ホロウ)じゃなくて人間ですよね⁉」「霊体のあたし達を攻撃できる奴らが普通の人間のわけないでしょ……？」そこで志乃は異変に気付く。

“B-but, these people… they’re humans, not Hollows, right!?”“There’s no way people who are able to attack our spiritual bodies are normal humans… right?”It was there that Shino noticed the anomaly.

Shinigami wondering why "humans" are able to attack their spiritual bodies, imply normal humans can't attack them in their spiritual bodies.

Though, take it as you wish, but it kind of matches this.

 

[Deceived3596]

Shinigami and Hollows are explicitly not intangible - they don't phase through attacks, specifically because of their high Reishi density. It wouldn't make sense to categorize the ability as Intangibility when Intangibility necessitates the character(s) in question to be able to "pass through things physically." Invulnerability necessitates that the character(s) in question is simply immune to conventional harm. Bleach characters are technically "immune" to conventional, physical harm as they're spiritual entities. It requires an additional spiritual component to harm them. I don't see how this isn't clicking.

Intangibility = phases through stuff

Invulnerability = immune to conventional damage

Shinigami and Hollows aren't able to phase through stuff = not Intangibility - Shinigami and Hollows are unaffected by conventional damage that isn't supplemented with spirituality = Invulnerable to damage that isn't supplemented with spirituality.

The actual justification itself makes clear that this only extends to attacks that aren't spiritually strengthened. So there is next to no ambiguity on what is being stated by the justification. I'm genuinely confused here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah can yall take a second to read the words on the pages Deceived sent… this just isn’t hard to grasp…

 

[ItsMeat]

Shinigami and Hollows are explicitly not intangible - they don't phase through attacks, specifically because of their high Reishi density. It wouldn't make sense to categorize the ability as Intangibility when Intangibility necessitates the character(s) in question to be able to "pass through things physically." Invulnerability necessitates that the character(s) in question is simply immune to conventional harm. Bleach characters are technically "immune" to conventional, physical harm as they're spiritual entities. It requires an additional spiritual component to harm them. I don't see how this isn't clicking.

Intangibility = phases through stuff

Invulnerability = immune to conventional damage

Shinigami and Hollows aren't able to phase through stuff = not Intangibility - Shinigami and Hollows are unaffected by conventional damage that isn't supplemented with spirituality = Invulnerable to damage that isn't supplemented with spirituality.

The actual justification itself makes clear that this only extends to attacks that aren't spiritually strengthened. So there is next to no ambiguity on what is being stated by the justification. I'm genuinely confused here.

So, basically remove the "possible" rating for invulnerability? That was one of the ideas as well

 

[Deceived3596]

Just leave it alone. I plan on adding more information to it that would warrant a more substantive reason to remove the possibility rating than what is currently on the page.

 

[ItsMeat]

Just leave it alone. I plan on adding more information to it that would warrant a more substantive reason to remove the possibility rating than what is currently on the page.

Sure. Btw, do you think the cycle of rebirth counts as law manipulation?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

bruh

 

[ItsMeat]

I am genuinely curious. Gimme your opinion too

 

[Deceived3596]

Sure. Btw, do you think the cycle of rebirth counts as law manipulation?

It could be. I would need to do more research on it before I can say anything more.

 

[ItsMeat]

It could be. I would need to do more research on it before I can say anything more.

That's exactly the same for me, it just crossed my mind since I randomly remembered I am creating that reio pieces physiology when I saw you here

Edit: I added a few more things to it.

 

[Johner2133451]

Agree

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

@Deceived3596, but it's precisely because of everything you said that it doesn't make sense to label this as "invulnerability."

You yourself explained that Shinigami and Hollows are not intangible by definition due to their high density of Reishi — and because of that, they don’t phase through physical attacks. At the same time, you said they can only be harmed by things that reach the spiritual level.

"Bleach characters are technically 'immune' to conventional physical damage because they are spiritual entities. A spiritual component is required to harm them."

Look, it's not that they're naturally immune, but rather that only certain types of attacks (spiritual ones) can actually affect them. And from what little I understand about invulnerability, this doesn't really qualify in the full sense of the word — it seems more like a physiological condition that depends on the nature of the attack, rather than true immunity on the character’s part. That’s a different thing.

If you look closely, it's pretty strange to give physical damage invulnerability to a character that doesn't even qualify as a physical entity — like in the case of spirits, ghosts, and the like.

So, what we’re really seeing here is:

• They can be hurt, but only by spiritual means.
• That already rules out invulnerability (even conditional).
• And as you yourself said: they are not fully intangible, since they don’t phase through phisical attacks. In other words, this functions more as a limitation of their spiritual physiology, not exactly as evidence of any supposed "invulnerability".

 

[Deceived3596]

It shouldn't be this difficult to grasp what is being said here. It's limited Invulnerability to attacks that don't meaningfully interact on a spiritual level. This is what I stated multiple times in this thread, and that is the stipulation explained in the blog. Just because it doesn't fully encapsulate the idea of Invulnerability doesn't mean it's not functionally Invulnerability.

Invulnerability is the ability to remain unharmed by conventional damage -- physical strikes and the like. If we have entities who are strongly indicated to be unharmed by attacks without this secondary component of spirituality, despite the fact the entities themselves are physically-present - they have physicality to them without being constructed from physical matter, it fulfills that requisite clause of remaining unharmed by conventional damage that would normally harm someone, but is unable to because of some distinction. The distinction is a difference in substance - one is physical and abides by physical constraints - the other is spiritual and abides by spiritual constraints.

If you're still not convinced by this, what would you personally categorize the attribute as?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

truthfully change it to limited invuln and clarify its invuln to non-astral/physical attacks…

 

[Godernet]

I agree with the guy above with the based pfp

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No Hollow compares to Arima Kishou

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

What I think is that when a character is immune to certain attacks because they don’t share the same existential compatibility as the attacker (physical attack vs. spiritual target), then the target isn’t invulnerable — they’re conditionally immune based on an ontological distinction. I don’t see this as invulnerability.

If they’re unable to phase through physical attacks due to their high Reishi density, but are still spiritual entities, then I would naturally categorize this as a limitation of their spiritual physiology — and because of that, I would label it either as limited intangibility or selective intangibility.

I find it redundant to label this kind of case as “invulnerability,” even as “limited,” because if we accept this type of behavior as qualifying for that label, then any ghost in any work of fiction that also can’t be harmed by physical means would have to be classified the same way — which would dilute the category entirely and apply the same label to very different phenomena.

"despite the fact the entities themselves are physically-present - they have physicality to them without being constructed from physical matter"

I’m not sure I fully understand this part. Aren’t they (Shinigami and Hollows) spiritual beings? How can they possess physicality if they’re not made of physical matter?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

lol bruh

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Physical Matter =/= physicality. Physicality by definition is the act of having a body outside the mind. So by nature of Hollow’s having spiritual bodies composed of spiritual matter that provides them a body outside of the mind, they possess physicality.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump