Size ain't allat (Naruto Big Booms)

[Ghostimuscrime]

We are here with the ten tails feats at last! Overhauled a bunch of these feats to my liking because I felt like some important aspects of them weren’t considered, the overall goal with these particular sets of calculations is to index and highlight how powerful they are as feats rather than just relying on big sizes, not much to explain here since I believe I’ve elaborated quite well on the blogs themselves, there are major method swaps for the first two feats and the third one is just important enough to warrant a careful look either way imo, the old calculations are linked at the top of the first two calculation blogs so with all that outta the way let us discuss!

Ten Tails Bijuubomb Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

[Accepted]

Ten Tails Tenpenchii Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

[EQ End Accepted]

Obito Raises The God Tree

vsbattles.fandom.com

[Accepted]

Agree : Floxy178 (All but Deathbattle End in 1st Calc), Drite77 (Earthquake End for Tenpenchii)
Disagree : Floxy178 (Deathbattle End in 1st Calc)
Neutral :

 

[Damage3245]

This is a Calc Group thread everyone; regular users should not be commenting here unless it is something relevant to the calcs. We don't need to fill up the thread with comments that don't contribute.

 

[Kachon123]

My biggest concern with the first calc is that perspective likely invalidates any direct pixel scaling between the Frost Country and the JBB. Pixel scaling only works when the objects being compared are on the same depth plane, and that clearly isn’t the case here.

While the angle of the Frost Country’s diameter being slightly skewed is a relatively minor issue on its own, the main problem is depth. The Frost Country is shown much closer to the viewer, while the JBB is happening far in the background. The explosion’s pixel size is being compressed by depth, making it appear much smaller than it would be if it were actually aligned with the Frost Country.

I guess it could work as a lowball, but I'm just wondering if there are any alternative methods.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I guess it could work as a lowball, but I'm just wondering if there are any alternative methods.

I guess some peeps might be able to goon with horizon distance formulas but I'd ideally prioritize what is safer over the big numbers

 

[Kachon123]

Something else I noticed about the first calc is that it cites the Frost Country's diameter as being 865.69 km using this blog, but the second calc redoes the same pixel scaling but gets much much bigger results, getting a diameter of 1149.52 km:

249.39 px = 5040 km (Konoha Suna Distance)

56.9 px = 1149.52 km (Frost Country Diameter)

Unless I'm missing something, I'd recommend using the already evaluate and accepted 865.69 km value for all of the calcs for consistency's sake.

---

Also about the second calc, the pixel scaling of the Frost Country inflates the result God Tree's parameters:

The Frost Country's diameter is shown by the pink line, but as you can see it doesn't actually measure it in its totality. For all we know the Frost Country could be much bigger than what is shown in the panel and failing to account for that makes everything around it seem much larger than they actually are. This page supports the idea that the Frost Country is much larger than what the pixel scaling in the blog suggests as it extends much further.

As for the tornado part, Rotational KE would probably be more accurate than using standard KE, but that's a bit nitpick-y so it's not that important

 

[Floxy178]

My biggest concern with the first calc is that perspective likely invalidates any direct pixel scaling between the Frost Country and the JBB. Pixel scaling only works when the objects being compared are on the same depth plane, and that clearly isn’t the case here.

While the angle of the Frost Country’s diameter being slightly skewed is a relatively minor issue on its own, the main problem is depth. The Frost Country is shown much closer to the viewer, while the JBB is happening far in the background. The explosion’s pixel size is being compressed by depth, making it appear much smaller than it would be if it were actually aligned with the Frost Country.

I guess it could work as a lowball, but I'm just wondering if there are any alternative methods.

Yeah, it's a lowball as reference object is closer, but even reverse of it is acceptable to a degree as that's what measuring with planet curvature calcs do.

I'll look into this thread later btw.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Something else I noticed about the first calc is that it cites the Frost Country's diameter as being 865.69 km using this blog, but the second calc redoes the same pixel scaling but gets much much bigger results, getting a diameter of 1149.52 km:
Unless I'm missing something, I'd recommend using the already evaluate and accepted 865.69 km value for all of the calcs for consistency's sake.
Also about the second calc, the pixel scaling of the Frost Country inflates the result God Tree's parameters:
The Frost Country's diameter is shown by the pink line, but as you can see it doesn't actually measure it in its totality. For all we know the Frost Country could be much bigger than what is shown in the panel and failing to account for that makes everything around it seem much larger than they actually are. This page supports the idea that the Frost Country is much larger than what the pixel scaling in the blog suggests as it extends much further.

The God Tree Parameters are already lowballed, the 800kmish value comes from where both the map and country shots use ends that jut in the most to give the least possible diameter (mid section) 's value for when we calculate bijuubombs

One thing you need to understand is that if a large object is picked as the measuring stick the values get deflated down below, if we select a small object as the measuring stick everything will have bigger calculated sizes

but in the god tree shots we extract a bigger diameter from the map but all the same assign it to the bigger diameter end in the country shot which deflates whatever inflation could have happened, for me to apply the 800 km value which is the most jutted inward diameter the equivalent would be to assign it to the shortest diameter in the country shot (red line), however unlike the shots for the bijuubomb we can't use the mid section because part of it is destroyed by the tenpenchii, as you know taking a smaller value as that results in inflation but even if I assigned it to the next shortest end (see 345 px line) the value would still be greater than what I have used in the blogs

1149.52 km / 503.35 px = 2.28373894904 km per pixel
865.69 km / 345 px = 2.50924637681 km per pixel

So it was lowballed to begin with, as for the other shot you have shown trying to claim it stretches further than alluded does not hold up due to it being angled to view the horizon rather than the nigh-satellite like shots like the one used, or the ones like madara's raindrop shot / kaguya's earth face shot which all of them consistently portray it to be a thin stretch of land, Lastly the pink line accounts for the whole diameter because the part you see it ending at is the ocean, I know it looks the same color as the clouds which might confuse you into thinking the last bit is covered but it is not, it ends there the same way the mid section ends with the roots dipping into the sea

As for the tornado part, Rotational KE would probably be more accurate than using standard KE, but that's a bit nitpick-y so it's not that important

 

[Floxy178]

Method itself seems fine, I'll also comment as soon as I evaluate the math.

Ghost is right that colored version confuses water as clouds, which is clear if you either look at uncolored one or the other shot Kachon linked.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Method itself seems fine, I'll also comment as soon as I evaluate the math.

Ghost is right that colored version confuses water as clouds, which is clear if you either look at uncolored one or the other shot Kachon linked.

Thanks for the eval, would you mind tagging @Drite77 & @Naito-desu as we need a lil more evaluation

 

[Floxy178]

@Drite77 @Naito-desu would any of you guys mind giving opinion on this?

 

[Drite77]

Give me a few hours, I'll play a TTRPG in a few mins

 

[Drite77]

For the 1st feat, I'm not so sure about any theoritical destruction or about the DB method (I didn't see anything being sent flying).

For the 2nd feat, if the Ten-Tails caused the Earthquake, I'm fine with it, but I'm not sure about the Tree being scaled to LS.

For the 3rd feat, I have the same concern, why would the Tree's creation scale to anyone in both AP and LS?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Will response to the first in an elaborate manner in a bit, the second and third are just Obito moving it physically with the ten tails, it's like raising your hand and calculating the KE and LS of manipulating the mass of your hand

 

[Damage3245]

I'm currently not in favor of the "Obito Raises The God Tree Calc" because to my understanding, the God Tree isn't just moving from Point A to Point B, but it is growing from that initial spot until it reaches its fully size. That means the mass of it is constantly changing from through the timeframe of it starting to grow and it ending up in its finished state. Obito isn't physically moving a set mass all at once.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm currently not in favor of the "Obito Raises The God Tree Calc" because to my understanding, the God Tree isn't just moving from Point A to Point B, but it is growing from that initial spot until it reaches its fully size. That means the mass of it is constantly changing from through the timeframe of it starting to grow and it ending up in its finished state. Obito isn't physically moving a set mass all at once.

KE is not dependant on distance travelled, it relies on velocity, the calculated speed applies to both the low mass and high mass instances of the feat, what it does not qualify for is GPE as that's where distance becomes relevant

 

[Naito-desu]

Not so sure about the mass ejection either in the first calc

 

[Floxy178]

By the way, for the KE part of 1st feat, I currently disagree with it. At first I thought explosion should push everything at the same speed and it doesn't matter whether it gets vaporized until reaching measured distance, but now I don't see it as an reasonable assumption.

I'm currently not in favor of the "Obito Raises The God Tree Calc" because to my understanding, the God Tree isn't just moving from Point A to Point B, but it is growing from that initial spot until it reaches its fully size. That means the mass of it is constantly changing from through the timeframe of it starting to grow and it ending up in its finished state. Obito isn't physically moving a set mass all at once.

As Ghost already said, it doesn't matter as if its mass is growing then its KE grows from 0 to KE that's calculated. So at the very last moment it'll reach that KE. Its middle travels half of distance, but within half of timeframe, etc.

 

[JPro_3002]

For the Juubidama calc, would using the last method we did not be better? It obtains the distance from Frost-HQ using the map and angsizes the size from there, and doesn't rely on pixel scaling of something several mountain ranges away.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

For the Juubidama calc, would using the last method we did not be better? It obtains the distance from Frost-HQ using the map and angsizes the size from there, and doesn't rely on pixel scaling of something several mountain ranges away.

Different feat

 

[PhantomØ4]

Hi. Sorry to intrude but I really wanna know if the wasted energy method applied in the first calc generally accepted? Effectively calculating attacks and structures by energy density.

 

[Drite77]

Hi. Sorry to intrude but I really wanna know if the wasted energy method applied in the first calc generally accepted? Effectively calculating attacks and structures by energy density.

Unsure tbh, otherwise we would see more of it around

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

By the way, for the KE part of 1st feat, I currently disagree with it. At first I thought explosion should push everything at the same speed and it doesn't matter whether it gets vaporized until reaching measured distance, but now I don't see it as an reasonable assumption.

For the 1st feat, I'm not so sure about any theoritical destruction or about the DB method (I didn't see anything being sent flying).

I was gonna write up a bit of extended explanation about the ejection of things to explain it better to Drite but as Floxy pointed out there is a bit of an issue with assuming the speeds being similar and after having a bit of talk with him off site, I decided I'll try to work on that part later and for now I feel like a good replacement is just finding the KE of the lone mountain seen here at the top, how does that sound to y'all?

Not so sure about the mass ejection either in the first calc

Btw are you fine with the other two calcs? (at least method wise)

 

[Drite77]

how does that sound to y'all?

I'll be completely honest here, and I'll already apologize if this sounds rude or an attack towards you, I do not want that to be the case, but I personally think this is akin to trying to make a feat higher then it should be.

From what I could gather, The Bijuu Bombs are accepted to vaporize anything they touch, this is already much more then what other series can achieve with an explosion, I think calculating that lonely rock formation going up in the air sounds like a weird way to try to upgrade this calculation when, once again, very few series would actually attempt that, let alone have that method accepted.

If other CGMs think that is a reasonable assumption, that's fine and you're allowed to do the calculation, I won't reject or fight against someone who accepted it, but personally, once again, I think this is going too far just to make the feat have a higher number

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I think this is going too far just to make the feat have a higher number

I'm sorry what?
If the characters have canonically performed the feat on screen and I don't index something they actually have shown to have done, is that not just downplaying it?

Like I know the calculation of the whole cylindrical volume of the surface being ejected is a bit assumptive but I changed it to something shown outright happening, I don't get how that's wrong of me to aim for?

 

[PhantomØ4]

I'm sorry what?
If the characters have canonically performed the feat on screen and I don't index something they actually have shown to have done, is that not just downplaying it?

Like I know the calculation of the whole cylindrical volume of the surface being ejected is a bit assumptive but I changed it to something shown outright happening, I don't get how that's wrong of me to aim for?

I would say that at the very least the method is flawed as the method would seem to imply explosions engulf the total volume before vaporizing the matter that they engulfed when in reality the blast's edge/shock front vaporizes the ground as it travels and not the "fireball"... the energy behind the shock front is not equal to the shock front, it doesn't magically leave all of its energy behind. That's without accounting for the fact that ground bursts cause some level of ground reflection to the energy which usually causes explosions to cover AoE's that south otherwise be almost twice as small.

I'm sure there is some way to account for energy "wasted" but it may be overly complicated and probably not the energy density method used.

 

[Drite77]

I'm sorry what?
If the characters have canonically performed the feat on screen and I don't index something they actually have shown to have done, is that not just downplaying it?

Like I know the calculation of the whole cylindrical volume of the surface being ejected is a bit assumptive but I changed it to something shown outright happening, I don't get how that's wrong of me to aim for?

So like, you'll have to account for the timeframe for that rock ending in that position, how long did it took? We can't really answer that with certainty, is it 1 second because it is 1 panel? Is it 5 seconds because it could've taken some time? Is it 1 minute because there's a chance that rock wasn't exactly superfast? There is a lot of assumptions need to be taken for that rock alone.

This more then just "The characters performed the feat cannonically", it is "We're going to use an assumption we can't really prove it is correct", of course calculations are made using several assumptions, but time is a very volatile one. Once again, if only 1 other CGM voices support of that method and no other voices opposition, I won't fight for it because ultimately it is about a series I don't really care about that much outside of making matchups for the Tier 8-7 peeps, I just gave my personal opinion about the subject

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

So like, you'll have to account for the timeframe for that rock ending in that position, how long did it took? We can't really answer that with certainty, is it 1 second because it is 1 panel? Is it 5 seconds because it could've taken some time? Is it 1 minute because there's a chance that rock wasn't exactly superfast? There is a lot of assumptions need to be taken for that rock alone.

This more then just "The characters performed the feat cannonically", it is "We're going to use an assumption we can't really prove it is correct", of course calculations are made using several assumptions, but time is a very volatile one. Once again, if only 1 other CGM voices support of that method and no other voices opposition, I won't fight for it because ultimately it is about a series I don't really care about that much outside of making matchups for the Tier 8-7 peeps, I just gave my personal opinion about the subject

timeframe assumptions are standard here so that's not really an issue, anyways if you're not opposing it I won't drag it out

 

[Damage3245]

I think the "Death Battle" end of the current calc needs a re-do as you've said. It is assuming a lot that the calculated volume of material across the entire surface area of where the Biju Bomb hit, down to a depth of average elevation, travelled that high upwards.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I think the "Death Battle" end of the current calc needs a re-do as you've said. It is assuming a lot that the calculated volume of material across the entire surface area of where the Biju Bomb hit, down to a depth of average elevation, travelled that high upwards.

I was gonna write up a bit of extended explanation about the ejection of things to explain it better to Drite but as Floxy pointed out there is a bit of an issue with assuming the speeds being similar and after having a bit of talk with him off site, I decided I'll try to work on that part later and for now I feel like a good replacement is just finding the KE of the lone mountain seen here at the top, how does that sound to y'all?

I've dropped pushing for it, the current end in the DB End is something I'll cross out, that's why I proposed replacing it with finding KE of just the lone mountain instead of the whole thing

 

[Floxy178]

how does that sound to y'all?

Yeah that'd be much better than whole mass ejection assumption.

I understand that we prefer working with the least assumptions, but we're not choosing one over other, that's something performed on top of vaporization. Therefore we should evaluate it and its assumption individually. The existence of a part of the feat that is less assumptive should not make us disregard the other part.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Snip

Snip

Snip

Sup, Updated the first calc with a more concrete end (end 4) , can y'all check it out

Ten Tails Bijuubomb Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Floxy178]

I've evaluated it.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The Tenpenchii and Obito's Calc have been evaluated, I just need a second vote for the the first calc's method addition (end 4) and then we can conclude ts (damage save me man)

EDIT : FIRST CALC ACCEPTED TOO, IM FREE AT LAST