SKREONK! - A Marvel Godzilla Revision

ZeedKZ · Sep 17, 2024

Dedicated to character that is Hulk if he was Godzilla. The current profile is very empty, with simple descriptions for his powers and feats, plus there is a lot of lacking stuff. Hopefully, this CRT covers them all.

Powers & Abilities

As I said, the current Marvelzilla profile is very lacking, thus I reworked on abilities that are already present, and proposed new ones. Take a look at the whole thing. I've removed the "Possibly Regeneration (Low)", as Godzilla got past through the injury through willpower rather than healing, as well Absorption and Energy / Light Manipulation as Godzilla didn't directly absorbed radiation (although he was mutated from it) and the radioactive breath isn't treated as energy nor light unlike his previous iteration.

Innate Abilities:

Resistance to:

Under Pym Particles:

All previous abilities and resistances at a lower degree, and minus Large Size (Type 2) and Vibration Manipulation.

Small Size (Type 1 - Initially as small as a sewer rat) to Large Size (Type 0 - Grew up to twenty feet)

Godzilla, Magic and Gamma

Well, this is the part that I questioned the most during my rereading of this story, but which at least, in my view, manages to make some sense.

Godzilla's origin in this iteration (similarly to his previous incarnation, on which he himself is based) is through a mutation after an underwater nuclear test, in which Leviathan was awakened and radiologically mutated by the radiation released by this hydrogen bomb, resulting in a colossal green monster that gets more powerful the angrier it becomes (sounds familiar, doesn't it?). Well, during one of the processes of this weapon, the explosion produces gamma rays in high amounts (as well as alpha and beta radiation). Gamma radiation acts as ionizing radiation (which is why hydrogen bombs are so feared, apart from their energy potential), the same as that produced during the fission stage of nuclear radiation, and is also emitted by radioactive nuclei after the detonation of a hydrogen bomb, well, I think you know what I'm getting at.

The Hulk we know received gamma from a gamma bomb instead of the hydrogen bomb (I believe this also applies to the rest of the Gamma Mutates), but given the high amounts of gamma rays present in nuclear bombs, I believe that Godzilla's mutation is also derived from this type of ionizing radiation. Godzilla's radiation is consistently treated as highly nuclear and radioactive, to the point where it can even damage and destroy temporal technology, such as Doctor Doom's time machine, even when he was present in a different time period. His radioactivity is also cited as “magic” during the arc with Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur, but that's likely the weakest of the evidences here.

My proposal here is to give Basic Magic to Godzilla through his possible ties to gamma radiation from nuclear mutation.

Smallzilla Adjustment

His current 1st key is based off a part of the story where Godzilla was exposed to the Pym Particles, shrinking down massively. This arc lasts for four issues (#17-#21), and this key is listed as solid 5-B for overwhelming the Fantastic Four, however, Godzilla's power is relative to his size throughout those issues, even starting wrestling with a sewer rat, whom he only killed with his radioactive breath. So taking his peak power doesn't feel right. The key should be moved to his 2nd key (as it is a secondary-state), and be renamed to "Under Pym Particles".

Varies (After being exposed to the Pym Particles, Godzilla shrinked massively in size, but as the effects were temporarily, he eventually grew up to his original size in a slow place). Below Average Human level (Way smaller than a human and got easily captured, although could harm Gabe Jones with a bite. Fought against a sewer rat, and managed to kill it with a radioactive breath) to Wall level (Has the same size of Robert Takiguchi, a 12-year old kid, although twice as heavy and ten times as ferocious. Vaporized part of a wooden fence. Overpowered Gabe Jones and Dum Dum Dugan with a tail swipe after growing to almost seven feet), Planet level at larger sizes (Fought against The Thing and Human Torch simultaneously. Destroyed Invisible Woman's forcefield. Fought against the Devil Dinosaur, lasting more than any of his previous foes, and overpowered him), higher with Rage Power

Statistics

I've made a draft about a few stats that I found incomplete.

Stamina: Superhuman (Godzilla can push past deadly wounds through sheer rage and willpower, including Tony Stark's light cannon, Beta-Beast's venomous fire, and Thor's Mjolnir. Pursued Batragon from the North Pacific ocean to the Aleutian islands. Although feeling great pain, Godzilla could stand and fire his radioactive breath after being exposed to massive amounts of chloroform gas before succumbing)

Intelligence: Below Average normally, Gifted in combat and strategy (Godzilla can comprehend human and even alien language. He is sentient enough to grab a steel pipe and use it as a whip, and immediately react to Dum Dum's Angel Squad. Godzilla could realize Dum Dum's plan to trick him into falling to the water even while being distracted with light. He purposely aided Dum Dum and Gabe Jones against Dr. Demonicus and was already scheming a vengeance plan after it. The moment he felt he would fall off the Grand Canyon from Yetrigar's punch, he stabs him with his claws to bring him down as well. Can use his foes' own abilities against themselves, such as when he killed Rhiahn with his own bio-blades through decapitation the moment he saw him flying to his direction. Could understand the second attempt of being distracted with light, so that he could resist his own instincts. Used Devil Dinosaur's own cunning to surprise and overpower him in combat. Said to be the most dangerous and unpredictable being alive. Godzilla represents a hitherto unknown essence of life and behavior. Is highly unpredictable and definitely the most dangerous living creature on the face of the Earth)

Range: Hundreds of Meters (Stands bigger than the Golden Gate Bridge), up to Interdimensional with radiation (His radiation alone could affect and destroy Doctor Doom's time machine even while being at a different time period)

Mutation Removal

Currently, "Godzilla"s appearance at Iron Man #193-196 is featured, albeit nothing more than a different tabber in the P&A section and a photo in the gallery. And although that creature was probably meant to be Godzilla, the name "Godzilla" was never mentioned in the story (probably due to Marvel losing the rights of the character), it is a mutation created by Doctor Demonicus and... he fights with Iron Man, nothing more than such. Even if it was indeed a Godzilla (which likely is not, considering Demonicus is implied to be the creator, which contradicts the origin estabilished in the original story), I don't think a brief appearance in three issues over a story with 300+ issues would be something worthy to list to our current profile, so it is better to just nuke the mutation away.

GrayCraft_Dragon · Sep 17, 2024

Les go, my boi Zeed cooking something other than Toku

Shadowslash125 · Sep 17, 2024

While I'm not as knowledgeable to Godzilla, from what I've read, this checks out good.

Excellence616 · Sep 17, 2024

Nice work. I agree everything but this:

Godzilla's origin in this iteration (similarly to his previous incarnation, on which he himself is based) is through a mutation after an underwater nuclear test, in which Leviathan was awakened and radiologically mutated by the radiation released by this hydrogen bomb, resulting in a colossal green monster that gets more powerful the angrier it becomes (sounds familiar, doesn't it?). Well, during one of the processes of this weapon, the explosion produces gamma rays in high amounts (as well as alpha and beta radiation). Gamma radiation acts as ionizing radiation (which is why hydrogen bombs are so feared, apart from their energy potential), the same as that produced during the fission stage of nuclear radiation, and is also emitted by radioactive nuclei after the detonation of a hydrogen bomb, well, I think you know what I'm getting at.

How do we know Godzilla radiates gamma energy without using all those physics stuff? Like an inverse confirmation.

The Hulk we know received gamma from a gamma bomb instead of the hydrogen bomb (I believe this also applies to the rest of the Gamma Mutates), but given the high amounts of gamma rays present in nuclear bombs, I believe that Godzilla's mutation is also derived from this type of ionizing radiation. Godzilla's radiation is consistently treated as highly nuclear and radioactive, to the point where it can even damage and destroy temporal technology, such as Doctor Doom's time machine, even when he was present in a different time period.

Because even before Gamma Energy was rectconned to be Magical, majority of the gamma mutates already had some form of connections to magic side of Marvel and still after the retcon, they must have connections to the Green Door.

ZeedKZ said:
His radioactivity is also cited as “magic” during the arc with Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur, but that's likely the weakest of the evidences here.

As you said, the evidence is likely weak. Statements like that have to be consistent and stated by knowledgeable characters.

SamanPatou · Sep 17, 2024

Most of this thread sounds good and reasonable, but I have some qualms about the following points:

Stats Amp is redundant, Rage Power already covers it.
The examples provided for Supernatural Willpower don't seem enough to me, at most they are further examples of Rage Power, since it all comes back to it, and I don't see any example of mental fortitude (the inner resources refer to the beta-beast btw).
I don't see Instinctive Action in that scan, he just reacted very quickly.
Matter and Disease (both manipulation and resistance) feel weird, because while on paper radiations would cause those (alongside a handful of other effects), fiction just use the word radiation very freely and seldom follows a realistic interpretation, whether it comes to exaggeration or downplay. Thus, I would be wary to assign further abilities to something as vague as radiation unless explicitly stated/showed by the source material.
I don't believe Limited Space-Time Manipulation should be given, as it's a bioproduct of the time machine malfunctioning, not Godzilla's radiations themselves.
Statistic Reduction doesn't really work, the heroes were slowed down by the stream of fire, it's physics and damage, not some magical ability actually affecting their speed itself like a spell.
Vibration doesn't qualify because that's a result of sheer weight, and we don't assign it for these reasons unless it greatly exceeds a semi-realistic context. Otherwise, we'd grant it to any character with a certain degree of Large Size or great weight.
Adapting to the Pym gas is fine, but the scans don't say anything about him adapting to the mega-monsters. What tells us he wasn't already strong enough to contend with them, despite the tenfold power boost?
I wouldn't compare Godzilla's breath to the laser, he endured it but then blasted the machine away, he didn't overpower the laser itself with his own breath.
I don't see him resisting Electricity, the narrator says the nets missed him and he received some jolts of electricity, with their power output being unknown and they may be have just been weak or insufficient to start with. Moreover, he might just have destroyed and disabled the transmission towers before being electrocuted, neither the pictures nor the narration implies he even got hit by the electricity.
I don't see him resisting the Beta-Beast's Poison, he is clearly affected by venomous quills but he endures the pain, which is pretty good stamina, but the poison still affects him, and it might not have been deadly to begin with.
Resistance to Fragrance seems exaggerated, the narrator stresses on how nauseating the stench is, but even humans can navigate the sewers while enduring it, and the rat burning just reeks, but doesn't seem to be that lethal or damaging, not beyond human levels.

Finally, I'm very dubious about gamma radiation and magic, because it is a very specific in-verse thing, and we are speaking from a time when such a concept was still far, far away. Besides, we are drawing from an external, "realistic" source, not even an infobox mention, to assume he got hit by gamma energy. From what I see the word gamma is nowhere to be found in any scan, so we don't even have slight implications about it. For me it's a no.

The rest sounds good, though Gifted in combat might be too generous, Above Average sounds more than enough to me. The last three lines about him being dangerous and unpredictable hinge more on his terrible strength, powers and survivability, rather than any particular form of cunning.

ZeedKZ · Sep 17, 2024

For now, I'll concede about Godzilla having magic through gamma. There is no in-story statement of Godzilla directly using gamma, but rather radiation from nuclear bombs and I recognize it is questionable and a bit stretching, just made sense in my head.

SamanPatou said:
Stats Amp is redundant, Rage Power already covers it.

Noted.

SamanPatou said:
The examples provided for Supernatural Willpower don't seem enough to me, at most they are further examples of Rage Power, since it all comes back to it, and I don't see any example of mental fortitude (the inner resources refer to the beta-beast btw).

But he is exceeding his own limits and going past deadly wounds through such rage, and extreme pain tolerance is something that can qualify for Supernatural Willpower. There is two statements of resorting to inner resources, the first is indeed to the Beta-Beast ("For a moment, he seems to be winning that struggle... but his opponent clearly harbors resources yet to be tapped!"), but the second is about Godzilla ("The Beta-Beast presses his attack with a blast of real fire... and Godzilla knows he will die on this barren plain... unless he retaliates in kind! He must draw upon an inner strength, tap hidden resources... he must summon courage. He must succumb to rage! Courage and rage: The keys to life.")

I've proposed this with the "inner strength, resources" in mind, and the fact he can go past extreme pain and even eventual death, which sounds more than Rage Power at least to me.

SamanPatou said:
I don't see Instinctive Action in that scan, he just reacted very quickly.

Fair.

SamanPatou said:
Matter and Disease (both manipulation and resistance) feel weird, because while on paper radiations would cause those (alongside a handful of other effects), fiction just use the word radiation very freely and seldom follows a realistic interpretation, whether it comes to exaggeration or downplay. Thus, I would be wary to assign further abilities to something as vague as radiation unless explicitly stated/showed by the source material.

The thing is that everything about Godzilla's character is directly tied to radiation, moreso to the '54 iteration, but even Marvelzilla is constantly portrayed as extremely and dangerously radioactive, his origin stems from his mutation from a nuclear test, according to Dr. Takiguchi (who has more knowledge on Godzilla than any other character in the story). I don't think referring his nature as "highly radioactive" would put any weight to the story if it just extends to manipulating radio waves at a basic level, not counting how his radioactive operates at otherwordly levels given what he did to Doctor Doom's time machine.

SamanPatou said:
I don't believe Limited Space-Time Manipulation should be given, as it's a bioproduct of the time machine malfunctioning, not Godzilla's radiations themselves.

Noted.

SamanPatou said:
Statistic Reduction doesn't really work, the heroes were slowed down by the stream of fire, it's physics and damage, not some magical ability actually affecting their speed itself like a spell.

Noted, but wouldn't Human Torch being unfazed by that imply something?

SamanPatou said:
Vibration doesn't qualify because that's a result of sheer weight, and we don't assign it for these reasons unless it greatly exceeds a semi-realistic context. Otherwise, we'd grant it to any character with a certain degree of Large Size or great weight.

Noted.

SamanPatou said:
Adapting to the Pym gas is fine, but the scans don't say anything about him adapting to the mega-monsters. What tells us he wasn't already strong enough to contend with them, despite the tenfold power boost?

One issue before (#13), the Mega-Monsters were shown to contend fairly, although Godzilla still had the upper ground, and in that issue (#14), Godzilla was more getting past their new power amp through combat, like slowly becoming stronger as they fought them, but that could be due to his Rage Power as well so I might concede on that one.

SamanPatou said:
I wouldn't compare Godzilla's breath to the laser, he endured it but then blasted the machine away, he didn't overpower the laser itself with his own breath.

Fair, I could swear that Gabe compared both attacks.

SamanPatou said:
I don't see him resisting Electricity, the narrator says the nets missed him and he received some jolts of electricity, with their power output being unknown and they may be have just been weak or insufficient to start with. Moreover, he might just have destroyed and disabled the transmission towers before being electrocuted, neither the pictures nor the narration implies he even got hit by the electricity.

It says he received "several glancing jolts of electricity", and even if Godzilla had received just 1/3 of what he was meant to be exposed, it would at least still be a fair amount of electricity, considering Dum Dum was worried for Hercules when he fell to the water.

SamanPatou said:
I don't see him resisting the Beta-Beast's Poison, he is clearly affected by venomous quills but he endures the pain, which is pretty good stamina, but the poison still affects him, and it might not have been deadly to begin with.

Wouldn't the exposure to the venom even with extreme pain be something worth of a resistance? And it doesn't feel right to not label the poison as deadly, as the story does portrays as ("Indeed, the Beta-Beast is apparently some sort of alien "porcupine"... but one whose quills are considerably more deadly! Godzilla reels in agony, his body wracked with venomous fire."), he overcame both the venom and the fire through the rage amp he received;

SamanPatou said:
Resistance to Fragrance seems exaggerated, the narrator stresses on how nauseating the stench is, but even humans can navigate the sewers while enduring it, and the rat burning just reeks, but doesn't seem to be that lethal or damaging, not beyond human levels.

Yes, but Godzilla does have a stronger awareness to smell, and even while under such smell, he could still fight and get out of that sewer eventually.

SamanPatou said:
The rest sounds good, though Gifted in combat might be too generous, Above Average sounds more than enough to me. The last three lines about him being dangerous and unpredictable hinge more on his terrible strength, powers and survivability, rather than any particular form of cunning.

Fair enough.

AkumaNoHissatsu · Sep 17, 2024

seems good to me

SamanPatou · Sep 17, 2024

ZeedKZ said:
But he is exceeding his own limits and going past deadly wounds through such rage, and extreme pain tolerance is something that can qualify for Supernatural Willpower. There is two statements of resorting to inner resources, the first is indeed to the Beta-Beast ("For a moment, he seems to be winning that struggle... but his opponent clearly harbors resources yet to be tapped!"), but the second is about Godzilla ("The Beta-Beast presses his attack with a blast of real fire... and Godzilla knows he will die on this barren plain... unless he retaliates in kind! He must draw upon an inner strength, tap hidden resources... he must summon courage. He must succumb to rage! Courage and rage: The keys to life.") I've proposed this with the "inner strength, resources" in mind, and the fact he can go past extreme pain and even eventual death, which sounds more than Rage Power at least to me.

We used to have Awakened Power, which would fit this case perfectly, but now it's been integrated into Statistics Amplification, though we still have a redirect. Tbf and thinking about it, I might see room for Supernatural Willpower, it reminds be, sort of, of Spidey lifting the machinery through sheer willpower.

ZeedKZ said:
The thing is that everything about Godzilla's character is directly tied to radiation, moreso to the '54 iteration, but even Marvelzilla is constantly portrayed as extremely and dangerously radioactive, his origin stems from his mutation from a nuclear test, according to Dr. Takiguchi (who has more knowledge on Godzilla than any other character in the story). I don't think referring his nature as "highly radioactive" would put any weight to the story if it just extends to manipulating radio waves at a basic level, not counting how his radioactive operates at otherwordly levels given what he did to Doctor Doom's time machine.

It is correct, but radiations in fiction and especially superhero comics are a very vague concept, they don't abide to the natural laws and can be used for anything, basically. That's why assuming they have the exact same effect as they have in real life is dangerous, they generally finally the trope of mutation and poisoning, which are already covered by the Radiation Manipulation page (just like other pages encompass subpowers), so I find it odd to go fish for something as precise as Matter Manipulation, especially without any reference in the story.

ZeedKZ said:
Noted, but wouldn't Human Torch being unfazed by that imply something?

That's the Human Torch resisting heat and radiations, kinda like having Iceman go through a blizzard while the remaining X-Men are slowed down by the cold.

ZeedKZ said:
One issue before (#13), the Mega-Monsters were shown to contend fairly, although Godzilla still had the upper ground, and in that issue (#14), Godzilla was more getting past their new power amp through combat, like slowly becoming stronger as they fought them, but that could be due to his Rage Power as well so I might concede on that one.

I'm not sure, because on paper it makes sense, but my conservative instinct prompts me to search more for statements or else of Godzilla adapting or augmenting his strength, because it would also be quite the leap in power (10x). possibly even affecting his AP, while the story seems to have him being the same as before, with the megas just angrier.

ZeedKZ said:
Fair, I could swear that Gabe compared both attacks.

Ot says the laser met his match, but it's juxtaposed to the scene of Godzilla blasting the machine, not the beam.

ZeedKZ said:
It says he received "several glancing jolts of electricity", and even if Godzilla had received just 1/3 of what he was meant to be exposed, it would at least still be a fair amount of electricity, considering Dum Dum was worried for Hercules when he fell to the water.

Godzilla's still a big boi, and we don't know what fraction go electric power he received, maybe it wasn't enough to hurt him, or it did, but not visibly because it was too little.

ZeedKZ said:
Wouldn't the exposure to the venom even with extreme pain be something worth of a resistance? And it doesn't feel right to not label the poison as deadly, as the story does portrays as ("Indeed, the Beta-Beast is apparently some sort of alien "porcupine"... but one whose quills are considerably more deadly! Godzilla reels in agony, his body wracked with venomous fire."), he overcame both the venom and the fire through the rage amp he received;

Deadly because the stabbed him throughout the body, and might eventually have killed him. The venom might be like that of a wasp. one stings hurts a human, 100 hurt you lot, 300 or whatever kill you, something like that.
To be resisting the Poison Godzilla should either be unaffected, survive what was supposed to be lethal or else, because what I see here is him suffering immensely (as the narrator also says), but pushing through it thanks to strength and gut (or willpower, as above), but still suffering the effects.

ZeedKZ said:
Yes, but Godzilla does have a stronger awareness to smell, and even while under such smell, he could still fight and get out of that sewer eventually.

Having a stronger smell doesn't necessarily correlate to higher weakness, especially in fiction, where it is generally integrated in the story just to apply a weakness, like with Daredevil. Still, even humans can push through even worse odors.

Btw, I forgot to mention I have some doubts regarding Red Ronin's sword being used as a form of resistance to Heat. Godzilla was slashed and hurt, he even fell down, so he was clearly affected by the heat. He didn't die because it wasn't a killing blow, but the fact he was damaged badly means he did not resist it.

ZeedKZ · Sep 17, 2024

Alright, would resistance to diseases stay as he submerged into sewer water and wrestled against a rat?

SamanPatou · Sep 18, 2024

Sure, at least a likely is totally deserved.

ZeedKZ · Sep 21, 2024

SKREONK! - A Marvel Godzilla Revision

ZeedKZ

Powers & Abilities

Godzilla, Magic and Gamma

Smallzilla Adjustment

Statistics

Mutation Removal

GrayCraft_Dragon

Shadowslash125

Excellence616

SamanPatou

ZeedKZ

AkumaNoHissatsu

SamanPatou

ZeedKZ

SamanPatou

ZeedKZ

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SKREONK! - A Marvel Godzilla Revision

Powers & Abilities​

Godzilla, Magic and Gamma​

Smallzilla Adjustment​

Statistics​

Mutation Removal​

Similar threads

Powers & Abilities

Godzilla, Magic and Gamma

Smallzilla Adjustment

Statistics

Mutation Removal